GATWICK
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Quote: "nigel, LGW emphasises that today (2012 numbers) only a bit over 17 million of the passengers flying to London airports are transfer passengers; the rest (118 million) are O&D passengers. With such a vast majority terminating only the best ground transport counts to get to the final destination."
The presence of transfer pax make normally unviable routes profitable, adding to the number of destinations available from a particular airport, and increasing choice and developing new business.
The number of transfer pax is immaterial, it only has to be sufficient to provide these additional routes.
Quote: "Watching this with interest as my office is within the new 'Safeguarded boundary'..."
Interesting that there's a safeguarded boundary at LGW! Judging by the distance of some of the rwy options from the existing rwy, it must be one hell of a large area!
Was it established before 1979?
Shame there was never one established at LHR back in the day (1950s).
The presence of transfer pax make normally unviable routes profitable, adding to the number of destinations available from a particular airport, and increasing choice and developing new business.
The number of transfer pax is immaterial, it only has to be sufficient to provide these additional routes.
Quote: "Watching this with interest as my office is within the new 'Safeguarded boundary'..."
Interesting that there's a safeguarded boundary at LGW! Judging by the distance of some of the rwy options from the existing rwy, it must be one hell of a large area!
Was it established before 1979?
Shame there was never one established at LHR back in the day (1950s).
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 25th Jul 2013 at 17:18.
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TAP look to be increasing LGW-LIS from 5 to 11 weekly for the winter meaning they will operate the following:
OPO - 14 weekly
LIS - 11 weekly
FNC - 7 weekly (Summer only)
All should be on a mix of A319/A320.
OPO - 14 weekly
LIS - 11 weekly
FNC - 7 weekly (Summer only)
All should be on a mix of A319/A320.
Last edited by adfly; 25th Jul 2013 at 17:55.
Interesting that there's a safeguarded boundary at LGW! Judging by the distance of some of the rwy options from the existing rwy, it must be one hell of a large area!
Was it established before 1979?
Was it established before 1979?
"The [2003 Air Transport White Paper] concluded that additional capacity at Gatwick would be very attractive to passengers, was supported by a strong economic case and that a new runway at Gatwick should be kept available as an option. That policy, which remains in place today, led to the formal safeguarding of over 550 hectares of land to the south of the airport and north of the town of Crawley as shown on Figure 1."
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North West Bypass.
Excellent summary racedo, how do you think the Crawley North West Bypass will fit into the equation? And also how will the new runway fit in with the already approved North East Sector Development? http://www.crawley.gov.uk/pw/web/int158472
Last edited by yotty; 25th Jul 2013 at 21:12.
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Interesting that there's a safeguarded boundary at LGW! Judging by the distance of some of the rwy options from the existing rwy, it must be one hell of a large area!
Was it established before 1979?
Was it established before 1979?
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Just supposing
.... the oracle at delphi in 2015 says no more capacity at LHR in the forseeable future but we'll go for a second runway at LGW.
So the three alliances are there at Heathrow running at 99% of capacity busily rebalancing their operations in a growth environment. Meanwhile there's quite a lot of decent quality capacity going at Gatwick. The last thing the supermarket industry likes to do is leave space for market entry. That scenario would concentrate quite a few minds in the alliances. I agree people don't always do what they say they would do, especially when what they say is intended to influence the outcome rather than respond to a decision.
So the three alliances are there at Heathrow running at 99% of capacity busily rebalancing their operations in a growth environment. Meanwhile there's quite a lot of decent quality capacity going at Gatwick. The last thing the supermarket industry likes to do is leave space for market entry. That scenario would concentrate quite a few minds in the alliances. I agree people don't always do what they say they would do, especially when what they say is intended to influence the outcome rather than respond to a decision.
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So the three alliances are there at Heathrow running at 99% of capacity busily rebalancing their operations in a growth environment. Meanwhile there's quite a lot of decent quality capacity going at Gatwick. The last thing the supermarket industry likes to do is leave space for market entry. That scenario would concentrate quite a few minds in the alliances. I agree people don't always do what they say they would do, especially when what they say is intended to influence the outcome rather than respond to a decision.
26th Jul 2013 09:23
26th Jul 2013 09:23
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Hearing that Garuda have closed reservations for their forthcoming Gatwick service, you can no longer book it.
Anyone know whether they are just tweaking the schedule and will reopen it ?
Nigel
Anyone know whether they are just tweaking the schedule and will reopen it ?
Nigel
anothertyke - supermarkets are also capable of landbanking (and the local property firms in any area will presumably have a good idea as to who controls what major pieces of land), but London airport slots are use-it-or-lose-it
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Quote: "Just supposing
.... the oracle at delphi in 2015 says no more capacity at LHR in the forseeable future but we'll go for a second runway at LGW.
