NEWCASTLE - 4

[transwede]

HH6702What are your sources that confirm BA pulling off LGW and Menzies definately starting service at NCL? TOM, TCX, Jet2 and easy all have contracts with other agents presently!

Seems quite possible that DL could start service, but as with everything we shall have to wait! NCL desparately needs new long haul services to keep pace with other regional UK airports.

[ncleflights]

Originally Posted by Smile!!!

As for Delta, yes they are starting new routes to the UK on 757 aircraft, but in 2008 from what ive heard. They are now recieving 14 ex TWA 757 aircraft starting from next June, so too late for 07 summer season.
I do believe that NCL will be one of these routes, that will suposedly be announced in November, a year and a half in advance . Although thay have already announced Cleavland-Paris for 2008, so this may well happen, and keep an eye out

( click on)
http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh=...g_Globally.wmv



It shows NCL on the route map! DIRECT from JFK

If you look carefully non of the `Global Delta` documents on the delta show a planned direct service to ncle from jfk. If you expand the route map it shows that the UK city in question is Manchester. Non of the PDF documents tht go with this route map make a mention of NCL either

[skyman771]

Originally Posted by ncleflights

If you look carefully non of the `Global Delta` documents on the delta show a planned direct service to ncle from jfk.

Glad to note I'm not the only one who has the view that DL at NCL is a non runner.
There is,as far as I have noted not one shred of published data to suggest that NCL is being 'seriously' considered. It has been public record for some time that DL were to aquire 757's for European routes based on the success of the CO model.
What is probably more relevant is that CO's success has been achieved whilst avoiding NCL.
It is areas such as the airports involvement in developing & marketing routes with enerprise agencies such as One North East that are a potential source of information, not any amount of speculating as to where DL will put 14 transatlantic capable 757's from 2007 onwards

[HH6702]

those contracts are up for tender at the minute so all 3 hand agents are fighting for them.

I still belive that we will get new york for s07.

it may not start till july/aug but we will get it!

[skyman771]

Originally Posted by HH6702

I still belive that we will get new york for s07.
it may not start till july/aug but we will get it!

Hmmm........ suggestions just seem to be getting ever more absurd. Why on earth would any suitably organised carrier wish to start a service half way through the summer ?
Quite apart from throwing away critical revenue, it would be a marketing nightmare, public confusion coupled with an inability to fully include in summer brochures..........

[CentreFix25]

Got to agree with skyman, NY not going to happen at least not before 2008 in my opinion. If HHs enthusiasm had anything to do with it we would have CO and DL flying daily to NY, daily flights to Dubai and Doha. All a long way off (if at all), but you got to admire that enthusiasm.

[Jamesair]

On a less super-optimistic note re Copenhagen.

The pax tax which was imposed and caused the loss of our Easyjet operation there will be scrapped next year.

This should present an opportunity for a return of Easyjet or maybe Jet 2 or some other lo-cost operator.

SAS proved there is good pax demand for the route but not at a price that makes it viable for SAS

[HH6702]

New York

Hope to prove all you guy wrong!!

may have egg on my face but i think we will get it.

Less of a risk to start in july now more time for bookings and it's then high season.

[transwede]

I hope all your enthusiasm HH6702 is not wasted, but as time ticks on, there seems less of a chance of NCL getting a long haul link before 2008. I still have my doubts over the EK rumour, even if it did start, could NCL catchment area sustain such a service? Has the airport got the infrastructure to cope with all the extra flights, including long haul a/c on a daily basis with high end business classes? At the risk of repeating myself, handling at NCL is not first class and there is a severe lack of checkin facilities and security check points at busy periods. Not to mention gate equiped stands (i.e next to terminal), even the number of remote stands for pax ops in nearing capacity.

Long haul charter is a priority, if they work, maybe its a key to attract scheduled long haul. Notice Monarch, who operate all NCL charters across the pond are bottom of charter league table for delays at NCL - not a good first impression.

Regarding handling agents, I know Swissport and Servisair at NCL do not have the best reputation, but what is to say Menzies will if they start? (Lets also bear in mind nothing has been confirmed by airport or Menzies!) I also think it is not only the likes of EZY, TOM and TCX menzies will go for, smaller operators also bring in valuable handling fees and their contracts are generally renewed more often! Out of the two current, Swissport seem to be doing a better job with a better reputation for service. I have heard that Servis are regularly delaying flights and inbound aircraft are having to wait xxx time for steps and assistance!!! Hope things are looked at and change for the better, Servis used to be highly respected.

