GATWICK
Join Date: Dec 2011
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?????? You should know better, I am British through and through, however LN-KGL seems to think we're arrogant and chippy. Not good marketing for a PR man tbh
Don't particularly give a monkeys personally, just interested to know why it is such an issue for others!
Who is the PR man?
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
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I think the point that Skipness1E is making is that Norwegians attempt at long haul will fail, because no one has ever made it work from LGW especially JFK, it can only work if the can sell the seats cheap enough and in order to do that they have to reduce cost by not using Norwegian labour rates, well most of that is true, but Norwegian labour rates are amongst the highest in the world especially when you add government social taxes on top.
Their long haul operation is wholly owned by Norwegian and it appears to have set up business in Ireland, although it does not fly to or from there, however Norwegian do. The reasons for this appear to be a) to obtain a European AOC b) take advantage of the attractive corporate tax rates c) take advantage of the large pool of experience in aircraft finance in the ROP d) setting up an aircraft leasing company.
Non of this seems odd to me or wrong, unusual maybe, if they have satisfied the Irish authorities sufficiently for them to granted an AOC and they have, then what their future business plans are, are a matter for them!!
Personally I don't see much difference between flying to JFK than flying anywhere else, sure it's a bit further than Malaga, but the trend is for longer flights. It's just another flight?
Of course all the vested interest group will whinge an moan, but prices on trans Atlantic flights have gone up, load factor is up and that's down to reduced compertion due mainly to the like of Star alliance & one world, they are using their near monopoly position to maximise yield in order to cover their historic inefficiencies, they will try every means foul or fair to kill Norwegians plans dead, just as ** did with Laker and Virgin and SAS tried with Norwegian, these are the anti free market forces that keep air fare high and make it more expensive to fly than it need be.
Of course Skipness is correct when he says that this will lead to lower salaries over time, but that will happen anyway and trying to be king Kanut results only in wet feet and loss of face for the it will never work brigade.
I suspect it may well work and the rest of the industry may well think that too, given they way they are trying to kill it dead, the biggest threat to Norwegian is their own growth rate given the number of aircraft coming 200+ ?
But so far they seem to have had a positive effect on pricing, employ over a 1000 pilots have given the mass market free wifi and judging by the awards they have won a good on board service that is above the standard budget airline offering, if they tread on a few peoples toes so what?
One thing is for sure, very soon, within 12 months we will know if it is working and either Skipness1E echo will have benn proved to have far more business accumen than all the people in Oslo or he will look a prat! whether he comes from Scotland, Sheffield or Southend is irrelevant
Back to the thread
Their long haul operation is wholly owned by Norwegian and it appears to have set up business in Ireland, although it does not fly to or from there, however Norwegian do. The reasons for this appear to be a) to obtain a European AOC b) take advantage of the attractive corporate tax rates c) take advantage of the large pool of experience in aircraft finance in the ROP d) setting up an aircraft leasing company.
Non of this seems odd to me or wrong, unusual maybe, if they have satisfied the Irish authorities sufficiently for them to granted an AOC and they have, then what their future business plans are, are a matter for them!!
Personally I don't see much difference between flying to JFK than flying anywhere else, sure it's a bit further than Malaga, but the trend is for longer flights. It's just another flight?
Of course all the vested interest group will whinge an moan, but prices on trans Atlantic flights have gone up, load factor is up and that's down to reduced compertion due mainly to the like of Star alliance & one world, they are using their near monopoly position to maximise yield in order to cover their historic inefficiencies, they will try every means foul or fair to kill Norwegians plans dead, just as ** did with Laker and Virgin and SAS tried with Norwegian, these are the anti free market forces that keep air fare high and make it more expensive to fly than it need be.
Of course Skipness is correct when he says that this will lead to lower salaries over time, but that will happen anyway and trying to be king Kanut results only in wet feet and loss of face for the it will never work brigade.
I suspect it may well work and the rest of the industry may well think that too, given they way they are trying to kill it dead, the biggest threat to Norwegian is their own growth rate given the number of aircraft coming 200+ ?
But so far they seem to have had a positive effect on pricing, employ over a 1000 pilots have given the mass market free wifi and judging by the awards they have won a good on board service that is above the standard budget airline offering, if they tread on a few peoples toes so what?
