Loganair
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Just read on-line about Loganair's record £2.2 million profit ! Whatever the reasoning behind the departure of the CEO, Loganair certainly seems to be doing better than ever. Heard rumours about flybe / Loganair tie up too, but seems to be just speculation, following on from BA Connect purchase - LC previously fed into BA Connect flights to MAN/BHX/SOU, why not feed into flybe instead, but cant see flybe or LC wanting the hassle. If Loganair or BA decide in 2008 not to extend the franchise it would make sense surely for them to do what Air Southwest have done and go it alone with on-line sales. No franchise fees to pay and no need for a big call centre like you used to need prior to the internet. Either way Loganair's big news this week wasnt doom & gloom and seems to be positive for a change !
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Some good ideas regarding the announcement tomorrow, but not quite correct.
There will be no tie up with flybe, but there will be a 'carve up'!
I think you will find that flybe will offload some of the BA Connect routes and aircraft/crews to Loganair.
The franchise is a non event as it is not for renewal until 2008, that is a long way away in an aviation time scale.
There will be no tie up with flybe, but there will be a 'carve up'!
I think you will find that flybe will offload some of the BA Connect routes and aircraft/crews to Loganair.
The franchise is a non event as it is not for renewal until 2008, that is a long way away in an aviation time scale.
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Well done Loganair, plenty of time to worry about BA going through one of it's retrenchments later! Actually the Loganair brand never really disappeared in the same way after taking up BA titles as some, say GB Airways did. It could re-emerge if necessary without the same degree of anonymity.
Just to say that as TriStar500 says "Economics rules"! Yes they do and they say that given the choice, people will take a jet over a prop every time, so flying to Europe from Scotland on the Q400 is a REALLY bad move IMHO.
Just to say that as TriStar500 says "Economics rules"! Yes they do and they say that given the choice, people will take a jet over a prop every time, so flying to Europe from Scotland on the Q400 is a REALLY bad move IMHO.
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Some good ideas regarding the announcement tomorrow, but not quite correct.
There will be no tie up with flybe, but there will be a 'carve up'!
I think you will find that flybe will offload some of the BA Connect routes and aircraft/crews to Loganair.
The franchise is a non event as it is not for renewal until 2008, that is a long way away in an aviation time scale.
There will be no tie up with flybe, but there will be a 'carve up'!
I think you will find that flybe will offload some of the BA Connect routes and aircraft/crews to Loganair.
The franchise is a non event as it is not for renewal until 2008, that is a long way away in an aviation time scale.
Look what WW gave time-wise to BAConnect. 2 years and all they got was a matter of months. Beware of the 'little-man from accross the water'
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Well done Loganair, plenty of time to worry about BA going through one of it's retrenchments later! Actually the Loganair brand never really disappeared in the same way after taking up BA titles as some, say GB Airways did. It could re-emerge if necessary without the same degree of anonymity.
Just to say that as TriStar500 says "Economics rules"! Yes they do and they say that given the choice, people will take a jet over a prop every time, so flying to Europe from Scotland on the Q400 is a REALLY bad move IMHO.
Just to say that as TriStar500 says "Economics rules"! Yes they do and they say that given the choice, people will take a jet over a prop every time, so flying to Europe from Scotland on the Q400 is a REALLY bad move IMHO.
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You have never flown from Scotland to Europe in a prop mate, have you? All across the cold North Sea.
You wouldn't want to. Hardly anyone does,it's not a money spinner. As a business decsion, it's' a no brainer. If it's a business heavy route, it's too far and slow in a prop and so you need a jet. If it's a leisure route, 70 seats is too small for the market and Ryanair, easyJet or Globespan would eat you alive, simply because they can with their cost base.
All you're proving is that you have a south east mind set..... Go consult a map
You wouldn't want to. Hardly anyone does,it's not a money spinner. As a business decsion, it's' a no brainer. If it's a business heavy route, it's too far and slow in a prop and so you need a jet. If it's a leisure route, 70 seats is too small for the market and Ryanair, easyJet or Globespan would eat you alive, simply because they can with their cost base.
All you're proving is that you have a south east mind set..... Go consult a map
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You have never flown from Scotland to Europe in a prop mate, have you? All across the cold North Sea.
You wouldn't want to. Hardly anyone does,it's not a money spinner. As a business decsion, it's' a no brainer. If it's a business heavy route, it's too far and slow in a prop and so you need a jet. If it's a leisure route, 70 seats is too small for the market and Ryanair, easyJet or Globespan would eat you alive, simply because they can with their cost base.
All you're proving is that you have a south east mind set..... Go consult a map
You wouldn't want to. Hardly anyone does,it's not a money spinner. As a business decsion, it's' a no brainer. If it's a business heavy route, it's too far and slow in a prop and so you need a jet. If it's a leisure route, 70 seats is too small for the market and Ryanair, easyJet or Globespan would eat you alive, simply because they can with their cost base.
