HEATHROW
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Is the whole place coloured in retro Aeroflot Blue
Remember the phrase "Lies , Damned lies & Statistics" - An MP featured on BBC R4, this afternoon had apparently lost some of her luggage at T5. I hope the Ads encourage people to use the place but has the damage been done - In two years the delays will be history.(I hope).
Remember the phrase "Lies , Damned lies & Statistics" - An MP featured on BBC R4, this afternoon had apparently lost some of her luggage at T5. I hope the Ads encourage people to use the place but has the damage been done - In two years the delays will be history.(I hope).
Join Date: Apr 1999
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'9 pax on every BA jumbo lose their bags'. and 'BA customers were 80% more likely to lose their luggage than average in the first half of 2008'
Originally Posted by WHBM
Could we also know the percentage of connecting bags which are being mishandled ?
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I had the pleasure of T5 back in May, not in the conventional sence however. I had been for a weekend visit to Chicago from Heathrow T4 and only realised upon checking in that our return flight was landing in Gatwick while our car was stuck at Heathrow T4/5 Parking... Not good since I was supposed to be at work within 4 hours of landing!
So on landing in Gatwick we got the national express coach to Heathrow T5. The building itself was very nice and open, not like the busy T3 or Gatwick South, but I guess on hindsight this is because no one wants to fly from it!
Back to my point, after leaving the coach all we knew is that we had to get to stop 50something for our airport parking shuttle and stepping into T5 there was NO airport staff to ask for directions, NO maps and NO signage to point us in the correct direction. I tried asking the person on the Costa coffee counter but they were Polish and didn't understand much English other than Grande Latte (Notice the irony?). In the end I was helped by a nice BA check in counter lady after wasting 10 minutes looking for BAA employees.
In short; nice building, useless staff if you can even find them.
So on landing in Gatwick we got the national express coach to Heathrow T5. The building itself was very nice and open, not like the busy T3 or Gatwick South, but I guess on hindsight this is because no one wants to fly from it!
Back to my point, after leaving the coach all we knew is that we had to get to stop 50something for our airport parking shuttle and stepping into T5 there was NO airport staff to ask for directions, NO maps and NO signage to point us in the correct direction. I tried asking the person on the Costa coffee counter but they were Polish and didn't understand much English other than Grande Latte (Notice the irony?). In the end I was helped by a nice BA check in counter lady after wasting 10 minutes looking for BAA employees.
In short; nice building, useless staff if you can even find them.
To call the staff useless is a bit below the belt, especially as one of those staff helped you out.
Paxing All Over The World
I wrote:
Re-Heat observed:
Well ...!! I am fairly sure that you know I was saving bandwidth. If not, here is the full answer:
Architects like to make buildings which win them awards (fair enough, don't we all) but the buildings are not always what is wanted. Here is part of my sister's view from last week: Even if my back pack had not been so heavy I would still have liked more chairs available inside T5 - and having shops on two floors is a pain as well. As to getting to the gates, that was another story. 'A' is fine - it is right there. I hate to think where 'C' is as the board indicated it took longer to get there than gate 'B'. I needed B33 which involved a walk, a lift, walk, a 'tube' train, escalators, more escalators and then walking. By which time I was completely disorientated as there were no windows during most of the transfer!
That sounds as good as the brand new swimming pool in my town. The architect put in 3m high windows so that everybody walking by on the street could look in to 'see how good it was and inspire them to join'. Before it opens on Saturday, they have had to put frosting and blinds on the windows as they discovered that people in their swimming gear do not like total strangers gawping in the windows at them and their children. Another triumph.
Accountants? Well, as I understand it they persuaded the CAA to allow inbound and outbound pax to mix freely - just so that they could have one set of shops instead of two and that would make the shop keepers happier. This, despite that every airport I know has been installing barriers to separate in/out pax. (Correct me if I am wrong on this).
The Flight Information display boards follow most of the other new air terminals in the world, which means they are very poor. The old style 'ticker-board' has not been replaced with screens of the same size - but small flat screens (set up vertically) and these have the great advantage of being cheap for the airport and the great disadvantage of being too small to read unless you are standing within 2m of them. Rather than finding an out of the way place to watch the board - you have to keep walking up to it to read the information. A big board with characters that can be seen at 100m works better but is more expensive.
Etcetera.
I found it was just another modern terminal - designed by architects and accountants.
Close shave that they got the right people in to deisgn [sic] and finance a building then, isn't it?!