[skyman771]

Originally Posted by transwede

......... Has the airport got the infrastructure to cope with all the extra flights, including long haul a/c on a daily basis with high end business classes?

I've read your posting & again inconsistencies, you suggest not the capacity for longhaul scheduled but ok for longhaul IT
Personally I would have thought more hassle from IT pax, & as for suggesting long haul would need more business facilities, surely in the main these business pax already use NCL, they simply route via AMS, LHR ,CDG or wherever ! The real problems are highlighted by more & more Loco flights that are in the long term unsustainable & for which a low revenue is derived. The problem with NCL is not neccessarily the lack of foresight, but the inability to carry out the plans that have been mooted in recent years whether through lack of funding & resource or simply basic incompetence. There was a draft plan phase xx or whatever that mooted a terminal extension to the north with a second pier & without this then clearly all that is happening is putting a strain on all ground handling resource with the handlers at the front end hardly helping matters. Other points you raise about lack of security resource, seems that this is an almost country wide problem.
I personally see NCL's achilies heal in ultimately being a lack of space available for development, Landside things are already a disaster, & the multi storey car park fiasco just runs & runs. Airside things are little better, & in my mind the runway will never be more than adequate, anyhow, is it not due for major resurface work, like ages ago ?
One can always go on about problems but then it is better to be in the current situation than down the road at MME which is slowly deteriorating into little more than an AFB in support of the Middle East detachments

[CentreFix25]

Not heard anything lately, but the runway is due for some resurfacing soon. Apparently airside ops have been to Cardiff recently to see how they managed their resurfacing. Not sure of a start date though.

[Ops Guy]

The start date for the runway resurfacing is yet to be confirmed. Provisionally penciled in for winter 07/08. Should be fun!!!!!!

[transwede]

skyman771

Maybe my thoughts were not clear enough, let me expand a little. Yes NCL is a decent sized airport and given the correct planning new stuff would operate easily, but my concerns over scheduled long haul, lets use EK as an example are:

Full fare airline, with reputation for high quality business/first class cabins. This service starts on the ground with priority check ins, limo service (quite often kerb-side check in), superior business lounge facilities - often dedicated lounge etc. IMHO NCL lacks the ability and space to provide these things. Indeed only BA and Servis offer business facilities, neither meeting the expectations of first class pax. Sched carriers often also pay for extra check in facilities and if flight was scheduled to depart around a busy period, then there aint a hope in hells chance! Long haul IT work requires less of all this, therefore there is more chance. Lets not forget that the bulk of pax who use NCL are leisure travellers, therefore leisure destinations tend to be more appealing to pax and airlines.

On the security front, yes it is a headache for every UK airport, however, NCL has 4 checkpoints, why are there only ever max 2 in use at busy periods? Surely in the heightened state and increasing pax numbers more needs to be invested in more staff to man extra check points? I did hear a rumour, maybe even part of xx masterplan, that search area would increase in size, due to the closure of costa coffee upstairs and covering of balcony area above old check in area???

The runway does indeed need resurfacing, I'm sure it will happen in time. However, the length always causes a debate. A/C such Monarch A330 are capable of leaving on a transatlantic crossing, so is there a need to extend? Surely NCL does not have the catchment area for any bigger aircraft to operate regular scheduled services (perhaps TCD 747?)

Picture it - a few years time. Masterplan has been completed!! Newcastle has 3 terminals (well one but 3 different buildings), 2 piers and aircraft from scheduled full service, locos and charters can be seen operating domestic, european and long haul services on a charter and scheduled basis. Handling quality is one of the best around. The potential exists for airlines to look at NCL and think 'we have to start flying there!' (dream over!!!!!!!)

Have began a topic on 'Ground Ops' forum. Regular users, both SLF and crew would appreciate comments - curiosity an all!

[sean377]

Originally Posted by CentreFix25

You can find the stand layout here
Once youve registered (free) the path is Publications/UK AIP/The UK AIP Package/Aerodrome Data/Aerodrome Specific.

Or download here:
EGNT Parking Chart

[go-egnt]

thanks for the paport charts guys.

is they anywhere you can find out the max size of aircraft every stand can handle?

cheers

p.s...... come on emirates ( a emirates a330 would look amazin!)

[CentreFix25]

Heard an Emirates rumour today, March'07 and stand 9 all in the same sentence.

