Loganair
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A logical assumption to make but not necessarily.The 2000 is an expensive airplane to run, not to mention its poor reliability record. As ecj says,contrary to popular belief it is a completely different type rating to the 340, with no commonality at all. There aren't all that many about, I think they only built 60 odd. And Eastern may be snapping up the remaining ones. In saying that the airplane is a beast, but perhaps more suited to longer sectors where that 380 knots can really be exploited.
Would have thought ATR maybe better. Cheap to run, reliable but best of all if routes get even busier crews are dual rated on the 72.
Mind you the fokker did well on the routes with denim - you never know!
Would have thought ATR maybe better. Cheap to run, reliable but best of all if routes get even busier crews are dual rated on the 72.
Mind you the fokker did well on the routes with denim - you never know!
Last edited by silverknapper; 21st Oct 2006 at 11:26.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
'There was a recent visit by a Saab 2000 to Glasgow , the a/c was there on behalf of Saab and was on show to Loganair management !'
From a HIAL Airports forum. Rumour or fact?
Nothing on the Logan press release pages (yet).
'There was a recent visit by a Saab 2000 to Glasgow , the a/c was there on behalf of Saab and was on show to Loganair management !'
From a HIAL Airports forum. Rumour or fact?
Nothing on the Logan press release pages (yet).
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ya! The big SAAB was over last year I think it was, just for a look see. Remember it being shoved into the hangar for the day. I think SAAB were / are eager to give the surplus a/c homes and since Eastern are happily receiving machines Loganair will be left alone after the lukewarm reception.
It's a very different animal altogether besides they are just as better off getting a newer type in.
ATR were also coming up to say hello at the same time until LC revealed they weren't interested in commitment to buy/lease yet.
The ATR 42 is the best bet followed by the Dash 8 although they'll probably opt for older versions rather than the shiney -500 or Q300's. The oldest 340 is coming up to 20 years old now with the others well through middle age considering they've only had SAABs for 7 years the next type can't really be one of the extinct types mentioned i.e. SAAB 2000 / Fokker 50 etc. The choice is limited.
2008 is the year in which we'll find out I reckon with franchise's not to be renewed and the Otter PSO's not to renew too!!
PP
It's a very different animal altogether besides they are just as better off getting a newer type in.
ATR were also coming up to say hello at the same time until LC revealed they weren't interested in commitment to buy/lease yet.
The ATR 42 is the best bet followed by the Dash 8 although they'll probably opt for older versions rather than the shiney -500 or Q300's. The oldest 340 is coming up to 20 years old now with the others well through middle age considering they've only had SAABs for 7 years the next type can't really be one of the extinct types mentioned i.e. SAAB 2000 / Fokker 50 etc. The choice is limited.
2008 is the year in which we'll find out I reckon with franchise's not to be renewed and the Otter PSO's not to renew too!!
PP
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take the High Road...
From whats been happening over the past few days at Birdseed Airways, I really do think that Loganair will be a 'stand-a-lone' operator in the very near future.
WHY? Reason being is that BA mainline are probably (to be decided upon within a few weeks) going to farm out all ground handling operations at the regional UK airports as has been done round Europe and the longhaul network recently. At present Loganair get a very very good price for handling - been told, true or false, that it costs them around £18.00 per aircraft turnaround at EDI. For this pocketmoney fee, they get all checkin facilities, boarding facilities, ticketdesk, loaders, baggage office, dispatch and the use of the execlounge (gold and silver card holders only). Not only that but when Loganair get delays through weather, technical or crewing, BA deals with the passengers taking groundstaff away from other flights...
Now, as is common knowledge there is no love lost between Willie Walsh and the Loganair team. It wouldnt bother Willie Walsh one bit, if Loganair came along tomorrow and said they were off. Beleive me. It has been noted that WW hates franchises and why would Scott Grier go public some months ago in a newspaper saying that he was most dissapointed that WW had not even bothered to pick up the phone and introduce himself! Lets get real here. Loganair couldnt afford to pay any more to BA for handling, and that being the case, could they go it alone? Maybe a merger with another carrier - Scotairways or bmi regional)?
At the time of the franchise deal, it was good for BA and good for Loganair. BA got Brand expansion, recognition and publicity and Loganair got some much needed investment in terms of routes, passengers and a fixed-term deal to keep them going. Now things have changed, as management have come and go. BA seems to beleive that T5 at LHR is the 'be-all and end-all' and thats it. WW doesnt care how you get there, just get to LHR T5 and BA will be happy to take you around the world...
WHY? Reason being is that BA mainline are probably (to be decided upon within a few weeks) going to farm out all ground handling operations at the regional UK airports as has been done round Europe and the longhaul network recently. At present Loganair get a very very good price for handling - been told, true or false, that it costs them around £18.00 per aircraft turnaround at EDI. For this pocketmoney fee, they get all checkin facilities, boarding facilities, ticketdesk, loaders, baggage office, dispatch and the use of the execlounge (gold and silver card holders only). Not only that but when Loganair get delays through weather, technical or crewing, BA deals with the passengers taking groundstaff away from other flights...
Now, as is common knowledge there is no love lost between Willie Walsh and the Loganair team. It wouldnt bother Willie Walsh one bit, if Loganair came along tomorrow and said they were off. Beleive me. It has been noted that WW hates franchises and why would Scott Grier go public some months ago in a newspaper saying that he was most dissapointed that WW had not even bothered to pick up the phone and introduce himself! Lets get real here. Loganair couldnt afford to pay any more to BA for handling, and that being the case, could they go it alone? Maybe a merger with another carrier - Scotairways or bmi regional)?
