Security at airports
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Security at airports
I have heard a rumour that ATC staff at mme are not allowed to take any frozen food and any liquids of any sort including yoghurts into the tower as it is offically airside. Would imagine this goes for firefighters and tels staff as well. This is just stupidity and should really be relaxed for these personnel. Come on they have access to fire arms and cutting equipment so if they can't be trusted with a yoghurt!!!! I have even heard that management have stopped them from ordering milk from the milkman and insisting on them buying milk from trekkers.
Is this sort of thing happening at other ATC units across the country?
Is this sort of thing happening at other ATC units across the country?
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Eaglestar, try sitting/walking/talking in a [not perfect] Air Conditioning so called "system" for 9 hours WITHOUT a "decent" drink...Whoopie doo, a 5cl "water cooler cone" 15m away in MACC and 12m/2 lots of stairs in the Tower.....
watp,iktch
watp,iktch
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So Eaglestar7 what do they eat? They haven't got the time to cook a steak dinner or even really bacon and eggs. Plus the kitchen isn't pobably upto much. I do know that ATC staff find it hard to get across to the terminal to get food and why would they want to when it costs so much. Frozen meals are a staple. Just think before you post. These people should be treated with more respect and like I say if they can be trusted with access to fire arms and cutting equipment should be trusted with water and frozen meals. Just remember you trust them and pilots with your life every time you fly surely you can trust them with water.
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What is wrong with treating everybody the same? One good reason infiltration. I wish people would stop thinking they have a god given right to special treatment. Every job in an airside location is at risk from infiltration and don't let anyone kid you otherwise.
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You think that's bad, at an airport in the North West of England a couple of weeks ago, security stopped an engineer taking a can of Heinz Baked Beans airside to where his work station is based and said he had to prove that the was Beans in the tin. The rumour is that he opened the tin up and poured its contents out onto the scanner machine belt????. This is just one story of stupidity that's happening everyday.
Fire extinguishers through the scanner please?????????????????????? Thankfully that has now stopped
Eye wash bottles were going to be confiscated. No eyewash bottles means no refuelling vehicles will go airside. They soon changed their mind on that one. Idiots.
Yes Mr Refueller, you cannot take a bottle of water on the ramp for you to have a drink in this hot summer weather, but you can drive your tanker across the apron with all the aircraft taxiing around with 39,000 litres of aviation fuel on board. ????????????
Chips on their own are fine, but chips with gravy are a security risk. Cannot believe anyone acutely typed that memo.
The number of pilots I speak to every morning who are not in the right frame of mind for flying due to the way they are being treated whilst getting into work. One Captain described it as being treated like cattle. Taking all their toiletries off them due to being a security risk, forgetting that they are actually flying the aircraft and don't need toothpaste to fly it into the houses of parliaments if they wanted to.
Many pilots getting very pissed off. I often think are they in the right frame of mind to be flying and if not, who's fault is that.
CRM is failing hear very much so I think.
The terrorist have won this one.
Fire extinguishers through the scanner please?????????????????????? Thankfully that has now stopped
Eye wash bottles were going to be confiscated. No eyewash bottles means no refuelling vehicles will go airside. They soon changed their mind on that one. Idiots.
Yes Mr Refueller, you cannot take a bottle of water on the ramp for you to have a drink in this hot summer weather, but you can drive your tanker across the apron with all the aircraft taxiing around with 39,000 litres of aviation fuel on board. ????????????
Chips on their own are fine, but chips with gravy are a security risk. Cannot believe anyone acutely typed that memo.
The number of pilots I speak to every morning who are not in the right frame of mind for flying due to the way they are being treated whilst getting into work. One Captain described it as being treated like cattle. Taking all their toiletries off them due to being a security risk, forgetting that they are actually flying the aircraft and don't need toothpaste to fly it into the houses of parliaments if they wanted to.
Many pilots getting very pissed off. I often think are they in the right frame of mind to be flying and if not, who's fault is that.
CRM is failing hear very much so I think.
The terrorist have won this one.
Last edited by EGCC4284; 9th Sep 2006 at 20:48.
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Ok eaglestar if everyone is the same please can I have a firearm with me next time I go to fly??????