[10 DME ARC]

From the Flybe take over of BA Connect press release for NCL;
"Flybe confirms commitment to Newcastle and plans to make major new route announcements"

[Jamesair]

any chance of providing a link to that press release?



Not if it's an advertising link. And it is.

[Ops Guy]

go-egnt [QUOTE] is there anywhere you can find out the max size of aircraft every stand can handle?

Stands
Not sure of a document where you can get this info from, but I will tell you what I can.

Around the Pier
Stand 1 max aircraft B733. Stand 1 also has a diagonal centre line across it, which when in use is called stand 31. Aircraft which use stand 31 are marshalled on to it. Max B737-700.
Stand 2 max B738-A320
Stand 3 Can squeeze an A321 on to it (airbridge)
stand 4 B757-200
Stand 5 B737-700
Stand 6 B737-700
Stand 7 B738-A320
Stand 8 Just been reconfigured to B738-A320. It could take a 757 but the stand has been reshaped to accommodate the installation of the new airbridge on stand 9 (for whoever that may be)
Stand 9 A330-200. Stand 9 also has another centre line running down the side of it where we can park a 747, this is stand 30. When a 747 is on this stand it takes stands 8 + 9 up.
Stand 10 B767-300 (airbridge)
Stand 11 B767-300
Stand 12 B738-A320
Moving remote
Stand 13 B757 (wash stand)
Stand 14 B757 (wash stand)
Stand 15 B734 (wash stand)
Stand 16 we sqeezed a B777 on this stand last year when we had the 3 big diversions from LHR. (when a well known catering firm went on strike).
Stand 17 B767-300
Stand 18 B734 (this stand is getting made bigger as part of the winter works. I think it will be-able to handle a B737-7 0r 800 size)
Stand 19 has just this summer been reconfigured to handle a B738-A320 (I think)
Stand 20 B757-200
Stand 21 B767-300
Stand 22 B747-400 / A340. We also have stands 22L and 22R built within Stand 22. These are both capable of handling B734
Stand 23 B757

In between the blast barriers and stand 13 there is stands 32L + 32R these are both JS41.

Stands 50-54 are generally used for buisness jets for Samson.

South Side (freight)
Stand 60 B738
Stand 61 B738
Stand 62 B738

There is going to be a lot of winter works this year and a number of the remote stands dimensions will be changing. Also 2 new stands getting built north of stand 18 (behind stand 19). I think loco size.

Hope this helps you get a better understanding of Newcastle!!

[sean377]

Originally Posted by go-egnt

thanks for the paport charts guys.
is they anywhere you can find out the max size of aircraft every stand can handle?
cheers
p.s...... come on emirates ( a emirates a330 would look amazin!)

From the NCL pages of the UK AIP:


Stands 1 to 12 inclusive around the pier and 13 to 23 are marked in nose-in/push-back configuration, excluding certain large wide bodied aircraft which will be marshalled into
positition within an area comprising of stands 16-18 or 19-23. Stand 22 has additional centrelines
designated 22L and 22R. Parking on these stands is under marshaller’s instructions.
No stands are marked for self-manoeuvring operations, and availability of self-manoeuvring
stands will be at the discretion of Airside Operations and will require a vacant stand on both
sides of the aircraft wishing to self-manoeuvre, aircraft will be marshalled off stand. If the
adjacent stands are occupied aircraft MUST push-back. All nose-in stands are marked with
a yellow centre-line and stopbar for self-positioning onto stand. Aircraft alignment is achieved
when the stop bar is visible over the left shoulder of the pilot in the left hand seat. All stand
boxes that do not have parallel sides, ie Stands 6-9, 13, 16 and parallel sided stands 2 and 4
are marked with a stop short stopbar and is to be used as advised by ATC. Stands 3 and 10
served by APIS linked to Airbridge operations. Stands 4 and 7 also served by APIS to provide
Stand Entry Guidance, if not available then markings guidance provided as per above,
marshalling assistance available on request.
Supplementary parking positions 30 and 31: Stand 30 is a parking position diagonally across
Stand 9 for B747 or A330-300 aircraft, and Stand 31 is a parking position diagonally across
Stand 1 for B737-700 or A319 aircraft. Both are accessible with marshalling assistance. ATC
will give directions if required.
Supplementary parking positions 32L/32R: Stands 32L/32R are located west of Stand 13 and
are available for 2 Jetstream aircraft under marshalling guidance. ATC will give directions if
required.
Push-back from Stand 12 will be via specific instructions from ATC.

The entire document is here. It's on page 3.