PRESTWICK

[G-AWZK]

G-Awzk it is early days and peole need to give new owners time. Yeah things are.not good pr at the moment but you cant expect things to change over night. Patience.

The new owners have been in charge for a year now and so far the "successes" are a massive reduction in passenger flights, a huge amount spent needlessly on the duty free area, an ageing and crumbling terminal that is long past its sell by date and still there is a vast amount of air freight being trucked down the M74 from Scotland to EMA, STN and LHR. Whatever happened to the teardown company that was planning to start? Scared away by the management because they can make more out of ad hoc leases to BA instead of long term leases?

How much patience do you expect people to have?

Instead of making a clear sign that the new owners meant business and put in a new fresh enthusiastic team of managers the new owners kept the previous team "for continuity" and we see the results. There was a window of opportunity, that is now all but closed.

Airports cannot survive on training, diversion and tech stop traffic. Sending Greer and Landmark away - with the attendant job losses - is sending all the wrong signals.

[Joe Curry]

the same could be said about your efforts although clearly not GLA shaped

A lot of double standards here..why is the flak always directed at me?

[malcolm380]

good grief.... this thread seems to have become a metaphor for the airport itself.

[Facelookbovvered]

Winsock

I'll keep this simple for you to understand.

I'm a UK tax payer and i hate waste of any kind because i'd rather piss my taxes up against the wall as have the Government do it for me.

What is going on at PIK is plain wrong, there is no strategy, no vision, if this was a private airport i really couldn't give a stuff whether it continued to make a loss or not, it would be a matter for the share holders, but its sate owned and funded, it serves only to undermine other Scottish airports & GLA in particular, there is no overriding social or strategic need for this airport to be funded by the tax payer.

Every penny (and there are millions of them) spent propping up PIK is money that is not available for schools and education in Scotland, let alone hospital and health care, yes it protects a few jobs for a little longer, so what jobs come and go across the UK on a daily basis

Why not build an international airport at St Kilda that is how daft your pro PIK argument is, at least someone might want to visit there!!!

[apron alpha]

Wasnt a vision and strategy not out lined last week? Facelookbovverd did you not read it? Things are starting to move along. Lets see what happens in coming months ahead and get this place turned around as we all want too see happening.......

[G-AWZK]

Things are starting to move along.

can you give us an idea what these "things" are?

The vision and strategy appears to be totally reliant on Ryanair and spaceships.

[ScotsSLF]

Jeez this thread is getting pathetic and tiresome. I have a number of pleas:

1. Keep politics out of this where possible . This forum isn't for spouting off about either your political beliefs or your moans and groans about supposed waste of public spend. Every council in the UK is guilty of dubious projects as is the various governments across the UK so get off your high horse and take your argument to your local MSP, MLA, MP or MEP.

2. If you're going to be either negative or positive about PIK then back your claims up with facts. Some of the negativity is pathetic and appears based on major 'chips on shoulders' whilst there is a huge amount also of 'blind faith' and 'rose tinted specs' . Rumours are fine, facts are better and if you have a moan put forward a suggestion for improvement. Don't also say things are happening or improving without statement of fact. Your just giving the trolls fuel for abuse.

3. Let's keep the GLA v EDI bile out of the thread.

Now can we get back to rumours and facts?

[Skipness One Echo]

1. Keep politics out of this where possible

Nope, not going to happen. The Scottish Government has stepped in to undermine both GLA and EDI by chucking money at a loss making business which has just lost the bulk of it's main based carrier to said GLA and whose strategic decision was to force out two succesful private enterprisies in favour of it's in house business.

This is POLITICS now.

[12-30 Wind Sock]

Skipness - the two companies leaving are due to the airport restructuring. Potential business for prestwick own handling staff. Makes sense. Its not politics its business..