Architects like to make buildings which win them awards (fair enough, don't we all) but the buildings are not always what is wanted. Here is part of my sister's view from last week: Even if my back pack had not been so heavy I would still have liked more chairs available inside T5 - and having shops on two floors is a pain as well. As to getting to the gates, that was another story. 'A' is fine - it is right there. I hate to think where 'C' is as the board indicated it took longer to get there than gate 'B'. I needed B33 which involved a walk, a lift, walk, a 'tube' train, escalators, more escalators and then walking. By which time I was completely disorientated as there were no windows during most of the transfer!
That sounds as good as the brand new swimming pool in my town. The architect put in 3m high windows so that everybody walking by on the street could look in to 'see how good it was and inspire them to join'. Before it opens on Saturday, they have had to put frosting and blinds on the windows as they discovered that people in their swimming gear do not like total strangers gawping in the windows at them and their children. Another triumph.
Accountants? Well, as I understand it they persuaded the CAA to allow inbound and outbound pax to mix freely - just so that they could have one set of shops instead of two and that would make the shop keepers happier. This, despite that every airport I know has been installing barriers to separate in/out pax. (Correct me if I am wrong on this).
The Flight Information display boards follow most of the other new air terminals in the world, which means they are very poor. The old style 'ticker-board' has not been replaced with screens of the same size - but small flat screens (set up vertically) and these have the great advantage of being cheap for the airport and the great disadvantage of being too small to read unless you are standing within 2m of them. Rather than finding an out of the way place to watch the board - you have to keep walking up to it to read the information. A big board with characters that can be seen at 100m works better but is more expensive.
Etcetera.
the lunatic fringe
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Sorry but I am still wondering how Singapore, KL and Hong Kong manage to move entire airport operations overnight and BAA c0cked up moving one terminal...
the lunatic fringe
Join Date: May 2001
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I needed B33 which involved a walk, a lift, walk, a 'tube' train, escalators, more escalators and then walking.
The lift is down. The walk is 20 feet to the tube. You stand on the escalator, or take a lift if you want. Then you .. yes walk to the gate...
How can you possibly complain about that. It is a remote terminal for goodness sakes.
You and your sister seem to want to complain for complaining sakes.
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Correct,- Hong Kong and Kuala Lumpurs openings were disastrous - as was Bangkok so difficult opening days are not new. Hong Kongs press reaction was also similar to T5s,- ie hysteria. Hong Kongs baggage system collapsed almost from the beginning, partly because the system did not recognise the previous days mishandled bags from Kai Tak when they were inserted for their new flights.The computerised system also sent bags en masse to the wrong spurs and the insisted that they were where they should be - and they weren't. Most flights left very late and with little or no baggage. To compound this the entire flight information system collapsed so there were no flights , stand numbers or anything on any screen either in the airline offices or on the concourses, so nobody knew where anything was and when.
There was massive and heroic improvisation by the handling agents and despite the rolling knock-on effects of stands being fully occupied while outgoing flights tried to find their passengers and baggage there were few cancellations.
Cargo was an even bigger disaster and promptly moved back to Kai Tak for six months with everything being trucked to and from the old cargo buildings, a good hours drive away in the meantime.
The reality is that T5 is now working very well and the signs are that it will accomodate the rest of BA's transfered services in September and October with little pain.
The problem of misconnecting transfer bags at LHR is not a purely BA one and much of it is down to;
a) The scattered layout of the airport with multiple terminals and longish distances between them. Multiple terminals mean multiple sorting, each one of which adds to the time taken from A to B, and the complex mechanics and double and triple handling involved in covering the distances.
b) The fact that until T5 all the terminals were built before the need for total reconciliation of bags with passengers was introduced days after T4 opened in April 1986. As result separate transfer systems and a lot of new IT technology had to be tacked onto the existing arriving and departing ones.
c) The airport congestion caused by very high runway utilisation meaning frequent and sometimes lengthy holding which= delayed arrivals eating into minimum connecting times. BA as the largest home based carrier suffers most from this as its aircraft may transit LHR up to 3 times a day whereas foreign carriers will usually only do one LHR trip a day. BMis baggage performance is said to to similar to BAs. Virgins is probably better as they have no shorthaul network so their aircraft will not depart more than once a day and will have longer base turnarounds.
So.. let's get away from the BA and T5 knocking as a ritual sport and look objectively at the realities. With a large portion of LHR transfers now under one roof in T5 , everyones transfer baggage performance should get substantially better between now and BA's final T5 moves in October.
There was massive and heroic improvisation by the handling agents and despite the rolling knock-on effects of stands being fully occupied while outgoing flights tried to find their passengers and baggage there were few cancellations.