All you're proving is that you have a south east mind set..... Go consult a map
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You have never flown from Scotland to Europe in a prop mate, have you? All across the cold North Sea.
You wouldn't want to. Hardly anyone does,it's not a money spinner. As a business decsion, it's' a no brainer. If it's a business heavy route, it's too far and slow in a prop and so you need a jet. If it's a leisure route, 70 seats is too small for the market and Ryanair, easyJet or Globespan would eat you alive, simply because they can with their cost base.
All you're proving is that you have a south east mind set..... Go consult a map
You wouldn't want to. Hardly anyone does,it's not a money spinner. As a business decsion, it's' a no brainer. If it's a business heavy route, it's too far and slow in a prop and so you need a jet. If it's a leisure route, 70 seats is too small for the market and Ryanair, easyJet or Globespan would eat you alive, simply because they can with their cost base.
All you're proving is that you have a south east mind set..... Go consult a map
Wideroe have been doing it for years, I've done it and found it like any other flight. The Q400 has exceptional performance against a Jet, and as accountants are running the world, they will dictate what flys where.
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Bearing in mind we are talking about Scotland here which was my whole point really :
Aberdeen still has Wideroe and SAS but is that much closer
There's more I know.
So central belt to Europe in a prop :
EGPF
Wideroe from Glasgow to Bergen (1997- ) in a DHC8 axed.
SAS from Glasgow to Stavanger (1992-), in a F50 axed.
DLT to Dusseldorf in a F50, ended in favour of a 737 to Frankfurt in 1992.....
EGPH
Sun Air to Billund in an ATP / Do328 twice a week
Come on EDI peeps I know there are a few more. Anyway what you can't get away from is that if you run a Dash from the south coast to the continent you can do more sectors per day than if you go all the way to EDI / GLA, and hence make more money. And in a niche market, that's what people do, and is why they are not queuing up to base Q400s in Scotland to fly to Europe. I understand that people see benefits in the operation of next gen props and that's fine if I was going to Belfast or perhaps down to Exeter but all the way to Frankfurt in a Q400 vs a quick connection at LHR means most regular flyers choose the tried and tested.
I am not denigrating props but given an A319 or a Q400 I know which I prefer. And before I get yelled at again, ( I can take it ), just list for me three prospective routes and operators from central Scotland to Europe in a prop that are in the offing.
Aberdeen still has Wideroe and SAS but is that much closer
There's more I know.
So central belt to Europe in a prop :
EGPF
Wideroe from Glasgow to Bergen (1997- ) in a DHC8 axed.
SAS from Glasgow to Stavanger (1992-), in a F50 axed.
DLT to Dusseldorf in a F50, ended in favour of a 737 to Frankfurt in 1992.....
EGPH
Sun Air to Billund in an ATP / Do328 twice a week
Come on EDI peeps I know there are a few more. Anyway what you can't get away from is that if you run a Dash from the south coast to the continent you can do more sectors per day than if you go all the way to EDI / GLA, and hence make more money. And in a niche market, that's what people do, and is why they are not queuing up to base Q400s in Scotland to fly to Europe. I understand that people see benefits in the operation of next gen props and that's fine if I was going to Belfast or perhaps down to Exeter but all the way to Frankfurt in a Q400 vs a quick connection at LHR means most regular flyers choose the tried and tested.
I am not denigrating props but given an A319 or a Q400 I know which I prefer. And before I get yelled at again, ( I can take it ), just list for me three prospective routes and operators from central Scotland to Europe in a prop that are in the offing.
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Skipness One Echo
I agree with your point's but I can't see anybody operating new direct routes form Scotland to Europe because of the demographics, that counts for all operators jet or props.
Getting back to Loganair, has anyone heard of the so called announcement?
I agree with your point's but I can't see anybody operating new direct routes form Scotland to Europe because of the demographics, that counts for all operators jet or props.
Getting back to Loganair, has anyone heard of the so called announcement?
.
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Skipness One Echo said: "I understand that people see benefits in the operation of next gen props and that's fine if I was going to Belfast or perhaps down to Exeter but all the way to Frankfurt in a Q400 vs a quick connection at LHR means most regular flyers choose the tried and tested."
Just one question skipness: Have you ever had a quick connection at Heathrow let alone any other major UK airport? At LHR the minimum recommended time for a connection at least an hour, a lot more if you need to change terminals. Why bother with that if you can fly direct, all be it in a turboprop?
I think you will find that a certain UK Q400 operator is proving very successful at encouraging people to fly to Europe from regional airports avoiding these nonsense and hasslesome connections. And I'd rather do it in a Q400 than a Emb 145 any day!
Just one question skipness: Have you ever had a quick connection at Heathrow let alone any other major UK airport? At LHR the minimum recommended time for a connection at least an hour, a lot more if you need to change terminals. Why bother with that if you can fly direct, all be it in a turboprop?