Well said scotsslf and apron alpha

G-awzk - repairs and works being carried on airfield.. A new board in.place.. Potential space program. And decision.on pax duty tax

Facey so it ok for government to waste tax payers money on illegal wars. ? Spending.bilions of pounds.. Your ok about that arent you.. Maybe u really are the idiot


Well said joe curry... Its so obvious..

As 23c its none of your.business

NEXT

[G-AWZK]

G-awzk - repairs and works being carried on airfield.. A new board in.place.. Potential space program. And decision.on pax duty tax

The repairs are desperately needed. Infratil left the place in a shocking state, just bringing the airport up to an acceptable standard is something that would be needed regardless, but it doesn't make it more attractive than GLA or EDI to an airline.

The spaceport? Well that is by no means certain now is it? There are another 6 airports in the running, and given Virgin Galactic's recent problem there is no guarantee that commercial space flight will even happen. We can talk about the operational issues later.

APD? That political hot potato has a very long way to go before that is anywhere near resolved.

When was the new board appointed? Who are they?

[Skipness One Echo]

So the FBOs are forced out to protect jobs at PIK Handling. Or.......succesful private sector businesses made to leave to prop up state owned company.

How will space rockets be handled in the TMA? I mean come on man, the Virgin Galactic pipe dream is over, it's in bloodstained pieces in the Mojave desert. Pax Duty Free is going to be irrelevant as there are passengers only for an hour each day.

[Cyrano]

Some posters on this and other threads look at airports as businesses and discuss them from a commercial point of view: what's the outlook for the business, is the strategy sound, and so on. Given the difficult landscape for smaller airports all over the world, that outlook is often questionable. Expressing doubt about the commercial future of an airline or airport isn't the same as wishing for the human misfortune that failure would bring.

Other posters look at airports like football teams: they cheer for their local airport. They want to see it succeed. Indeed they have faith that it will succeed despite external questioning. Ultimately their argument is a faith-based one (and maybe outsiders' critical questioning pushes them to more extreme defence, or to deny the right of outsiders to get involved.).

It seems to me that there will never be agreement between these points of view - it's what the French call a "dialogue of the deaf".

I'll wait to get flamed now from one side or another.

[Facelookbovvered]

Wind sock

I said before i hate waste period.

Illegal war is a point a view not a point of law.

Space program !! your having a laugh Major Tom

Idiot well?? all i can say is that I'm the one sat in the sun in a €900.000 home and your in PIK so perhaps your right i am an idiot

Agree 100% with Skipness the Scottish office/admin or whatever its called this week buying the airport made it politics.

I shall leave this thread in peace until something meaningful happens one way or another

[12-30 Wind Sock]

Facey baby. You been on the babyshams tonight.?.. i heard you were part of prestwick team trying to win the space program.. As you have experiencebof being a space cadet.. Lots of love major tom.

Ps. Whos house have u broken into ?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

12-30 Wind Sock

Whilst your devotion to the struggling business that is PIK is admirable, the value of your contribution to this discussion is diminishing rapidly as your rage consumes you. Facey baby … Whos house have u broken into? [sic]. Seriously? Is this now your level? Are you still in primary school?

Have a good read of Cyrano's post. Then read it again. He is spot on. Take his message to heart.

Several of these airport threads have become infested by deluded individuals who harangue serious posters to cease contributing because their views are deemed "negative", or the news they report is considered "bad". Aviation is a dynamic industry. Stuff happens. Good and bad. Deal with it.

The first 'P' in PPRuNe stands for "Professional". That's right, this is a forum which exists to enable aviation professionals to report and discuss the issues affecting the industry. The industry which provides their livelihoods. Amateurs deem the news items discussed 'good' or 'bad'. Professionals consider them 'useful to know'. It is good to be well-informed.