Cargo was an even bigger disaster and promptly moved back to Kai Tak for six months with everything being trucked to and from the old cargo buildings, a good hours drive away in the meantime.
The reality is that T5 is now working very well and the signs are that it will accomodate the rest of BA's transfered services in September and October with little pain.
The problem of misconnecting transfer bags at LHR is not a purely BA one and much of it is down to;
a) The scattered layout of the airport with multiple terminals and longish distances between them. Multiple terminals mean multiple sorting, each one of which adds to the time taken from A to B, and the complex mechanics and double and triple handling involved in covering the distances.
b) The fact that until T5 all the terminals were built before the need for total reconciliation of bags with passengers was introduced days after T4 opened in April 1986. As result separate transfer systems and a lot of new IT technology had to be tacked onto the existing arriving and departing ones.
c) The airport congestion caused by very high runway utilisation meaning frequent and sometimes lengthy holding which= delayed arrivals eating into minimum connecting times. BA as the largest home based carrier suffers most from this as its aircraft may transit LHR up to 3 times a day whereas foreign carriers will usually only do one LHR trip a day. BMis baggage performance is said to to similar to BAs. Virgins is probably better as they have no shorthaul network so their aircraft will not depart more than once a day and will have longer base turnarounds.
So.. let's get away from the BA and T5 knocking as a ritual sport and look objectively at the realities. With a large portion of LHR transfers now under one roof in T5 , everyones transfer baggage performance should get substantially better between now and BA's final T5 moves in October.
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Went through terminal 5 last month and must say on the whole I was impressed. Before I go any further i'll say I didn't fly to or from the terminal. I had landed into terminal 1 and because I hadn't seen it yet, and the fact that my hotel was the travelodge heathrow terminal 5, I got the heathrow express free to terminal 5. Finding the hoppa bus to the hotel took a few minutes but got there in the end. I did however have to go past every stop and read what buses went from it (no big signs!).
Apart from all that, the bus station was very clean with plenty of fresh air in and around it. I was pleased I hadn't decided to use the dark, dirty hole that is the bus station at terminal 1, while breathing in dangerous carbon monoxide levels. When your inside the terminal and see those high glass lifts and the water fountain outside, you do forget your in an airport terminal which is a good thing. From what I've seen it's a much nicer terminal to fly through than any of the others.
Apart from all that, the bus station was very clean with plenty of fresh air in and around it. I was pleased I hadn't decided to use the dark, dirty hole that is the bus station at terminal 1, while breathing in dangerous carbon monoxide levels. When your inside the terminal and see those high glass lifts and the water fountain outside, you do forget your in an airport terminal which is a good thing. From what I've seen it's a much nicer terminal to fly through than any of the others.
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So if you've got a good tailwind across the Atlantic and turn up half an hour early, does that not count as on time? That's what their wording suggests.
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The point being made is that the wording in the advertisement is poor. I agree. To use the phrase "arriving within 15 minutes of the scheduled time", if taken literally, only counts flights arriving within a 30 minute slot as being "on time" (i.e., those which arrive during the period between 15 minutes early and 15 minutes late). Hence, ironically a flight arriving 30 minutes early does not count as being "on time"! A better phrase for BA to have used would have been something like "arriving no later than 15 minutes after the scheduled time". Don't airlines pay expensive agencies to get things like this right?
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In the last year, I have travelled with groups of 10 people at a time transitting through Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, London Heathrow Terminal 4 & 5, Manchester, Paris Charles de Gaulle and Rome Fiumicino.
On each occasion at least two of the bags did not make it on to the flights. The baggage eventually turned up at least two or three days later except the transit through Terminal 5 when the two suitcases arrived on the next flight the same day and where delivered to the hotel the same evening.
The reason for the bags not making the original flight from Terminal 5? The loaders at Manchester Airport had not loaded them on to the shuttle to Heathrow!
On each occasion at least two of the bags did not make it on to the flights. The baggage eventually turned up at least two or three days later except the transit through Terminal 5 when the two suitcases arrived on the next flight the same day and where delivered to the hotel the same evening.
The reason for the bags not making the original flight from Terminal 5? The loaders at Manchester Airport had not loaded them on to the shuttle to Heathrow!
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World Class?
Lets just face it ,Heathrow isnt a world class Airport anymore .Especially when compared to Airports like Singapore or Hong Kong.
The BAA and BAs reputations are on the line right now for different reasons(BAA possible break up of monopoly and BA dwindling popularity after p---ing off so many punters in the last year.
