Ryanair
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Southwest are succesful in their territory, Ryanair is succesful over here, in theres.
What does Ms. Barrett know about the European market with regards to passenger requirements, Passenger's disposable income, Route charges, fuel charges etc (especially compared to the States)??
Does she have the full picture available to her to lambast MoL?? He has done very well over here - of course southwest are bigger - look at the difference in population for Gods sake!
If she has the perfect model, let her come over here and try it - without using any resources form the highly sucessfuul and popular Southwest. That would make the competition fair!
What does Ms. Barrett know about the European market with regards to passenger requirements, Passenger's disposable income, Route charges, fuel charges etc (especially compared to the States)??
Does she have the full picture available to her to lambast MoL?? He has done very well over here - of course southwest are bigger - look at the difference in population for Gods sake!
If she has the perfect model, let her come over here and try it - without using any resources form the highly sucessfuul and popular Southwest. That would make the competition fair!
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Example
Speedrestriction,
I see from your profile you are student pilot - that's great - I hope your course is going well - it's certainly a good time to get qualified.
Maybe you're considering Ryanair when you qualify? Why not, it'd be great to get a first job on a 737 right? Many of us did.
Just an example for you - one of my friends has just been offered a place as a cadet with Ryanair. The deal is:-
he has to pay for his own 737 rating (20k plus)
he receives no salary or payments at all during training
he has to pay all his own accommodation / transport / meal costs during simulator AND line training (40+) sectors for which they can send you anywhere in Europe
Once his base check is complete his salary is £680 a month
He gets NO SECTOR pay at all for 6 months after base saftey pilot release
Half sector pay for the following 6 months
I know young cadets who are so short of money they are sleeping in cars and relying on cabin crew to give them a muffin when they go to work for 12 hours. Ryanair management are nasty.
Don't even get me started on how they treat the cabin crew.. let's just say cheap and nasty is an understatement.
And all this while they post record profits of 302 million!
I see from your profile you are student pilot - that's great - I hope your course is going well - it's certainly a good time to get qualified.
Maybe you're considering Ryanair when you qualify? Why not, it'd be great to get a first job on a 737 right? Many of us did.
Just an example for you - one of my friends has just been offered a place as a cadet with Ryanair. The deal is:-
he has to pay for his own 737 rating (20k plus)
he receives no salary or payments at all during training
he has to pay all his own accommodation / transport / meal costs during simulator AND line training (40+) sectors for which they can send you anywhere in Europe
Once his base check is complete his salary is £680 a month
He gets NO SECTOR pay at all for 6 months after base saftey pilot release
Half sector pay for the following 6 months
I know young cadets who are so short of money they are sleeping in cars and relying on cabin crew to give them a muffin when they go to work for 12 hours. Ryanair management are nasty.
Don't even get me started on how they treat the cabin crew.. let's just say cheap and nasty is an understatement.
And all this while they post record profits of 302 million!
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Anotherthing
You have clearly not read or possibly understood what she said.
Ryanair are very successful financially, no question.
She criticized Ryanairs treatment of passengers. That has nothing to do
with location, customer care is customer care.
As for your comment ref. population I suggest you retake Geography, you will find that the population of Europe far exceeds The USA with a far greater density of population.
You have clearly not read or possibly understood what she said.
Ryanair are very successful financially, no question.
She criticized Ryanairs treatment of passengers. That has nothing to do
with location, customer care is customer care.
As for your comment ref. population I suggest you retake Geography, you will find that the population of Europe far exceeds The USA with a far greater density of population.
As far as locos go, Southwest seems far more like the late, very much missed, buzz.
That was a loco which offered a very pleasant travelling experience indeed!
It would be very interesting indeed if the president of Southwest were to travel incognito on Ryanair and then to report her findings!
That was a loco which offered a very pleasant travelling experience indeed!
It would be very interesting indeed if the president of Southwest were to travel incognito on Ryanair and then to report her findings!
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speedrestriction does tell one side of the story when he says:
"How's about affordable and simple. While possibly not the most popular airline among the pilot fraternity, they have provided a huge number of jobs, they have kick-started quite a number of local economies and have provided air travel to hundreds of thousands of people who couldn't have dreamt of affording air travel 15-20 years ago. "
But I would add cheap and nasty for the pax too. I think the service levels on your average cattle wagon are probably higher. But you get what you pays for I suppose.
Given a choice between joining SouthWest and Ryanair I think know who would have the longer queue. However SouthWest require closer to 2000 hours than 200. So obviously some will take up the muffin diet just to get started.