Dont be so stupid, if eveyone is treated the same why can't I take scissors airside? They have them in ATC. You are over simplizising things. These people are vetted before taking the job, so a little respect is not unfair. With the unit I mentioned I don't think there have been any new staff join the unit since the new rules were brought in so infiltration is very unlikely. Come on stop seeing things in black and white the world is in multi colour
Dont be so stupid, if eveyone is treated the same why can't I take scissors airside? They have them in ATC. You are over simplizising things. These people are vetted before taking the job, so a little respect is not unfair. With the unit I mentioned I don't think there have been any new staff join the unit since the new rules were brought in so infiltration is very unlikely. Come on stop seeing things in black and white the world is in multi colour
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EGCC4284
Whatever happens it will always be security at fault.
If the restrictions hadn't been put in place and something had happened then it would be security at fault.
If the restrictions are lifted and something happens it will be security at fault.
I fully understand the way everyone feels about this but what is more important? It would be nice to live in an ideal world, but it isn't and I for one will stop flying if things are relaxed.
Moaning about a tin of baked beans, come on.
Whatever happens it will always be security at fault.
If the restrictions hadn't been put in place and something had happened then it would be security at fault.
If the restrictions are lifted and something happens it will be security at fault.
I fully understand the way everyone feels about this but what is more important? It would be nice to live in an ideal world, but it isn't and I for one will stop flying if things are relaxed.
Moaning about a tin of baked beans, come on.
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Eaglestar most of us can fully understand why these restrictions have been put in place but there must be a distinction made between the public and employees.
Last edited by onion; 9th Sep 2006 at 21:26.
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Well, woe betide the security person who tells me I can't bring in ibuprofen gel
for my back. Anyway, the restrictions only say that we can't 'carry' these items through a security access point. I can honestly say I have not 'carried' any liquid through the security gate since this whole fiasco started.
Anyway, who needs to 'carry' anything when there are so many places to hide things in a Discovery!
for my back. Anyway, the restrictions only say that we can't 'carry' these items through a security access point. I can honestly say I have not 'carried' any liquid through the security gate since this whole fiasco started.
Anyway, who needs to 'carry' anything when there are so many places to hide things in a Discovery!
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ok here is one for you.... i am diabetic and have been stoped from taking food airside that i need to keep me going (and alive) through my shift have gone home 3 times in the last 3 weeks because i have not had any food .. and all they say to me is buy food airside hmmmmmmm there needs to be a bit more thought to what can be taken .. paster with sauce is not going to bring a plane down
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Pah, they'll still never find anything!
Rampman - depends how bad yer pasta sauce is!
Although one thing puzzles me. We can't bring drinks in, even if they're in sealed containers. But we can bring in 'drinks containers' as long as they are empty and can be checked. WTF? What d**khead came up with that load of old fanny? 
I might just start bringing in empty coke bottles and soup tins just for the hell of it.
Rampman - depends how bad yer pasta sauce is!
Although one thing puzzles me. We can't bring drinks in, even if they're in sealed containers. But we can bring in 'drinks containers' as long as they are empty and can be checked. WTF? What d**khead came up with that load of old fanny?
I might just start bringing in empty coke bottles and soup tins just for the hell of it.
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Yes it's a pain, but it is preferable to what could alledgedly have happened. We're all in the same boat, I have to go back landside to get a drink as we have no water at all, and can't bring any through. Remember though, it wasn't the airports, their security staff, or the airlines that caused this.
The thing that stuns me is that the ground staff generally just get on with it, most passengers aren't too bad, yet the flight crew and flight attendants moan like it's worst thing on earth. Bored listening to it over and over again, yes we know, ground staff pass through security all day.
The thing that stuns me is that the ground staff generally just get on with it, most passengers aren't too bad, yet the flight crew and flight attendants moan like it's worst thing on earth. Bored listening to it over and over again, yes we know, ground staff pass through security all day.
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Why?! I think the restrictions must be applied to ALL passing through security otherwise you have a weak link in the system and the terrorists will expolit it. I fully understand that staff have background checks etc but does that really 100% ensure they are not terrorists or would not help terrorists somehow, I think not.
