SOUTHEND - 2
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Age: 43
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, personally I think the station is a red herring and they've probably received bad advice based on the price they've paid.
This study is interesting for Southend...
http://www.eastofenglandobservatory....rt%20Study.pdf
This study is interesting for Southend...
http://www.eastofenglandobservatory....rt%20Study.pdf
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southend
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the station could be a red herring too, with ES plans for a freight hub with slf added on are they incorporating a new siding for freight trains ;-)....
At the end of the day SEN's probs will always be capacity and market share..
Someone needs to give it a real USP like Farnborough has done with Exec Av then it stands a fighting chance. In the mean time good runway for training and ATC Lasham.
At the end of the day SEN's probs will always be capacity and market share..
Someone needs to give it a real USP like Farnborough has done with Exec Av then it stands a fighting chance. In the mean time good runway for training and ATC Lasham.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Middlesesx
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not think the locals are too keen on an expansion and there are no plans for sidings, besides the size of a/c using SEN I doubt it would warrant frieght trains. You are correct that it needs someone with skills, a vision and willing to go for it and put the money in. At this momemt the airport cannot be making enough to pay the wages. I believe the good news is that Ford are soon to recommence three days a week?
There is no prospect of a rail siding at SEN simply because there is not, and never will be, a requirement for such a facility. Even if the proposed runway extension comes about (and that is a big 'if' still) there is no prospect of mainline freighters being able to operate into SEN. All that is likely to result is growth in the express package/urgent freight traffic using aircraft up to ATP size.
It is worth bearing in mind that Ford had planned last Spring, before the motor industry woes began, a twice daily freighter service to Romania following their purchase of the Craiovia car company.
As far as the station becoming a reality is concerned, we obviously won't have long to wait to see if it goes ahead. I'm assured that it will, but I've been involved with SEN for over 45 years, so ...........
It is worth bearing in mind that Ford had planned last Spring, before the motor industry woes began, a twice daily freighter service to Romania following their purchase of the Craiovia car company.
As far as the station becoming a reality is concerned, we obviously won't have long to wait to see if it goes ahead. I'm assured that it will, but I've been involved with SEN for over 45 years, so ...........
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Age: 43
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Expressflight
As far as the station becoming a reality is concerned, we obviously won't have long to wait to see if it goes ahead. I'm assured that it will, but I've been involved with SEN for over 45 years, so ...........
As far as the station becoming a reality is concerned, we obviously won't have long to wait to see if it goes ahead. I'm assured that it will, but I've been involved with SEN for over 45 years, so ...........
I like this Southend forum, full of grounded people recognising the difficulties of the business instead of forums full of deluded people hoping their local airport will be the next LHR!
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 67
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would suggest in the immediate future Stobarts's energy will be focused on Carlisle as they have just recently been granted planning permission to move their headquarters there and do some improvements.
I think Stobarts intentions at CAX are twofold, with the main one being the construction of a new HQ and warehouse on the airfield and it is only that which has needed, and was recently given, planning approval.
As far as the airfield itself is concerned they seem to have reduced their aims to resurfacing the runway and converting a recently built hangar into a passenger terminal. In other words, they will do just sufficient to enable the establishment of a passenger service to London, with SEN as the destination, which seems to be one of their main ambitions for CAX in the short term.
As far as the station at SEN is concerned, all I can say is that Alastair Welch (who is no fool) sees it as being the key to future success in attracting passenger services. If a CAX-SEN schedule is established, either under Stobart livery or by another operator, it could well act as a catalyst to demonstrate SEN's ability to serve London. After all, the transit times from touchdown to arrival in central London by train will be virtually identical for SEN, STN and LTN so I cannot agree with the "red herring" comments.
As far as the airfield itself is concerned they seem to have reduced their aims to resurfacing the runway and converting a recently built hangar into a passenger terminal. In other words, they will do just sufficient to enable the establishment of a passenger service to London, with SEN as the destination, which seems to be one of their main ambitions for CAX in the short term.
As far as the station at SEN is concerned, all I can say is that Alastair Welch (who is no fool) sees it as being the key to future success in attracting passenger services. If a CAX-SEN schedule is established, either under Stobart livery or by another operator, it could well act as a catalyst to demonstrate SEN's ability to serve London. After all, the transit times from touchdown to arrival in central London by train will be virtually identical for SEN, STN and LTN so I cannot agree with the "red herring" comments.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Middlesesx
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can the plan not be eventually to dispose of SEN and build houses on it. ES also have a property portfolio. Irrespective of the ownersuip of the airport and the management of the same the last 10 years has achieved absolutely nothing, least of all in passenger traffic. I cannot see how there is even a catchment area for business people to fly CAX-SEN. CAX is only 45 miles from NCL that has facilities to accept any size of aircraft I believe. I am not aware of any blue chip businesses in the CAX areas, therefore who from SE & Essex will wish to travel there. The flight promise has always been to popular EU destinations of which CAX aint one of them. As for cargo the time this comes about the ATP will have ceased to fly.