"How's about affordable and simple. While possibly not the most popular airline among the pilot fraternity, they have provided a huge number of jobs, they have kick-started quite a number of local economies and have provided air travel to hundreds of thousands of people who couldn't have dreamt of affording air travel 15-20 years ago. "
But I would add cheap and nasty for the pax too. I think the service levels on your average cattle wagon are probably higher. But you get what you pays for I suppose.
Given a choice between joining SouthWest and Ryanair I think know who would have the longer queue. However SouthWest require closer to 2000 hours than 200. So obviously some will take up the muffin diet just to get started.
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As an example of SLF, I've flown with both Ryanair and SouthWest.
There is simply no contest ... SouthWest treat you like a human being .. Ryanair do not. I no longer fly Ryanair unless I can avoid it. Sadly some European SLF who have only flown lo-co with Ryanair think that they are the norm.
There is simply no contest ... SouthWest treat you like a human being .. Ryanair do not. I no longer fly Ryanair unless I can avoid it. Sadly some European SLF who have only flown lo-co with Ryanair think that they are the norm.
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Having flown on both airlines on a multitude of times. I have to agree, Southwest is a class act why Ryannair is cheap and nasty.
Saying that, I will fly on Ryanair again as I know I will normaly find the cheapest price with them, and I am prepared to accept what I pay for.
Southwest on the other hand do not necessarily have the cheapest fairs anymore.
You get what you pay for.
Saying that, I will fly on Ryanair again as I know I will normaly find the cheapest price with them, and I am prepared to accept what I pay for.
Southwest on the other hand do not necessarily have the cheapest fairs anymore.
You get what you pay for.
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Southwest on the other hand do not necessarily have the cheapest fairs anymore.
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Lets not actually forget Flybe were the first to introduce paying to load your bags.
Is there a reason that everything is always Ryanairs fault, or is it just sport something you dont agree with therefore oh what the hell lets blame Ryanair.
In some measure or another, hidden or not everything Ryanair does most others do.
Yeah and they are mostly American which is mostly English Speaking or Spanish/hispanic
Ryanair covers all of europe, and under EU law employs from all of europe, hence not everyones first language is English.
Same as in all others threads, you cant do a comparison unless it is like for like. These maybe both Lo-Co's but certainly nothing like each other
Is there a reason that everything is always Ryanairs fault, or is it just sport something you dont agree with therefore oh what the hell lets blame Ryanair.
In some measure or another, hidden or not everything Ryanair does most others do.
Originally Posted by atyourcervix73
2. Most of the Cabin crew speak english as a FIRST language unlike Pikey.
Ryanair covers all of europe, and under EU law employs from all of europe, hence not everyones first language is English.
Same as in all others threads, you cant do a comparison unless it is like for like. These maybe both Lo-Co's but certainly nothing like each other
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Originally Posted by buttline
one of my friends has just been offered a place as a cadet with Ryanair. The deal is:-
he has to pay for his own 737 rating (20k plus)
he receives no salary or payments at all during training
he has to pay all his own accommodation / transport / meal costs during simulator AND line training (40+) sectors for which they can send you anywhere in Europe
Once his base check is complete his salary is £680 a month
He gets NO SECTOR pay at all for 6 months after base saftey pilot release
Half sector pay for the following 6 months
he has to pay for his own 737 rating (20k plus)
he receives no salary or payments at all during training
he has to pay all his own accommodation / transport / meal costs during simulator AND line training (40+) sectors for which they can send you anywhere in Europe
Once his base check is complete his salary is £680 a month
He gets NO SECTOR pay at all for 6 months after base saftey pilot release
Half sector pay for the following 6 months
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Anotherthing,
As SLF I would dearly love Southwest to come over to Europe. Maybe they will. JetBlue would also be very welcome. Might just make Ryanair get to grips with passenger satisfaction and customer service.
As SLF I would dearly love Southwest to come over to Europe. Maybe they will. JetBlue would also be very welcome. Might just make Ryanair get to grips with passenger satisfaction and customer service.
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Good grief. The slightest comment and the FR bashers are out in force again with exaggeration to the fore. The original comments hardly constitute a 'slamming' and as several posters have commented Ryanair are successful in their own marketplace.
In my experience 'cheap' as regards fares they are, 'nasty' they are not. Obviousy some people have had bad experiences (mostly because they do not read or even want to understand the rules) but personally I have had more bad experiences and inept customer service from some of the 'full fare' airlines like BA & BMI than I have had with Ryanair.
As for the guys who made comments about FR pilots not speaking English - get a grip - I take it you guys will never fly with any 'foreign' airline!
In my experience 'cheap' as regards fares they are, 'nasty' they are not. Obviousy some people have had bad experiences (mostly because they do not read or even want to understand the rules) but personally I have had more bad experiences and inept customer service from some of the 'full fare' airlines like BA & BMI than I have had with Ryanair.