Compare for example SIN to LHR as a transit passenger.
SIN --
Tranquil atmosphere for relaxing.
500 free internet terminals
Movie Theatre
Swimming pool on roof deck
Ease of access between terminals
Transit hotel within terminal for rooms if needed
Free massages
Toilets manned 24hrs immaculately clean with areas to put bags
City trip-free for stays of over 5hrs
Water features-the list goes on
LHR--
Please feel free to comment but maybe a trip to Hounslow town centre doesnt have the same appeal.
In short , irrespective of the number of passengers using the airport there is no need not to be able to provide comfortable surroundings.
I dropped off friends to Luton recently-at least they dont pretend to be anything other than a low cost airport.
Simple ,clean with good amenities.What is expected of such an airport.
Of Heathrow i expect more, the UKs Gateway
The BAA and BAs reputations are on the line right now for different reasons(BAA possible break up of monopoly and BA dwindling popularity after p---ing off so many punters in the last year.
Compare for example SIN to LHR as a transit passenger.
SIN --
Tranquil atmosphere for relaxing.
500 free internet terminals
Movie Theatre
Swimming pool on roof deck
Ease of access between terminals
Transit hotel within terminal for rooms if needed
Free massages
Toilets manned 24hrs immaculately clean with areas to put bags
City trip-free for stays of over 5hrs
Water features-the list goes on
LHR--
Please feel free to comment but maybe a trip to Hounslow town centre doesnt have the same appeal.
In short , irrespective of the number of passengers using the airport there is no need not to be able to provide comfortable surroundings.
I dropped off friends to Luton recently-at least they dont pretend to be anything other than a low cost airport.
Simple ,clean with good amenities.What is expected of such an airport.
Of Heathrow i expect more, the UKs Gateway
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Now I have to take issue with the 'water features' you can find them in most terminals at LHR particularly during heavy rainfall. After 37 years at LHR I do not disagree with the last thread I have always advocated that LHR is a s------e. The addition of a further runway has the potential for causing longer delays and greater chaos.
I will defend the BAA / BA in regard that the UK lacks any sort of government policy and seems incapable of any decisions in transport. Lack of direction has much to do with the shambles LHR is in, likewise LGW which is also a dump, STN I cannoyt comment on. It is a pointless exercise trying to compare the UK airports to others in many quarters of the World. The Uk is a spent force with the finances and ideas gradually being stripped out and ownership passed to overseas companies who will observe us sink futher into the morass.
Our main appeal is to scroungers from the four couners of the World whom we provide with cash and accomodation, ex terrorists and criminals particularly welcome. This group are not bothered about the state of LHR.
I will defend the BAA / BA in regard that the UK lacks any sort of government policy and seems incapable of any decisions in transport. Lack of direction has much to do with the shambles LHR is in, likewise LGW which is also a dump, STN I cannoyt comment on. It is a pointless exercise trying to compare the UK airports to others in many quarters of the World. The Uk is a spent force with the finances and ideas gradually being stripped out and ownership passed to overseas companies who will observe us sink futher into the morass.
Our main appeal is to scroungers from the four couners of the World whom we provide with cash and accomodation, ex terrorists and criminals particularly welcome. This group are not bothered about the state of LHR.
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T5 - It ain't bad at all!
Have had the benefit of T5 twice now - once on April 1st when I landed back from HKG to find a building site still in progress. I'll admit nowhere looks good at 5.30am after a 12hr flight, but it was appalling for a brand new building to have builders saw-dust/open roof tiles/exposing air ducts/wires and unfinished railings etc on the way from the B gates to the main terminal, I was not impressed.
Second visit through last month (benefit of departure and arrivals through T5) was one of the most calm and painless journeys through an airport building. Nowhere was packed (this was 8am on departure and 4.30pm on arrival) the bags arrived as we did to the luggage belt, and everywhere was clean/finished/and the building had an air of calmness about it. If London East (the new T1 & T2 replacement) is anywhere near as good, LHR will at least regain a lot of lost ground on some of it's European neighbours. (and I don't include CDG in that - it is and always will be awful!)
Second visit through last month (benefit of departure and arrivals through T5) was one of the most calm and painless journeys through an airport building. Nowhere was packed (this was 8am on departure and 4.30pm on arrival) the bags arrived as we did to the luggage belt, and everywhere was clean/finished/and the building had an air of calmness about it. If London East (the new T1 & T2 replacement) is anywhere near as good, LHR will at least regain a lot of lost ground on some of it's European neighbours. (and I don't include CDG in that - it is and always will be awful!)