At the time of the franchise deal, it was good for BA and good for Loganair. BA got Brand expansion, recognition and publicity and Loganair got some much needed investment in terms of routes, passengers and a fixed-term deal to keep them going. Now things have changed, as management have come and go. BA seems to beleive that T5 at LHR is the 'be-all and end-all' and thats it. WW doesnt care how you get there, just get to LHR T5 and BA will be happy to take you around the world...
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pass?
Age: 49
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is going on at Loganair?.
Been on the Flight website looking for jobs and found that most of the management have left.
Has there been a falling out?, or something more sinister?.
Been on the Flight website looking for jobs and found that most of the management have left.
Has there been a falling out?, or something more sinister?.
Rebel PPRuNer
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Toronto, Canada (formerly EICK)
Age: 51
Posts: 2,834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Willie hates anything smaller than 32x. He got rid of props and RJs at EI and the same is happening at BA. Logiebear should be having a conversation with other parties ASAP.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pass?
Age: 49
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the jungle drums are correct Mr French was seen with Mr Grier a few days ago.......
I do hope whatever happens that it all works out, I'm one of BACON's people wondering if I'll be employed after Christmas.
I do hope whatever happens that it all works out, I'm one of BACON's people wondering if I'll be employed after Christmas.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While Flybe's enlarged operations out of GLA and EDI certainly would be attractive from a network point of view, I simply do not see the benefit of franchising the Flybe brand as their product does not allow to make connections - I would think that is what all the BA franchising is about: Connections from the Highlands and Islands to south of the border. For just the local market, branding is quite a waste of money.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given that Loganair's CEO and Director of Engineering have 'resigned' in the last week there is obviously something in the offing. Why would Flybe want to buy out Loganair, all they have to do is provide competition on present routes and undercut present £250+ fares to wipe them off the map, c'est la vie..........................
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Age: 61
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well the pilots have been earning their pay (those that haven't split, anyway) so let's hope the management can earn theirs now.
Rumours (but don't quote me
) are of an announcement on Thursday, we shall see.....
Rumours (but don't quote me
) are of an announcement on Thursday, we shall see.....
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Age: 61
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No idea, purely mentioned on a nightstop by someone who may or may not have a scooby. I thought I would just contribute to the general air of anticipation in a scurrilous manner 
. I don't spend enough time in the office to have any insider stuff. Thankfully. Hope it all goes well though, Loganair's good fun.
. I don't spend enough time in the office to have any insider stuff. Thankfully. Hope it all goes well though, Loganair's good fun.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe it takes a bit of competition on the Scottish network for anyone really to 'wake up and smell the coffee'... Maybe Loganair with the BA franchise deal had it good. How could it fail with BA slapped all over Loganair aircraft, timetables and website. Connecting passengers only had ONE choice - LOGANAIR - connecting from the major Scottish Airports to the Highlands and Islands. Times have changed and money is tighter now with all thats going on at BA. Franchise deals are despised by WW at Waterworld, thats no secret. flybe are expanding merrily and have a better-suited style of management and route structure than Bully Boy BA. Massive Eurpoean coverage now with flybe and on the domestic front, almost every major airport covered. Loganair would make the perfect partner and that would even let them expand their network, leaving flybe to do the longer range and slightly higher density routes. Loganair have the expertise and staff in the Highlands and Islands and thats essential, giving confidence to the communities up there, the passengers and the Scottish Executive. Maybe the SAAB 340 isnt the best aircraft to operate but it does the job. Newer and slightly larger aircraft such as the Dash 8-300 and ATR models would make an improvement, but without a merger or a franchise deal with another carrier, the cost of renewing the ageing SAAB fleet is a very tall order for Loganair alone - even with the Scottish Execs financial assistance to supply air travel to remote regions of Scotland.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TriStar I doubt that a Loganair / FlyBe tie up is anything more than a forced and desperate move. It makes little sense, the feed from Stornoway to Exeter would be.......shall we say small and as for European coverage, that's a daft idea in the 21st century to do it in a DHC8 from as far north as Scotland. I'll stick to getting their at speed thanks. The speed of the Q400 is impressive but not so much across the North Sea......
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No doubt of limited demand from SYY-EXT. It would be just as it is now........ Think about it. Instead of connecting to BA, in say EDI, the passengers would connect to flybe. Loganair may even introduce longer sector flights for example to hubs such as BHX or MAN and then connect the passengers on. Why not?
As it stands now, flybe have inherrited EDI-CDG and EDI-HAM. During the summer flybe operated EDI-JER on the Dash 8-400. Albeit a charter flight it is still a considerable distance. Wideroe orperate the Dash 8-1/2/3 from Edinburgh to Norway - over the North Sea. Speed isnt always the deciding factor when scheduling flights and pricing tickets... Economics prevail my friend.
As it stands now, flybe have inherrited EDI-CDG and EDI-HAM. During the summer flybe operated EDI-JER on the Dash 8-400. Albeit a charter flight it is still a considerable distance. Wideroe orperate the Dash 8-1/2/3 from Edinburgh to Norway - over the North Sea. Speed isnt always the deciding factor when scheduling flights and pricing tickets... Economics prevail my friend.