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Autoglide maybe it is more of a pain for air crew and cabin crew as they generally don't get the chance to get off the plane until end of shift and so don't get the chance to go to the shop, for instance you try getting off a ryanair flight at say LGW into the shops airside and back to the aircraft in a 30min turn around. Ok they have food etc on board but that is for the pax.
Phil it is stupid if employees airside cant be trusted to not bring in dangerous chemicals how the hell can you trust them with firearms and remember there is already the basic ingredients for a bomb already airside at most airports. The argument is floored either we go back to a sensible way of working or we let terrorists win. The world is not black and white like like these stupid rules are trying to make it.
Phil it is stupid if employees airside cant be trusted to not bring in dangerous chemicals how the hell can you trust them with firearms and remember there is already the basic ingredients for a bomb already airside at most airports. The argument is floored either we go back to a sensible way of working or we let terrorists win. The world is not black and white like like these stupid rules are trying to make it.
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onion: The argument is floored either we go back to a sensible way of working or we let terrorists win.
Sorry back to square one here, back to infiltration.
It isn't a matter of "I have had a CRC check", or even a CTC check. MI5 have made it clear that a terrorist will go to any lengths to infiltrate the system. They have publically stated that terrorists have even tried to infiltrate MI5.
We all know that weak spots exist, but I don't think a public forum is the place to discuss these weak areas. Everybody need to work together to weed out these idiots that threaten our way of life. People must try to be more understanding in why it must be done. It was always known that problems would occur. At some airports it maybe more practical to move the 'workers' rest rooms to a landside location, making employers add extra time to lunch breaks.
Whatever you think, the passengers response is generally good. At least 95% of passengers are pleased that we are doing what we're doing, dispite having to remove their liquid items under instruction from the Department For Transport.
Onion: "basic ingredients for a bomb already airside at most airports". Yes, in the kitchen!!
I say, 'let them in, THEN they win'.
Sorry back to square one here, back to infiltration.
It isn't a matter of "I have had a CRC check", or even a CTC check. MI5 have made it clear that a terrorist will go to any lengths to infiltrate the system. They have publically stated that terrorists have even tried to infiltrate MI5.
We all know that weak spots exist, but I don't think a public forum is the place to discuss these weak areas. Everybody need to work together to weed out these idiots that threaten our way of life. People must try to be more understanding in why it must be done. It was always known that problems would occur. At some airports it maybe more practical to move the 'workers' rest rooms to a landside location, making employers add extra time to lunch breaks.
Whatever you think, the passengers response is generally good. At least 95% of passengers are pleased that we are doing what we're doing, dispite having to remove their liquid items under instruction from the Department For Transport.
Onion: "basic ingredients for a bomb already airside at most airports". Yes, in the kitchen!!
I say, 'let them in, THEN they win'.
Last edited by Eaglestar7; 10th Sep 2006 at 17:47. Reason: to add quote
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Ealgestar I think your missing my point, I believe that in the current situation yes extra security is needed. I don't dissagree with the fact that pax maybe for it, infact I agree with the current measures in place for pax. My argument was originally specific to mme, which has a separate gate away from the terminal airside where ATC personnel pass through. With it being a small unit all ATC personnel are known.
Why if people who have worked in some cases for 20+years at the airport are now suspects? What has changed since 9/11? Have we not been under threat since then? So why weren't the rules brought in then? The same threats existed then in terms of the fluids this is not a new threat. Yes you may say this is a specific threat, but isn't it the threat that you didn't know about that gets you????
I still believe that if personnel who can't be trusted with water shouldn't be trusted with firearms.
Your argument that we are back to infiltration is i'm sorry to say going to be here for ever you will never stop it no matter what you do.
Yeah terroists tried to infiltrate MI5 by applying for jobs, the checks came back and found them out.
Why if people who have worked in some cases for 20+years at the airport are now suspects? What has changed since 9/11? Have we not been under threat since then? So why weren't the rules brought in then? The same threats existed then in terms of the fluids this is not a new threat. Yes you may say this is a specific threat, but isn't it the threat that you didn't know about that gets you????
I still believe that if personnel who can't be trusted with water shouldn't be trusted with firearms.
Your argument that we are back to infiltration is i'm sorry to say going to be here for ever you will never stop it no matter what you do.
Yeah terroists tried to infiltrate MI5 by applying for jobs, the checks came back and found them out.