British Airways
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The problem is not the actual cost but more to do with collusion with competitors in order that prices can be driven up. That is what is at issue here.
Strictly verboten and deemed anticompetitive.
What the OFT are looking for us evidence that separate companies dicussed price changes prior to implementation which breeches free market rules.
Ex
Strictly verboten and deemed anticompetitive.
What the OFT are looking for us evidence that separate companies dicussed price changes prior to implementation which breeches free market rules.
Ex
Baggage
Going back to the 23kg baggage limit - H & S ? What a bunch of pussies!
Our coalman carried 1 cwt sacks; that's 50kg and they didn't have a handle on them! I used to load sugar bags weighing almost a cwt onto a flatbed.
So pack it in, BA and the rest! Let's get back to the 32kg limit! May improve the share price
Our coalman carried 1 cwt sacks; that's 50kg and they didn't have a handle on them! I used to load sugar bags weighing almost a cwt onto a flatbed.
So pack it in, BA and the rest! Let's get back to the 32kg limit! May improve the share price
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How do you have a Cartel of one?
As a previous post mentioned, there is definitely something fishy going on here.
The investigation is supposed to be about fuel surcharges, yet the 2 of transatlantic carriers not being investigated have the highest surcharges.
Just look at fares, there is not £5 between any of them for much of the summer. So why is BA being singled out? It seems likely that Virgin is under investigation too, but it is still far short of anything that could be termed a Cartel.
The involvement of the DOJ is perhaps a clue. It would not be the first time that our American friends supported their airlines at the expense of ours.
The investigation is supposed to be about fuel surcharges, yet the 2 of transatlantic carriers not being investigated have the highest surcharges.
Just look at fares, there is not £5 between any of them for much of the summer. So why is BA being singled out? It seems likely that Virgin is under investigation too, but it is still far short of anything that could be termed a Cartel.
The involvement of the DOJ is perhaps a clue. It would not be the first time that our American friends supported their airlines at the expense of ours.
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Originally Posted by Basil
Going back to the 23kg baggage limit - H & S ? What a bunch of pussies!
Our coalman carried 1 cwt sacks; that's 50kg and they didn't have a handle on them! I used to load sugar bags weighing almost a cwt onto a flatbed.
So pack it in, BA and the rest! Let's get back to the 32kg limit! May improve the share price
Our coalman carried 1 cwt sacks; that's 50kg and they didn't have a handle on them! I used to load sugar bags weighing almost a cwt onto a flatbed.
So pack it in, BA and the rest! Let's get back to the 32kg limit! May improve the share price
But, I am now knackered with permanent back and knee problems. Maybe I should sue?
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Like you, my Fast Porcine, I used to carry slates and hods of bricks or cement up ladders from the age of 14 - don't suppose I could do it now, though!
You also have to bear in mind that in the days we'm talking about, heavy lifting was "man's work", in this day and age we have equal opportunities so if the maids wants to hump baggage (or their handlers!) they are more than welcome! Now, the odd 32kg bag would cause much of a problem to the hairy-ar5ed community below the Terminal, "Black Pudding Bertha", "Sweaty Betty" and their chums would face a considerable challenge!
There is also a considerable difference between lifting the odd heavy bag (into and out of the car for your twice a year holiday) and lifting, raising, twisting and stacking bags for the whole duration of a shift - and as Speedpig knows, many of our loaders do 16 hour "double shifts" regularly to earn sufficient cash to keep up their mortgages, CSA payments etc. (Please also remember that when talking about 737's, Barbie Jets etc, these bags are stacked in the hold by some poor sap on his knees in the aluminium under-belly. I suggest that manoevering 32kg bags whilst in a stooping, crouching or kneeling position can cause loads of things in your body to "pop" or "twang" besides just the back or knees!)
Going back on-topic, please don't make our two senior managers (the ones on special "holiday" during the investigations) be tried, sentenced and condemned before the OFT has concluded its investigations. Much as I am not a "toadie" of our managers, I consider Martin George and our Communications Director to be men of integrity and, whatever else they may be, I am certain they are not dishonest!
You also have to bear in mind that in the days we'm talking about, heavy lifting was "man's work", in this day and age we have equal opportunities so if the maids wants to hump baggage (or their handlers!) they are more than welcome! Now, the odd 32kg bag would cause much of a problem to the hairy-ar5ed community below the Terminal, "Black Pudding Bertha", "Sweaty Betty" and their chums would face a considerable challenge!
There is also a considerable difference between lifting the odd heavy bag (into and out of the car for your twice a year holiday) and lifting, raising, twisting and stacking bags for the whole duration of a shift - and as Speedpig knows, many of our loaders do 16 hour "double shifts" regularly to earn sufficient cash to keep up their mortgages, CSA payments etc. (Please also remember that when talking about 737's, Barbie Jets etc, these bags are stacked in the hold by some poor sap on his knees in the aluminium under-belly. I suggest that manoevering 32kg bags whilst in a stooping, crouching or kneeling position can cause loads of things in your body to "pop" or "twang" besides just the back or knees!)
Going back on-topic, please don't make our two senior managers (the ones on special "holiday" during the investigations) be tried, sentenced and condemned before the OFT has concluded its investigations. Much as I am not a "toadie" of our managers, I consider Martin George and our Communications Director to be men of integrity and, whatever else they may be, I am certain they are not dishonest!
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BBC reporting that it was Virgin that sparked the investigation 
Full story here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5109014.stm
Full story here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5109014.stm
Last edited by Jet2; 23rd Jun 2006 at 14:56.
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Perhaps when the good burgers of consumer law are doing their rounds they can also have a look at the vast sums of EU tax payers monies that have and are being pumped into Alitalia and Air France, futhermore the vast fuel subsidies enjoyed by our American Cousins in busines, social and domestic?