I think you will find that a certain UK Q400 operator is proving very successful at encouraging people to fly to Europe from regional airports avoiding these nonsense and hasslesome connections. And I'd rather do it in a Q400 than a Emb 145 any day!
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I think you will find that a certain UK Q400 operator is proving very successful at encouraging people to fly to Europe from regional airports avoiding these nonsense and hasslesome connections. And I'd rather do it in a Q400 than a Emb 145 any day!
Try lisiting the ERJ145 and Q400 routes from Scotland and you'll see what I mean. And yes I have transferred succesfully at LHR many a time.
Try lisiting the ERJ145 and Q400 routes from Scotland and you'll see what I mean. And yes I have transferred succesfully at LHR many a time.
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Skipness ... I wasn't shouting, just purely pointing out if the operator can find a route with sufficient demand to operator a direct flight from Scotland to Europe then they would offer it. And that a direct flight whether in a prop or not would be preferrable to many passengers to a 60min transfer at LHR.
You are right there is no one offering routes to Europe on a prop, doesn't mean it won't happen, as you said you need to balance the increased sector time and therefore reduced number of sectors that aircraft can now do in its days with the profit you can make from such routes. Wouldn't be surprised though if the Q400 did start going from Scotland to Scandinavia and near Europe direct. But who on earth knows what the game plan is.
You are right there is no one offering routes to Europe on a prop, doesn't mean it won't happen, as you said you need to balance the increased sector time and therefore reduced number of sectors that aircraft can now do in its days with the profit you can make from such routes. Wouldn't be surprised though if the Q400 did start going from Scotland to Scandinavia and near Europe direct. But who on earth knows what the game plan is.
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Flybe and Loganair talking
Interest rumours going on re BE and LC (Loganair). I can’t see Flybe having any strategic interest in the LC going forward.
I think they are talking about a transfer of some thinner routes that may suit LC better than BE. Examples include BHD/ABZ, BHD/INV, also a number of routes from Scottish airport where BE does not have a base egs include Inv and Abz. There are a number of other routes on the Flybe and Bacon network that BE would see as more fitting with Loganair. BE has stated it will have Q400 as smallest aircraft once Bacon types are phased out , hence, a number of routes would be too thin for a Q400. It is also possible that Flybe is talking to LC about selling aircraft to them. The DH8s of Bacon of example
LC made a good profit this year but despite this, I don’t think that they can compete very well. In most instances they have withdrawn against the competition. BHD/GLA, BHD/EDI are examples. The reduction in management may be an indication that the company is cutting costs to ensure that they are in the market long term
FR are opening PIK LDY in December, it will be interesting to see if LC continue the GLA/LDY route? I am not sure. The result may be an end to LC at Derry. Will Aer Arann then be contracted to fly LDY/DUB for LC? Interesting times ahead.
I think they are talking about a transfer of some thinner routes that may suit LC better than BE. Examples include BHD/ABZ, BHD/INV, also a number of routes from Scottish airport where BE does not have a base egs include Inv and Abz. There are a number of other routes on the Flybe and Bacon network that BE would see as more fitting with Loganair. BE has stated it will have Q400 as smallest aircraft once Bacon types are phased out , hence, a number of routes would be too thin for a Q400. It is also possible that Flybe is talking to LC about selling aircraft to them. The DH8s of Bacon of example
LC made a good profit this year but despite this, I don’t think that they can compete very well. In most instances they have withdrawn against the competition. BHD/GLA, BHD/EDI are examples. The reduction in management may be an indication that the company is cutting costs to ensure that they are in the market long term
FR are opening PIK LDY in December, it will be interesting to see if LC continue the GLA/LDY route? I am not sure. The result may be an end to LC at Derry. Will Aer Arann then be contracted to fly LDY/DUB for LC? Interesting times ahead.
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Loganair to (re)introduce Orkney to Fair Isle service
From online 'The Orcadian'
Loganair is to introduce twice-weekly flights between Orkney and Fair Isle this summer.
From May 25 until October 7, passengers can fly from Kirkwall to Fair Isle, via North Ronaldsay, on Thursday and Sundays.
Jim Cameron, chief executive of Loganair, said: “We believe the link between the two bird-watching centres of Fair Isle and North Ronaldsay will encourage eco-tourism to the islands as well as improving links between Fair Isle and Orkney.”
Loganair is to introduce twice-weekly flights between Orkney and Fair Isle this summer.
From May 25 until October 7, passengers can fly from Kirkwall to Fair Isle, via North Ronaldsay, on Thursday and Sundays.
Jim Cameron, chief executive of Loganair, said: “We believe the link between the two bird-watching centres of Fair Isle and North Ronaldsay will encourage eco-tourism to the islands as well as improving links between Fair Isle and Orkney.”