SEN needs things to happen fast and now. If the third runway gets the go ahead this month then STN, LTN and LGW will have even more SLOT capacity in the future and likely outcome would see any regional airport plans sunk without trace. Surely ES has got to have some far better and futuristic plans if SEN is to expand. These plans are the sort that used to be written on the back of a fag packet and maybe familiar tp those of us that used to attend Airport / Airline management courses.
SEN needs things to happen fast and now. If the third runway gets the go ahead this month then STN, LTN and LGW will have even more SLOT capacity in the future and likely outcome would see any regional airport plans sunk without trace. Surely ES has got to have some far better and futuristic plans if SEN is to expand. These plans are the sort that used to be written on the back of a fag packet and maybe familiar tp those of us that used to attend Airport / Airline management courses.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 67
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Biggest problem with CAX is the relatively low local population. However realities in time mean from home, the nearest major airport is about 2 1/2 hours travel and at that timing I have the choice of BPL, MAN, NCL, GLA, EDI (just), LPL and for some DTV.
As stated CAX - NCL by road is an hour on a good day.
As stated CAX - NCL by road is an hour on a good day.
Good old HZ123.
I bet if he finds a fiver on the pavement he moans that it isn't a tenner.
The lease of SEN states that it has to be operated as a commercial airfield, so that hits on the head the idea of it becoming a housing estate.
Just what part of the SEN development plan was "written on the back of a fag packet"? When no development has taken place for years people moan about it. When a comprehensive plan is drawn up which would give SEN all the facilities it so obviously lacks at the moment to make it a serious contender as a London airport (a modern terminal with adjacent rail station, an extended runway, a new control tower, an on-site hotel, and an FBO facility) some people still moan about it and deride it as unrealistic.
While it may be true that NCL is only an hour's drive from Carlisle, why does that mean that a direct flight to London from CAX would not succeed? Are the people of Carlisle going to say "oh yes, let's drive across the Pennines to fly out of NCL to London rather than use the airport on our doorstep." I don't think so. Now, if you're talking about additional destinations direct from CAX then I would agree that the potential is very limited, but if the the CAX-SEN service routed on to, say, AMS, and connected with one or two other flights originating at SEN that would make it quite an attractive route. Obviously SEN-CAX traffic would be very limited, so the answer is to have the aircraft nightstop CAX and operate CAX-SEN-AMS-SEN, then a midday rotation to another destination SEN-XXX-SEN, with an afternoon/evening SEN-AMS-SEN-CAX. By nightstopping at CAX you avoid the problem of possible diversions of an early a.m. arrival that CAX's limited approach aids might present, while offering the good people of Carlisle a realistic day return to London. Or is that scenario "back of a fag packet" as well?
As for the threat posed by LTN and STN being a problem, that threat is certainly less than it was a couple of years ago. LTN has abandoned plans for its new runway and STN seem to have put back their plans for a second runway by a number of years. There will be a good few years available for SEN to make its mark before additional runway capacity appears elsewhere in the South-East.
I bet if he finds a fiver on the pavement he moans that it isn't a tenner.
The lease of SEN states that it has to be operated as a commercial airfield, so that hits on the head the idea of it becoming a housing estate.
Just what part of the SEN development plan was "written on the back of a fag packet"? When no development has taken place for years people moan about it. When a comprehensive plan is drawn up which would give SEN all the facilities it so obviously lacks at the moment to make it a serious contender as a London airport (a modern terminal with adjacent rail station, an extended runway, a new control tower, an on-site hotel, and an FBO facility) some people still moan about it and deride it as unrealistic.
While it may be true that NCL is only an hour's drive from Carlisle, why does that mean that a direct flight to London from CAX would not succeed? Are the people of Carlisle going to say "oh yes, let's drive across the Pennines to fly out of NCL to London rather than use the airport on our doorstep." I don't think so. Now, if you're talking about additional destinations direct from CAX then I would agree that the potential is very limited, but if the the CAX-SEN service routed on to, say, AMS, and connected with one or two other flights originating at SEN that would make it quite an attractive route. Obviously SEN-CAX traffic would be very limited, so the answer is to have the aircraft nightstop CAX and operate CAX-SEN-AMS-SEN, then a midday rotation to another destination SEN-XXX-SEN, with an afternoon/evening SEN-AMS-SEN-CAX. By nightstopping at CAX you avoid the problem of possible diversions of an early a.m. arrival that CAX's limited approach aids might present, while offering the good people of Carlisle a realistic day return to London. Or is that scenario "back of a fag packet" as well?