One thing is for sure, very soon, within 12 months we will know if it is working and either Skipness1E echo will have benn proved to have far more business accumen than all the people in Oslo or he will look a prat! whether he comes from Scotland, Sheffield or Southend is irrelevant
Back to the thread
I have made no comment about about your background or birth place, i know nothing of you I was simply referring to the many previous post where others refer to your aggressive and often arrogant response to people who's views differ to that of yours that is a product of your birth place
It add nothing to your point of view rather it makes you look petty.
Frankly Skip and I rarely agree, he has however always put together a reasoned agruement without resorting to personal digs.
I have have numerous enough discussions with him over the years and find him and DJ probably among the best to get in a discussion with simply because of their knowledge and reasoned debate.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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either Skipness1E echo will have benn proved to have far more business accumen than all the people in Oslo or he will look a prat!
Let me be as clear as I may, my concern, such as it is, is not that Norwegian will fail, I rather suspect they won't. I rather think that now, they might succeed at Gatwick if they ruthlessly maintain their cost controls. I view this operation as something of a Trojan horse. The consumer wins as we have more choice at a lower price, on a new aircraft with a very good product and a young and efficient fleet.
The only thing I will say is, it sounds too good to be true, so what's the catch? It's the flag of convenience, using a well known soft touch regulatory body, having staff based outside the EU and rotating them through the EU, closing off the long haul operation from the rest of the company, whose growth is partially predicated on the assumption that the SAS group would fail. Take a step back, in recent years, Ryanair and some others have driven industry ts & cs into the mud. Each time we all get hacked off at rubbish service it's partly to do with the fact that talented and able people won't work in such a high pressure envirnonment for the wages offered. So the front line earns less and less so we can all fly for less and less and the only people who get very rich are the smart people who managed to get the rest to work for less and less in the first place! It doesn't have to be that cut throat as easyJet and some others have shown.
I'm no left wing type but for the love of sanity, this race to the bottom has to stop. btw anyone who knows me knows I am a prat anyway so it's quite likely NAS will succeed at least in the short term.
Join Date: May 2005
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It doesn't have to be that cut throat as easyJet and some others have shown.
Easyjet are very much as guilty in terms of driving down the industry. Try speaking to their 3rd party suppliers, particularly their ground handlers who will tell you that Easyjet are the most cut throat out there.
Join Date: Dec 2012
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The figure I heard was that Norwegian recruited around 230 or so ex Ryanair people last 12 months or so, in addition an awful lot of ex Spainair cabin crew, many who were told at 30 + they were past it by other airlines,they are very grateful for Norwegians entrance to the market and the civilised way in which they are treated, they are employed first and foremost for the safety of passenger, sale on board is a distant second, indeed on many short flights with Scandinavia. there are no sales on board.
So a lot of people have volunteered to join Norwegian to improve the quality of their lives, of course employing Thai cabin crew based in Bangkok will rankle and frankly I don't understand how that works with an Irish AOC and the right to work in Europe, if of course they are genuine slings of duty then fair enough, I think Norwegian have moved quickly to recruit American based cabin crew to deflect criticism from US groups.
My understanding is that they could just as easily use Spanish cabin crew and that the employee cost would be little different
Pilots I'm in the dark about, but if the American DOT refuse route licences I suspect that Norwegian will just restructure to meet what requirement the DOT require?
Facelookbovvered is not alone in concerns over the rate of expansion, when a crew base at LGW was announced more than a few within the company thought it was risky going up against easyJet, but I hear it has exceeded all expectation and the only regret that NAS have is not having ordered more aircraft for LGW.
Racedo knows only to well the stick that Ryanair were given over their expansion rate, yet it worked, at least financially despite many many who said it couldn't be done.
More routes to be announced shortly for LGW is the word for March and an increase in frequency for many current routes
So a lot of people have volunteered to join Norwegian to improve the quality of their lives, of course employing Thai cabin crew based in Bangkok will rankle and frankly I don't understand how that works with an Irish AOC and the right to work in Europe, if of course they are genuine slings of duty then fair enough, I think Norwegian have moved quickly to recruit American based cabin crew to deflect criticism from US groups.
My understanding is that they could just as easily use Spanish cabin crew and that the employee cost would be little different
Pilots I'm in the dark about, but if the American DOT refuse route licences I suspect that Norwegian will just restructure to meet what requirement the DOT require?
Facelookbovvered is not alone in concerns over the rate of expansion, when a crew base at LGW was announced more than a few within the company thought it was risky going up against easyJet, but I hear it has exceeded all expectation and the only regret that NAS have is not having ordered more aircraft for LGW.