So the three alliances are there at Heathrow running at 99% of capacity busily rebalancing their operations in a growth environment. Meanwhile there's quite a lot of decent quality capacity going at Gatwick. The last thing the supermarket industry likes to do is leave space for market entry. That scenario would concentrate quite a few minds in the alliances. I agree people don't always do what they say they would do, especially when what they say is intended to influence the outcome rather than respond to a decision."
That would be the same as the "do nothing" option as far as LHR is concerned. and a disaster for the UK.
Under your scenario, the three alliances (and others) would be unable to expand at LHR. What makes you think one or more would up-sticks from LHR and automatically shift to a 2-rwy LGW?
You need to consider the strong possibility that the alliances (and others)could well find:
(1) plenty of premium business;
(2) sufficient connectivity and interlining/through-ticketing opportunities; PLUS
(3) plenty of capacity
at LHR's competitor airports: AMS, CDG and FRA, and may well choose to expand there instead. That is the danger.
Think this wrong? It's been happening for years!
A 2-rwy LGW can only offer (3) above, as can BHX, GLA, MAN, etc.. It's unsatisfactory for BHX, GLA and MAN, but it is an unpleasant fact of life.
.... the oracle at delphi in 2015 says no more capacity at LHR in the forseeable future but we'll go for a second runway at LGW.
So the three alliances are there at Heathrow running at 99% of capacity busily rebalancing their operations in a growth environment. Meanwhile there's quite a lot of decent quality capacity going at Gatwick. The last thing the supermarket industry likes to do is leave space for market entry. That scenario would concentrate quite a few minds in the alliances. I agree people don't always do what they say they would do, especially when what they say is intended to influence the outcome rather than respond to a decision."
That would be the same as the "do nothing" option as far as LHR is concerned. and a disaster for the UK.
Under your scenario, the three alliances (and others) would be unable to expand at LHR. What makes you think one or more would up-sticks from LHR and automatically shift to a 2-rwy LGW?
You need to consider the strong possibility that the alliances (and others)could well find:
(1) plenty of premium business;
(2) sufficient connectivity and interlining/through-ticketing opportunities; PLUS
(3) plenty of capacity
at LHR's competitor airports: AMS, CDG and FRA, and may well choose to expand there instead. That is the danger.
Think this wrong? It's been happening for years!
A 2-rwy LGW can only offer (3) above, as can BHX, GLA, MAN, etc.. It's unsatisfactory for BHX, GLA and MAN, but it is an unpleasant fact of life.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 26th Jul 2013 at 18:09.
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FD Frank
not sure on your conclusion re LGW yes would agree re BHX MAN, but a lot suit traffic at LGW, but hub and spoke traffic is of course important, but you can get just about anywhere in Europe with high daily frequency between the likes of Easyjet & Norwegian so more international traffic is bound to follow
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Quote: "FD Frank
not sure on your conclusion re LGW yes would agree re BHX MAN, but a lot suit traffic at LGW, but hub and spoke traffic is of course important, but you can get just about anywhere in Europe with high daily frequency between the likes of Easyjet & Norwegian so more international traffic is bound to follow"
Agreed, Facelookbovvered, but interline/through-ticketing options are not available with the likes of DY and U2, so it's not very convenient for connecting pax. Their business model is completely different.
Also agree that LGW is convenient for some, and that it's situated in a relatively wealthy area, but is there enough premium business? These pax are supremely important to longhaul carriers - they provide the profits. Economy pax are the icing on the cake.
Don't doubt for a minute that LGW would expand its point-to-point business with a second rwy, possibly attracting traffic from LTN and STN, but as hub for one or more alliances? - seems highly unlikely.
not sure on your conclusion re LGW yes would agree re BHX MAN, but a lot suit traffic at LGW, but hub and spoke traffic is of course important, but you can get just about anywhere in Europe with high daily frequency between the likes of Easyjet & Norwegian so more international traffic is bound to follow"
Agreed, Facelookbovvered, but interline/through-ticketing options are not available with the likes of DY and U2, so it's not very convenient for connecting pax. Their business model is completely different.
Also agree that LGW is convenient for some, and that it's situated in a relatively wealthy area, but is there enough premium business? These pax are supremely important to longhaul carriers - they provide the profits. Economy pax are the icing on the cake.
Don't doubt for a minute that LGW would expand its point-to-point business with a second rwy, possibly attracting traffic from LTN and STN, but as hub for one or more alliances? - seems highly unlikely.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 26th Jul 2013 at 20:53.
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I notice there is a DL arriving and departing to KLAS and KMCO today. Is this a one off? I thought no US carriers flew LGW anymore?
Last edited by LadyL2013; 30th Jul 2013 at 11:08.