British Airways
Join Date: Nov 2003
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WHBM is right as the same thing is happening with BA Connect. The adverts scream low prices. As someone who flies a min of 2 sectors per week, there's no sign of the much vaunted £25 quid flights. In fact fares have gone up despite the service having been reduced.
As for conspiracy theories.... what conspiracy. BA Are obviously turning their entire short haul operation in a 'low cost' model. The only problem is that whilst they seem to be more than capable of delivering low cost levels of service they still insist on charging BA prices. They will only succeed if they retain the base load pax, but as they seem to be going out of their way to deliberately p*ss off regular travellers at the moment by reducing service levels, how long do they expect us to be around for?
As for conspiracy theories.... what conspiracy. BA Are obviously turning their entire short haul operation in a 'low cost' model. The only problem is that whilst they seem to be more than capable of delivering low cost levels of service they still insist on charging BA prices. They will only succeed if they retain the base load pax, but as they seem to be going out of their way to deliberately p*ss off regular travellers at the moment by reducing service levels, how long do they expect us to be around for?
Join Date: Mar 2005
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the theory that has being going round the BACON BHX base since BACON was announced,is that LGW SH will soon be joining us as BACON and no longer mainline.well the first announcement made to us in March 2005 was "lower fares".....
i'll go if they pay my rent!
i'll go if they pay my rent!
Join Date: Aug 2005
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I dont think it will become a none mainline airport, the rumor has been doing the rounde ever since BACX was formed. Remember BACON is a regional airline that trials things for mainline. They will move to a BACON business model but it will be far harder to move all the crew onto BACON contracts. You only have to look at the BACX, BRAL fiasco that has been ongoing for years at BACX.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Most of my focus is on South Africa as I live there but the UK is where I grew up and still retain a passing interest.
My first reaction was that in part it was to stick the knife into BMI who it seems aren't doing to well at present. Wipe out that competitor and hey presto more of those highly valued slots at LHR. Possibly they can then move the LGW operation there as well save for the few routes that make money.
BTW I have also wondered what a breakeven load factor would be on an ERJ145 with those £29 fares
My first reaction was that in part it was to stick the knife into BMI who it seems aren't doing to well at present. Wipe out that competitor and hey presto more of those highly valued slots at LHR. Possibly they can then move the LGW operation there as well save for the few routes that make money.
BTW I have also wondered what a breakeven load factor would be on an ERJ145 with those £29 fares
Rebel PPRuNer
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George Tower
who says BA would get bmi's slots? They are bmi to dispose unless bmi folds first, in which case I guess they are BAA's.
who says BA would get bmi's slots? They are bmi to dispose unless bmi folds first, in which case I guess they are BAA's.
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i know i'am going off the subject again but if you want to fly stn to preswick you can get the the train to Glasgow central for half price or the bus for 50p, all you need to do is show your booking confirmation.
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Not any cheaper as far as I can see. I need to be in Barcelona on Monday for around 4pm and return Fri morning. Easy Jet can get me there from Luton for £150, BA want to charge me £666 - economy, same times. A quick look on Singapore Airlines sees that I can currently get to Sydney for £653 for the same period. Unfortunately, my meeting isn't there.
The other problem with BA is they fly from the worst airport in the world. The amount of times I've had the skipper saying "we're 2 seconds early" only to then discover we are on a remote stand and there aren't any buses. Or worse, they park at the domestic gate for an international flight, and then figure out that they need to bus you around. I frequently sit in aircraft for over 40 mins at LHR waiting for the bus. Meanwhile the crew all look at their feet.
The other problem with BA is they fly from the worst airport in the world. The amount of times I've had the skipper saying "we're 2 seconds early" only to then discover we are on a remote stand and there aren't any buses. Or worse, they park at the domestic gate for an international flight, and then figure out that they need to bus you around. I frequently sit in aircraft for over 40 mins at LHR waiting for the bus. Meanwhile the crew all look at their feet.
Join Date: May 2001
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Can I approach this from a different angle? I have just done a trawl round the websites for a medium haul flight from LHR. There were many permutations and combinations of airlines and intermediate stops. Of the direct flights BA were exactly double the price of the alternative carrier who just happens to operate the route from the opposite end if you follow. This by the way is also an ex-state airline !! BA reduce fares by 50%? Bout bloody time, then they might be charging a competitive price with the rest of the world !! 
BC
BC
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The press release talked about seven millions seats per year, and the 'convenience' of flying from Heathrow. In fact, the seats were advertised as from Heathrow and Gatwick only.
Heathrow is hardly convenient unless you happen to live close by, or if you are already at Heathrow. I think it is reasonable to say that BA's Heathrow shorthaul operation is aimed at local business travellers and those connecting with longhaul flights. This is perhaps why it is still a full service operation, and will probably remain so for the foreseeable future. Furthmore, BA is unlikely to poach travellers from the provinces, nor is it unlikely to attract those who find Luton or Stanstead geographically more convenient than Heathrow. Even those closer to Heathrow could easily find the other London airports more convenient for shorthaul flights owing to the vast sprawl or the airport.
