Virgin - 2
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barké
You have to get used to the idea that the 747 is on the way out.
As for the 747-8, I'll bet you a beer that the pax version will never see service. Right now Lufthansa, the only customer, is talking to Boeing to find a way out.
The F version will struggle on for a few years, but the 747's glory days are well and truly over.
As for the 747-8, I'll bet you a beer that the pax version will never see service. Right now Lufthansa, the only customer, is talking to Boeing to find a way out.
The F version will struggle on for a few years, but the 747's glory days are well and truly over.
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Don't tell Capt. Pprune about the potential for departing 747s at Virgin - he stated soon after starting at Virgin that he wanted to remain on the 400s until his retirement...
Well, if the 787s ever do arrive at least he could stay on a Boeing if he so desired vs. switching to the sidesticks...
Well, if the 787s ever do arrive at least he could stay on a Boeing if he so desired vs. switching to the sidesticks...
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does anyone think this is a precursor to a cancellation for the A380's they have on order?
Nope.
Betcha they cancel the A346s on order though. AND.. I can see them cancelling the 787s too.
I don't just think it's just the 747 that could be on its way out, but also the 787 from quite a few fleet futures as well.
Boeing not only seem to have lost their way with the programme, but also to have lost how to keep it sustained and going forward during engineering difficulties. If they are not careful this sort of announcement could start to spread.
Virgin could have had A330s at any time during the last 15 years, and to go for them now seems to show a major change in fleet planning - just like at their half-owner Singapore Airlines, who recently introduced the same type. Many of the recen A330 orders also have Sweetheart Deals on A350s in the fuure, which would be the potential end for the 787 at Virgin, and noted across the rest of the community.
Boeing not only seem to have lost their way with the programme, but also to have lost how to keep it sustained and going forward during engineering difficulties. If they are not careful this sort of announcement could start to spread.
Virgin could have had A330s at any time during the last 15 years, and to go for them now seems to show a major change in fleet planning - just like at their half-owner Singapore Airlines, who recently introduced the same type. Many of the recen A330 orders also have Sweetheart Deals on A350s in the fuure, which would be the potential end for the 787 at Virgin, and noted across the rest of the community.
Plumbum Pendular
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A330s are the ideal aeroplane for VS, heaven knows why they haven't gone for them before.
They are incredibly efficient, their pilots already know how to fly them, and if they get rid of the 744s then all their pilots flying the one type SHOULD make for incredibly efficient crewing.
They are incredibly efficient, their pilots already know how to fly them, and if they get rid of the 744s then all their pilots flying the one type SHOULD make for incredibly efficient crewing.
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Ms. Spurtle and others,
For those of us who don't know much about the 787 beyond what is read in Flight and typical crew speculation, what about it makes it vulnerable to the axe with Virgin? Obviously it is very late to the game and that disrupts scheduling/planning. Why else would Virgin consider axing the 787? Any thoughts?
BTW, I think the A330 is a brilliant move at these prices and because it is a workhorse for many other British operators across the Pond. It will be perfect for those Orlando trips.
For those of us who don't know much about the 787 beyond what is read in Flight and typical crew speculation, what about it makes it vulnerable to the axe with Virgin? Obviously it is very late to the game and that disrupts scheduling/planning. Why else would Virgin consider axing the 787? Any thoughts?
BTW, I think the A330 is a brilliant move at these prices and because it is a workhorse for many other British operators across the Pond. It will be perfect for those Orlando trips.
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the only reason why a lot of airlines are still just about flying the atlantic as in AL is soley down to the efficent 330's. Getting a lot of stick these days but they are a fine aircraft with an amazing wing. well done virg...good news in appalling mkt condt's....would'nt be suprised if the a380 got pushed out on the long finger.
The main issue for the airline world about the Boeing 787 is that they cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel, cannot see reliability about future delivery dates, and cannot even see that Boeing have got the problems gripped technically. As happens with large organisations there has too long been an emphasis on conformance to original budgets, and then on minimising any additional cost budgets, at the expense of understanding what the engineering issues really require to overcome them, or being given the money to do so.
Word goes around that if Boeing were still headquartered in Seattle, instead of thousands of miles from where the problems are, and if people like old CEO Phil Condit who understand aircraft (and everything else about the business) were still in place rather than a string of jumped-up accountants, things would be a lot different.
Actually the A330-300 that Virgin have ordered is not operated by any other British operators, across the Atlantic or elsewhere. A number of the minor British companies do have the A330-200, a notably shorter and different aircraft. The nearest you get to an A330-300 Transatlantic fleet is the Aer Lingus one. However in the time since they built up this fleet (Aer Lingus were an early adopter of the type in the early 1990s) it has been steadily developed in capability.
& what do you mean by capability? Maybe a couple of tonnes MTOW but otherwise same range of engines + same tanks = same difference bar electric rudders and fancy screens etc
Good move for Virgin - mixed fleet flying 340/330 will help costs, crewing and more choice of routes for the drivers
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"Good move for Virgin - mixed fleet flying 340/330 will help costs, crewing and more choice of routes for the drivers"
That's a good point BRAKES HOT about the choice of routes (a nice side benefit). I am sure the current 400 drivers would probably appreciate some more variety (even though beach time in Antigua or Havana every week wouldn't be bad at all) and vice versa. I am sure Orlando gets a bit old after a few trips...
That's a good point BRAKES HOT about the choice of routes (a nice side benefit). I am sure the current 400 drivers would probably appreciate some more variety (even though beach time in Antigua or Havana every week wouldn't be bad at all) and vice versa. I am sure Orlando gets a bit old after a few trips...
For those of us who don't know much about the 787 beyond what is read in Flight and typical crew speculation, what about it makes it vulnerable to the axe with Virgin? Obviously it is very late to the game and that disrupts scheduling/planning. Why else would Virgin consider axing the 787? Any thoughts?.
Boeing postpones first flight of 787
More reinforcement = more weight on an already overweight aircraft. You also wonder why this was not discovered in computer modelling before, as we are getting on for 2 years now after planned first flight.
It's continuous announcements like this that start purchasers thinking when they should say Enough is Enough.
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I'm hearing that VS are lining up a big A350XWB order to directly replace their B747s. If true this would also make a cancellation of the 787 order more likely. Virgin would have an all Airbus fleet.
It's not just the (ever increasing) delays on the 787 that are the issue. Range is also a factor.
Already much lower than first stated, if the fix for this "structural problem".. (which will probably result in adding Aluminium or Titanium to the airframe).. further increases weight and reduces range then the 787 truly becomes a dead duck.
It's not just the (ever increasing) delays on the 787 that are the issue. Range is also a factor.
Already much lower than first stated, if the fix for this "structural problem".. (which will probably result in adding Aluminium or Titanium to the airframe).. further increases weight and reduces range then the 787 truly becomes a dead duck.