As for the threat posed by LTN and STN being a problem, that threat is certainly less than it was a couple of years ago. LTN has abandoned plans for its new runway and STN seem to have put back their plans for a second runway by a number of years. There will be a good few years available for SEN to make its mark before additional runway capacity appears elsewhere in the South-East.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southend
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good to see Express Flight knows more than he's letting on as usual ;-)
I am under no illusions that the airport will ever become anything other than an airport because thankfully southend & rd councils have a small brain and know when they're onto a good thing!
My only concern is that ES won't go through with the development (note i dont use the word expansion although being a local i'm fully un-opposed).
AW started with grand ideas and look what happened to those.......
Re FordAir... Can't see that reviving in the short term think it maybe too expensive for unhappy US car companies but would be gladly be proved wrong. Ooh weren't Ford looking to replace their two BBj's I did know but that seems to have skipped my mind. Hmm must be the dumb stansted mentallity effecting my brain
CAX is that a real pax option!? Can't see the load factor balancing the books even as one sector prior to SEN - AMS, now mail/small cargo that is an option potentially. Oh and Fedex are using ATR's at the mo reckon they'd be a better option than ATP's from memory they weren't the easiest to operate.........
I am under no illusions that the airport will ever become anything other than an airport because thankfully southend & rd councils have a small brain and know when they're onto a good thing!
My only concern is that ES won't go through with the development (note i dont use the word expansion although being a local i'm fully un-opposed).
AW started with grand ideas and look what happened to those.......
Re FordAir... Can't see that reviving in the short term think it maybe too expensive for unhappy US car companies but would be gladly be proved wrong. Ooh weren't Ford looking to replace their two BBj's I did know but that seems to have skipped my mind. Hmm must be the dumb stansted mentallity effecting my brain
CAX is that a real pax option!? Can't see the load factor balancing the books even as one sector prior to SEN - AMS, now mail/small cargo that is an option potentially. Oh and Fedex are using ATR's at the mo reckon they'd be a better option than ATP's from memory they weren't the easiest to operate.........
The immediate catchment area of CAX comprises a population of 160,000, this being those living within 30 minutes drive of the airport, and for 500,000 people CAX would be their nearest airport. This is according to the recent consultants' report commissioned by Stobarts.
By comparison the respective figures for Newquay are 240,000 and 425,000 so CAX doesn't look too bad as there are similarities between the two locations in terms of employment and tourism potential.
But I do agree that to make CAX-SEN really viable you would need to make it part of a small route network based on SEN which would fully utlilise one aircraft.
I also agree with SENFLYER that the ATR is operationally probably more reliable than the ATP and may be the feeder freighter of the immediate future.
By comparison the respective figures for Newquay are 240,000 and 425,000 so CAX doesn't look too bad as there are similarities between the two locations in terms of employment and tourism potential.
But I do agree that to make CAX-SEN really viable you would need to make it part of a small route network based on SEN which would fully utlilise one aircraft.
I also agree with SENFLYER that the ATR is operationally probably more reliable than the ATP and may be the feeder freighter of the immediate future.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sunny Side Up :)
Age: 60
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And something less enjoyable......
Ford UK have notified their employees that the SEN-CGN shuttle has been closed down and Ford Air will cease to exist.
In future all staff travel between UK HQ and Cologne will be on the Germanwings STN-CGN scheduled service.
Ford UK have notified their employees that the SEN-CGN shuttle has been closed down and Ford Air will cease to exist.
In future all staff travel between UK HQ and Cologne will be on the Germanwings STN-CGN scheduled service.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southend
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its a shame but not entirely unexpected. I think Ford would have trouble justifying flying staff around it in its current sales/financial situation.
I saw something in the Echo about ES plans for the airport but didnt get to read it. Was it anything worthwhile to know or were they just getting excited about the station again? I have to say though its good to see the local press are pro the airport at the moment...
I saw something in the Echo about ES plans for the airport but didnt get to read it. Was it anything worthwhile to know or were they just getting excited about the station again? I have to say though its good to see the local press are pro the airport at the moment...