Racedo knows only to well the stick that Ryanair were given over their expansion rate, yet it worked, at least financially despite many many who said it couldn't be done.
More routes to be announced shortly for LGW is the word for March and an increase in frequency for many current routes
Join Date: Jul 2006
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With the large number of new aircraft on order by the big ME3, will the other 2 at some point return to Lgw as they will need routes to put them on?
I also notice that Norwegian is very competitive on baggage charges, at least compared to Ezy and Fr and even on flights to N America.
TB
I also notice that Norwegian is very competitive on baggage charges, at least compared to Ezy and Fr and even on flights to N America.
TB
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Garuda flights appear to be off sale until the start of the W14 season. Is this correct, have they been postponed again?
TB
TB
Garuda Indonesia Re-opens London Gatwick Reservation from Sep 2014 | Airline Route
Perhaps tell friend that London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly takes less than 2h10 by train and goes every 20 minutes. Then ask friend whether he/she (and other people) would really pay for flights instead
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Perhaps tell friend that London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly takes less than 2h10 by train and goes every 20 minutes. Then ask friend whether he/she (and other people) would really pay for flights instead
LHR is closer to both MAN and London Euston, so why fly? LGW is further than both MAN and London Euston...
That's all very interesting if you live in the Euston Road and are going to see someone in Piccadilly Gardens. Most pax between these two metropolitan areas are doing neither. If you live in Sussex it would probably take you longer to reach Euston station entrance than it would to get to Gatwick and fly to Manchester, certainly if you are beyond walking distance from a station and need to use your car to start the trip, and the same is true of much of London. Just like BA do services to some destinations from both Heathrow and Gatwick, there are separate catchment areas for the different airports/departure points around London, and for business travellers doing a day return trip, getting to Euston etc can be a gross inconvenience and time-waster.
LHR is closer to both MAN and London Euston, so why fly?
Whilst the train and APD have impacted MAN-LHR numbers, the route still carries large numbers of connecting passengers which BA and VS need to feed their LHR hub. Many of these passengers would tend to go via competing Euro hubs if the BA and Little Red MAN-LHR flights didn't exist, rather than haul their luggage on the train to London Euston and then out again to LHR just to then connect to other overseas destinations.
Many of the sun and low cost routes out of LGW are now also available from MAN (and other regional centres), so the reason for BA and Virgin to provide a MAN-LGW feeder service as well as LHR is not as apparent. And as DJ says the train is now a frequent, cheaper and more convenient option for much of the MAN-LON point to point market.
Whilst the train and APD have impacted MAN-LHR numbers, the route still carries large numbers of connecting passengers which BA and VS need to feed their LHR hub. Many of these passengers would tend to go via competing Euro hubs if the BA and Little Red MAN-LHR flights didn't exist, rather than haul their luggage on the train to London Euston and then out again to LHR just to then connect to other overseas destinations.
Many of the sun and low cost routes out of LGW are now also available from MAN (and other regional centres), so the reason for BA and Virgin to provide a MAN-LGW feeder service as well as LHR is not as apparent. And as DJ says the train is now a frequent, cheaper and more convenient option for much of the MAN-LON point to point market.
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MAN-LON point to point market.
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I was a regular customer on MAN - LGW for many years. I have family in Kent and beyond and worked great. Even used for Central London as very rarely entered a stack etc. so much quicker on Gatŵick Express. Me and many others were sad to see the route go even the BA staff couldn't understand. I'm sure there is a requirement for the route but APD is killing the UK Market. Ireland is about to scrap it's APD ok not as high as UK but at least it's a move in the right direction.
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Biggest problem facing airlines is APD and particularly because it's charged in each direction where as in Ireland it was only departing flights.
The UK will never scrap it as it's a money maker and traffic to/from UK airports is increasing so they would be mad to scrap it, it will take a decline in traffic for it to be looked at but they should only charge it one way not both ways.
A high chance Scotland will see it scrapped weather it goes independent or powers will be moved from London. At some stage there will be a change in Northern Ireland on it but no a chance in England and Wales.
The UK will never scrap it as it's a money maker and traffic to/from UK airports is increasing so they would be mad to scrap it, it will take a decline in traffic for it to be looked at but they should only charge it one way not both ways.
A high chance Scotland will see it scrapped weather it goes independent or powers will be moved from London. At some stage there will be a change in Northern Ireland on it but no a chance in England and Wales.