I note that enthusiasts and keen amateurs are broadly tolerated on PPRuNe and that is a very good thing. Many aviation industry leaders started out as enthusiasts. Certainly many pilots and ATC staff did. It is difficult to pursue challenging and often expensive career training without having a passion for aviation in the first place. So allowance is made for those with limited knowledge of the subject. BUT … not to the extent of allowing genuine professionals to be harassed and hounded away from serious debate because some schoolkid or late-night-loon doesn't like reading "bad news" about "their" airport. Can you not see how absurd it is to demand that posters not discuss key issues because you think they're "too negative"? Just how informed will the professionals be if you harangue anyone who doesn't post happy-clappy news and opinion? PPRuNe requires relevant topical content from across the [good/bad news] spectrum if it is to remain a valuable resource for aviation professionals.

It is time to grow up. If you can't cope with adult debate then the problem lies within yourself. The other contributors are not at fault. If you feel that you can contribute to reasoned discussion, well and good. But DO NOT harangue and harass industry professionals who provide valuable insights to leave the forum so that you can indulge your dreams of 'New Heathrow' on your local patch. You are not the only culprit. Every airport board seems to have at least one of its own at present. You know who you are.

Don't stifle debate. Don't declare uncomfortable topics off limits because they're "too negative". If you are inclined to contribute, keep it respectful and constructive. We're allowed to hold different opinions. We're allowed to (respectfully) argue our case. We're not allowed to hurl childish insults at the cream of PPRuNe's valued professional contributors. Do not seek to drive them away, either by direct insult or by reducing the thread content to worthlessness.

I'm interested in PIK's future. Likewise that of DTV, DSA, BLK and many other airports. I read these threads to gain some insights concerning the most recent developments - 'good' and 'bad' alike. I have no interest in reading lovingly crafted positive propaganda. Very few real professionals have.

Now grow up or stick to browsing.

[Leg]

Hey Shed, they are not enthusiasts, they are Spotters

You my friend have got it wrong on a few counts too, Skipness knows
nowt about aviation, he just spouts off from a pax point of view, nothing
wrong with that of course, but then he tries to pretend he knows what
he is talking about on more technical and business points, he doesn't

As for faceache, give us a break

Good luck to PIK, cracking airport, but I feel it's future does depend on getting
Spaceport status, so let's hope it gets it, does appear to be the front runner.

[Facelookbovvered]

Having read the vision strategy document it is very vague probably deliberately when it comes to time scales, returns & delivery.

If it were to be granted space station status it might mean a life line for extra funding, but post the Virgin crash they are now talking 2020 for first flight with punters

What it needs above all is airlines & passengers that can make all PIK problems & detractors go away

[LNIDA]

Shed is right the contribution from many on Pprune is now at a juvenile level.

Leg

Skipness posts show a great depth and understanding of this industry.

As for getting it wrong your comments on Flybe who appear to be exiting Jets show that others have no monopoly on ill informed thought.

Going back to Prestwick when do we see the next milestone or trigger point in its development ? i have also read the PIK document and have to agree its very vague on timescale or indeed how you would measures it performance

[12-30 Wind Sock]

Lnida , im totally shocked that u agree with facey. Considering the fact yous are best friends.


Leg has got it spot on... He can see what.is happening. The forum turning into a moaning negative old folks home.

Shed on a pole - how long did that take u to copy and paste from the internet ? Lol. Me along with others prob stopped reafing after whilst. Zzz

[willy wombat]

One thing that I think is clear is that it cannot be economical to open and run (heat, maintain, staff etc) the existing terminal for sometimes as little as one flight a day. Commercially orientated management (without the State as a back up) should by now have taken the fight back to Ryanair and made it clear that the airport was not run for FR's convenience and that they were not prepared to open the terminal for one flight a day and that Ryanair had to run a "reasonable" program or nothing at all.If the answer was "nothing at all" then at least the management could look at what costs could be saved by mothballing the terminal and concentrating on other activities. I have no desire to see the demise of Prestwick but continuing to keep that terminal, designed for transatlantic flights in the 60s, open for a handful of FR flights doesn't make sense. Only if I see some action being taken to seriously reduce costs in that area will I start to believe that the management team has got some commercial nous.