Gatwick could be a more effective attack on lo-cost airlines, though. From this airport BA and easyJet compete head on (Ryanair too, though to be fair, they don't fly to the same airports). But the actual number of seats available at low prices is probably few. Seven million seats per year in an attempt to compete head on with the lo-cos is a mere raindrop in the sky: easyJet are now carrying 32million people around Europe, Ryanair slightly more, then add all the other carriers in the UK alone and you have close to 100milliion sears per year on lo-cost airlines - against 7.
This announcement from BA looks clearly to be nothing more than a publicity stunt, and as someone said above, they do something like this every year.
As for a free food, I think I can survive a trip to Europe without in-flight catering, free or not.
Heathrow is hardly convenient unless you happen to live close by, or if you are already at Heathrow. I think it is reasonable to say that BA's Heathrow shorthaul operation is aimed at local business travellers and those connecting with longhaul flights. This is perhaps why it is still a full service operation, and will probably remain so for the foreseeable future. Furthmore, BA is unlikely to poach travellers from the provinces, nor is it unlikely to attract those who find Luton or Stanstead geographically more convenient than Heathrow. Even those closer to Heathrow could easily find the other London airports more convenient for shorthaul flights owing to the vast sprawl or the airport.
Gatwick could be a more effective attack on lo-cost airlines, though. From this airport BA and easyJet compete head on (Ryanair too, though to be fair, they don't fly to the same airports). But the actual number of seats available at low prices is probably few. Seven million seats per year in an attempt to compete head on with the lo-cos is a mere raindrop in the sky: easyJet are now carrying 32million people around Europe, Ryanair slightly more, then add all the other carriers in the UK alone and you have close to 100milliion sears per year on lo-cost airlines - against 7.
This announcement from BA looks clearly to be nothing more than a publicity stunt, and as someone said above, they do something like this every year.
As for a free food, I think I can survive a trip to Europe without in-flight catering, free or not.
Sims Fly Virtually
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Last (October?) I had to go to a meeting in Scotland, and flew BA LGW-EDI. Booked about a week previously, had a choice of flights (at different prices) and took a "medium-price", "medium-convenience" option. Cost £100.
(yes, the computer did offer me the "extra flexibility" for well over £200!)
On the return day, I finished a bit earlier than I expected and could have just about been in time for the earlier flight back to LGW, but was told that it had finished checking in. No mention of whether I'd have to pay any extra if it had been available, but I suspect it would have (it was a more expensive option when I booked - I think it was the 5pm flight, as opposed to my booked 7pm flight))
(Note - the 6 am flights - leave home at 4, check in at 5 - usually have really cheap rates - understandably!!)
There was also another option - £130 or so,to go by train. But that meant a full day travelling in each direction - by air I got to the meeting around lunchtime, and left mid-afternoon, and took total of 2 days.
(yes, the computer did offer me the "extra flexibility" for well over £200!)
On the return day, I finished a bit earlier than I expected and could have just about been in time for the earlier flight back to LGW, but was told that it had finished checking in. No mention of whether I'd have to pay any extra if it had been available, but I suspect it would have (it was a more expensive option when I booked - I think it was the 5pm flight, as opposed to my booked 7pm flight))
(Note - the 6 am flights - leave home at 4, check in at 5 - usually have really cheap rates - understandably!!)
There was also another option - £130 or so,to go by train. But that meant a full day travelling in each direction - by air I got to the meeting around lunchtime, and left mid-afternoon, and took total of 2 days.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Marketing 101
If you look to the US for parallel lessons you see legacy (older) carriers struggling to compete with point to point specialists.
DL will never compete with Air Tran on ATL/BUF for example on a cost per seat mile basis. But they try, so lose dollops of cash. So fares should reflect the value to the customer, hence the outrageous cost of a seat ATL/YUL (more than coach to Japan).
What value is BA versus FR ? Great if you want a multiple leg international flight. Naff if you want Lodon to Prague for a night out. So I submit BA (and all the 'legacy' carriers) needs to get its act together and understand and respect the markets they serve. One size does not fit all these days.
Do what you do well, prospering thereby, and stop doing what you can't ever do well. Pennace maybe for trying to eat Air Europe & Dan Air !!
DL will never compete with Air Tran on ATL/BUF for example on a cost per seat mile basis. But they try, so lose dollops of cash. So fares should reflect the value to the customer, hence the outrageous cost of a seat ATL/YUL (more than coach to Japan).
What value is BA versus FR ? Great if you want a multiple leg international flight. Naff if you want Lodon to Prague for a night out. So I submit BA (and all the 'legacy' carriers) needs to get its act together and understand and respect the markets they serve. One size does not fit all these days.
Do what you do well, prospering thereby, and stop doing what you can't ever do well. Pennace maybe for trying to eat Air Europe & Dan Air !!