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Forginve my cynicism, but aren't we about to hit another squall in the on-going spat about LHR access? Not to mention the good old Airbus/Boeing subsidy WTO dispute? I can't help wondering if they might be realted to this investigation. But perhaps I do our friends in the DoJ an injustice....
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how low will virgin go to do a dirty on ba
ba has been in the news in the recent weeks some dodgy shiek buying it and now the price fixing scandal with a cartel but in the times today page 7 an article by angela jameson an industrial correspondent, she says quote " a tip off from british airways's arch rival virgin atlantic prompted competetion authorities on both sides of the atlantic to investigate price fixing and collusion at the uk's biggest passenger airline "
the background to the investigation is believed to be a number of conversations last year between, yes get this right a ba executive and a virgin executive regarding the timing and impact of raising fuel surcharges .
virgin executives realising that the conversations contravened competition law,are understood to have approached the oft with evidence
ba and virgin refused to comment on the latter's role
Intresting this is if the oft finds ba guilty thanks to virgin
means ba will lose its dominant position at heathrow to america routes to other airlines and bringing down ticket prices
well good news to slf i suppose
but my question is this (deal or no deal )
did virgin try to do a dirty on ba
it is time to vote off the weakest link
(sorry about the puns i watch too much telly nowadays since i retired from raf)
p.s an online link if you wish from times just to let you know what i am about at http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/arti...237801,00.html
the background to the investigation is believed to be a number of conversations last year between, yes get this right a ba executive and a virgin executive regarding the timing and impact of raising fuel surcharges .
virgin executives realising that the conversations contravened competition law,are understood to have approached the oft with evidence
ba and virgin refused to comment on the latter's role
Intresting this is if the oft finds ba guilty thanks to virgin
means ba will lose its dominant position at heathrow to america routes to other airlines and bringing down ticket prices
well good news to slf i suppose
but my question is this (deal or no deal )
did virgin try to do a dirty on ba
it is time to vote off the weakest link
(sorry about the puns i watch too much telly nowadays since i retired from raf)
p.s an online link if you wish from times just to let you know what i am about at http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/arti...237801,00.html
Sims Fly Virtually
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Surely if BA did approach Virgin, with a suggestion that they should mutually indulge in practices which are against UK law, then Virgin did the correct thing in bringing it to the attention of the relevant authorities?
Had they "colluded", then someone may have approached, say, BMI, and BMI blown the whistle on both.
Admittedly the charges could have very serious implications on BA staff, but, again if, true - you should be blaming BA management, not Richard Branson.
Even if VS were "being a bit sneaky", I seem to recall BA were a bit sneaky too, back in the days before Sir Fred was forced out of the market.
Had they "colluded", then someone may have approached, say, BMI, and BMI blown the whistle on both.
Admittedly the charges could have very serious implications on BA staff, but, again if, true - you should be blaming BA management, not Richard Branson.
Even if VS were "being a bit sneaky", I seem to recall BA were a bit sneaky too, back in the days before Sir Fred was forced out of the market.
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On a sombre note, does anyone know if the troubles at Varig are an opportunity for BA to get back their former 777s G-ZZZD / E which are on lease to the Brazilians. They are still desperate for long haul capacity at EGLL.
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BA Fare thingy
I can't find the thread which the mods moved so i had to create this,
I know the price fixing is wrong, what i don't get is how can BA still be cheaper than virgin to fly on, surely virgin are basically just charging passengers more anyways.
I love virgin and BA by the way. I just couldn't understand how BA can still be cheaper and ripping the passengers off.
Mod comment: Looking for a BA item? Look in the BA thread. Have something BA related to post? Post it in the BA thread.
I know the price fixing is wrong, what i don't get is how can BA still be cheaper than virgin to fly on, surely virgin are basically just charging passengers more anyways.
I love virgin and BA by the way. I just couldn't understand how BA can still be cheaper and ripping the passengers off.
Mod comment: Looking for a BA item? Look in the BA thread. Have something BA related to post? Post it in the BA thread.
It's rather odd the way things pan out with the 'competition' rules. If all the airlines charge £30 extra a sector for fuel and say that they are simply matching their rivals, then that is deemed a competitive marketplace. If some agreed in advance that £30 was reasonable then that is anti-competitive. I suppose it makes some sort of sense from a philosophical point of view but in the end there is precious little difference to the consumer.
If some airlines get fined for things like this who pays in the end? The passengers because the carriers will get the money back somehow...
If some airlines get fined for things like this who pays in the end? The passengers because the carriers will get the money back somehow...
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If some airlines get fined for things like this who pays in the end?
Here in the UK we are taxed to death, what little we are left with after Income Tax and National Insurance gets taxed with "VAT" on nearly everything we buy and there are special duties on fuel, alcohol and pressies for the wife (jewellery).
If the Treasury also receives the proceeds of these sort of fines, where the hell does the money go because they sure as hell don't spend it on the citizens of this green and pleasant land!
Now, getting back On Topic, Speedpig informs me that it isn't unusual for the two senior managers to be sent home on leave and there is no assertion that BA is either admitting their guilt or throwing them to the wolves. It is purely so that BA can't be accused of allowing the two managers involved to shred documents, format hard drives or do anything to corrupt the course of the investigation. .........Nothing sinister at all!
Here in the UK we are taxed to death
Again, back on topic: Maybe BA should add a 10% 'anti-anti-competitive' surcharge to their tickets, just in case...
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Virgin 'shopped' BA ??
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Unless the Virgin exec stuck his fingers in his ears shouting 'tra-la-la; I can't hear you', he/she had no choice but to report the exchange; otherwise it could be alleged that they were complicit in the price fixing too, once the matter became public.