As for the guys who made comments about FR pilots not speaking English - get a grip - I take it you guys will never fly with any 'foreign' airline!
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10secondsurvey -
you miss my point - Does Ms. Barrettt understand the costs of things over here??
I would love to see competition in the form of an airline like southwest; I just think that with the higher fuel costs etc, MoL is doing a very good job, business wise.
The way he treats his staff is another issue; though despite all the threads warning about how pilots are treated, they still flock to ryr, then complain.
worldwidewolly -
2 things... if the customers are treated so badly, why are the numbers on the increase, yet again. If you pay very low prices, something has to give; it's not as if RYR are flying as tired fleet of A/C and saving money that way.
Population - I am more than aware of how many people there are in europe and in the US. However, it's a hell of a lot easier for 1 american company to provide a service to all of it's own population than it is for one company (RYR) to try to break into foreign european countries. Despite all the talk about a united European Union, our friends on the continent do not bend over and take things so easily as our governement seems to. Because of this indigenous population, Southwests immediate customer base is far larger.
you miss my point - Does Ms. Barrettt understand the costs of things over here??
I would love to see competition in the form of an airline like southwest; I just think that with the higher fuel costs etc, MoL is doing a very good job, business wise.
The way he treats his staff is another issue; though despite all the threads warning about how pilots are treated, they still flock to ryr, then complain.
worldwidewolly -
2 things... if the customers are treated so badly, why are the numbers on the increase, yet again. If you pay very low prices, something has to give; it's not as if RYR are flying as tired fleet of A/C and saving money that way.
Population - I am more than aware of how many people there are in europe and in the US. However, it's a hell of a lot easier for 1 american company to provide a service to all of it's own population than it is for one company (RYR) to try to break into foreign european countries. Despite all the talk about a united European Union, our friends on the continent do not bend over and take things so easily as our governement seems to. Because of this indigenous population, Southwests immediate customer base is far larger.
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I'm no fan of Ryanair, and I have sympathy for pilots being taken on under the condiditons described by buttline, but the harsh reality is that they get away with it because they can. If they couldn't recruit any pilots, they would have to change their conditions. The reality is that new ATPL holders will put up with anything to get at the pointy end of a jet, and if that means accepting grotty conditions in the hope that the likes of BA will show an interest later, so be it. While that continues the likes of Ryanair will take advantage.
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The bottom line is that the majority of pax are only looking for the cheapest flight that goes to roughly where they want to go - or at least what they believe to be the cheapest one through the magic of advertising. They really don't care how they are treated etc. as long as they get to where they want - and treat the flight as though it were just a bus or train journey - and view the pilots as just better trained bus/train drivers!
Very few people will pay extra to fly with an airline because of moral objections to how the cheaper airlines treat their pax/staff. I am proud to be one of those merry few - and have/do/will pay extra - but I bet RyanAir could not care less.
Until pax start voting with their feet and stop using them, RyanAir will continue to go from strength to strength. For things to change, it will require that a cheaper competitor emerges (which is unlikely) or there is an accident that can be laid at the feet of the management. So in a perverse way, I have to hope that they do continue to be successful - because the majority of the pax will not change their views or perceptions.
Very few people will pay extra to fly with an airline because of moral objections to how the cheaper airlines treat their pax/staff. I am proud to be one of those merry few - and have/do/will pay extra - but I bet RyanAir could not care less.
Until pax start voting with their feet and stop using them, RyanAir will continue to go from strength to strength. For things to change, it will require that a cheaper competitor emerges (which is unlikely) or there is an accident that can be laid at the feet of the management. So in a perverse way, I have to hope that they do continue to be successful - because the majority of the pax will not change their views or perceptions.
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Originally Posted by SLFStuckInTheBack
They really don't care how they are treated etc. as long as they get to where they want - and treat the flight as though it were just a bus or train journey - and view the pilots as just better trained bus/train drivers!
ns.
ns.
Exactly - it is just a bus ride - no magic, or glamour, just get on, sit for a while and get off.
Maybe we should tip the driver...
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Zwitter,
If we did then perhaps the cadets would be able to afford to eat and sleep in proper beds?
The downside though is that I am sure some evil management type would then assume that the average tip for flight and cabin crew would be x euros and then reduce the pay by that amount (or more?). I hope I have not given any evil management types any ideas!
If we did then perhaps the cadets would be able to afford to eat and sleep in proper beds?
The downside though is that I am sure some evil management type would then assume that the average tip for flight and cabin crew would be x euros and then reduce the pay by that amount (or more?). I hope I have not given any evil management types any ideas!