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stagn8
Erm...yaaahh! I'll chose EZY over BA, WHEN I know that EZY will act like BA and in the event of a tech would send another aircraft over to bring me back home and not leave me to hope that some poor bugger turns up late for their next flight, only then allowing me to travel. I'll fly FR (ach..) when I know I can cancel my flight and get a refund on my taxes. I'll fly both when I don't feel like one of the great unwashed. MOST full service carriers provide a fantastic service for which people are happy to pay the money for. WRT to food. I'd rather pay £300 quid to BA then FR (for a last minute shorthaul) knowing that on a potentially busy day when I may have missed Lunch and Dinner, I'll be fed SOMETHING (even during the crisps days at BA!!!!) without having to fish about my wallet for whatever dinaros or shekels that FR only take.
The saving grace of the no-frills carriers is that most sensible carriers have differentiated by increasing their level of service . (I allude here to the First Terminal by LH in FRA and BA's overall output NOT BD). Long live them.
Erm...yaaahh! I'll chose EZY over BA, WHEN I know that EZY will act like BA and in the event of a tech would send another aircraft over to bring me back home and not leave me to hope that some poor bugger turns up late for their next flight, only then allowing me to travel. I'll fly FR (ach..) when I know I can cancel my flight and get a refund on my taxes. I'll fly both when I don't feel like one of the great unwashed. MOST full service carriers provide a fantastic service for which people are happy to pay the money for. WRT to food. I'd rather pay £300 quid to BA then FR (for a last minute shorthaul) knowing that on a potentially busy day when I may have missed Lunch and Dinner, I'll be fed SOMETHING (even during the crisps days at BA!!!!) without having to fish about my wallet for whatever dinaros or shekels that FR only take.
The saving grace of the no-frills carriers is that most sensible carriers have differentiated by increasing their level of service . (I allude here to the First Terminal by LH in FRA and BA's overall output NOT BD). Long live them.
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allanmack
Yes I wish BA would just ditch the food altogether, on Europe flights at least, and knock a tenner off the fares. I do have had the BA crisp treatment about a month ago, and was appalled. It wasn't even a proper sized bag of crisps, it was some stupid half sized bag of "posh" crisps, and nothing else.
Yes I wish BA would just ditch the food altogether, on Europe flights at least, and knock a tenner off the fares. I do have had the BA crisp treatment about a month ago, and was appalled. It wasn't even a proper sized bag of crisps, it was some stupid half sized bag of "posh" crisps, and nothing else.
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In January flying from EDI-LHR-EDI I was also subjected to the Crisps. I was very disappointed as it was my first time flying with BA (and indeed to LHR) and their website stated "Complimentary Catering to suit the time of day". Well my flight from EDI was at 9am and the free TINY bag of bread sticks WAS NOT what I'd call Catering, and indeed I was waiting for a roll or All-Day-Deli to be delivered. I could smell food being cooked (I was close to the rear of the cabin) and I thought it would be for us!
The free bar though, can't complain, definitely something Easyjet could introduce, I mean Southwest Airlines in the U.S. offer free soft drinks and tea/coffee and only charge for alcohol and food, surely EJ are making more than enough money to offer a similar service, same with FR, although I wont hold my breath...
On the return leg, we flew home at Dinner time (5pm departure) and again I was expecting at least a roll, but no, we got handed out a small bag of plain crisps...and they only came round once with drinks. The B757 was practically empty as well, so its not as if the crew had a big load to deal with.
My sister flew with BA on a school trip from GLA-LHR-PHX/LAX-LHR-GLA last June, and on her GLA-LHR-GLA flights she got a Full breakfast on her way down (okay, very early morning flight, so expected there) and on the way home (a 5pm departure, like my one in Jan) she got smoked salmon AND a desert too.
I am hoping to get proper catering this summer when I fly from LGW-PRG (12pm departure) and then again from BUD-LHR (7pm departure). Even if we don't the free bar will be there and the flights were still cheaper than doing the same thing with EJ anyway!
The free bar though, can't complain, definitely something Easyjet could introduce, I mean Southwest Airlines in the U.S. offer free soft drinks and tea/coffee and only charge for alcohol and food, surely EJ are making more than enough money to offer a similar service, same with FR, although I wont hold my breath...
On the return leg, we flew home at Dinner time (5pm departure) and again I was expecting at least a roll, but no, we got handed out a small bag of plain crisps...and they only came round once with drinks. The B757 was practically empty as well, so its not as if the crew had a big load to deal with.
My sister flew with BA on a school trip from GLA-LHR-PHX/LAX-LHR-GLA last June, and on her GLA-LHR-GLA flights she got a Full breakfast on her way down (okay, very early morning flight, so expected there) and on the way home (a 5pm departure, like my one in Jan) she got smoked salmon AND a desert too.
I am hoping to get proper catering this summer when I fly from LGW-PRG (12pm departure) and then again from BUD-LHR (7pm departure). Even if we don't the free bar will be there and the flights were still cheaper than doing the same thing with EJ anyway!
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Originally Posted by derekvader
Yes I wish BA would just ditch the food altogether, on Europe flights at least, and knock a tenner off the fares. I do have had the BA crisp treatment about a month ago, and was appalled. It wasn't even a proper sized bag of crisps, it was some stupid half sized bag of "posh" crisps, and nothing else.
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BA Report 21% Annual Profit Increase
No doubt of some importance to some in the industry:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4996458.stm
Jordan
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4996458.stm
Jordan