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That was a loco which offered a very pleasant travelling experience indeed!
As SLF I would dearly love Southwest to come over to Europe. Maybe they will. JetBlue would also be very welcome. Might just make Ryanair get to grips with passenger satisfaction and customer service.
They might, but they'd probably be driven back. The marketplace here is very different from the USA, plus it would be more likely to drive Ryanair into a price war - and look how that has ended up for other airlines who have tried to intrude on Ryanair's territory. Not very well - Ryanair simply undercut them until they bled so much they had to pull out.
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Judging by what I have read here, many of you jumping to condemn Ryanair did not see the interview. You are just diving in, at the first opportunity to slam the airline for whatever reasons you may have. The thread title is misleading.
I DID see the interview. The lady did NOT slam Ryanair, but she did point out the difference in culture between Ryanair & Southwest, and in fact, she and the programme makers were complimentary of MO'L's skill to turn a huge lossmaker into such a profitable organisation. He was also complimented for his "cojones" to place one of the biggest aircraft orders ever, when the airline business was heading for collapse after 9/11. Unfortunately no-one can deny his ability to make a buck.
I have no allegiance to Ryanair, but you get what you pay for, and probably expect no more or no less. Their recruitment and HR policies might leave a lot to be desired, but most of their crew that I know, are a happy bunch and have no plans to leave, contrary to what some contributors would have us believe.
I do not like the experience of travelling (occasionally) on their aircraft, but they give a service, and I am prepared to accept it whenever I use them. At times they are no worse than some of the legacy carriers. If they gave a seat allocation, it could take away much of the hassle.
I take particular exception to the post from atyourcervix73. The word "Pikey" is a most derogatory term, which has an Irish background, and I consider it to be racist. From your ratings, you do not work for Ryanair, and while you state your "opinion" to be "humble", I think it is either a direct result of your education, or some sort of superiority complex. I would appreciate if you would withdraw the remark.
Being Irish, like the programme makers, I am happy to see two very successful Irishmen (like them or not) at the helm of two of the biggest european airlines.
I DID see the interview. The lady did NOT slam Ryanair, but she did point out the difference in culture between Ryanair & Southwest, and in fact, she and the programme makers were complimentary of MO'L's skill to turn a huge lossmaker into such a profitable organisation. He was also complimented for his "cojones" to place one of the biggest aircraft orders ever, when the airline business was heading for collapse after 9/11. Unfortunately no-one can deny his ability to make a buck.
I have no allegiance to Ryanair, but you get what you pay for, and probably expect no more or no less. Their recruitment and HR policies might leave a lot to be desired, but most of their crew that I know, are a happy bunch and have no plans to leave, contrary to what some contributors would have us believe.
I do not like the experience of travelling (occasionally) on their aircraft, but they give a service, and I am prepared to accept it whenever I use them. At times they are no worse than some of the legacy carriers. If they gave a seat allocation, it could take away much of the hassle.
I take particular exception to the post from atyourcervix73. The word "Pikey" is a most derogatory term, which has an Irish background, and I consider it to be racist. From your ratings, you do not work for Ryanair, and while you state your "opinion" to be "humble", I think it is either a direct result of your education, or some sort of superiority complex. I would appreciate if you would withdraw the remark.
Being Irish, like the programme makers, I am happy to see two very successful Irishmen (like them or not) at the helm of two of the biggest european airlines.
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[QUOTE=SFI145]
Apologies for the derail, but I keep reading this, and I can't believe it. How can people afford to do this?
Originally Posted by buttline
one of my friends has just been offered a place as a cadet with Ryanair. The deal is:-
he has to pay for his own 737 rating (20k plus)
he receives no salary or payments at all during training
he has to pay all his own accommodation / transport / meal costs during simulator AND line training (40+) sectors for which they can send you anywhere in Europe
Once his base check is complete his salary is £680 a month
He gets NO SECTOR pay at all for 6 months after base saftey pilot release
Half sector pay for the following 6 months
I think it is a sobering thought for all of us in the airline industry (and especially those considering mortgaging houses to pay for their training) that what we are talking about here are the lucky few who actually get a job at all at the end of their training.
he has to pay for his own 737 rating (20k plus)
he receives no salary or payments at all during training
he has to pay all his own accommodation / transport / meal costs during simulator AND line training (40+) sectors for which they can send you anywhere in Europe
Once his base check is complete his salary is £680 a month
He gets NO SECTOR pay at all for 6 months after base saftey pilot release
Half sector pay for the following 6 months
I think it is a sobering thought for all of us in the airline industry (and especially those considering mortgaging houses to pay for their training) that what we are talking about here are the lucky few who actually get a job at all at the end of their training.