HEATHROW
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It's one of these bizarre things which says a lot about the British. Those who fly a lot, and who are familiar with various hubs, rate LHR highly. ( I remember T5 winning awards.) Those who rarely fly seem to only remember the bad publicity from several years ago and avoid it on the principle that things are always better elsewhere. Hence KLM have feeder flights from almost every UK airport, and Air Lingus from many.
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It's one of these bizarre things which says a lot about the British. Those who fly a lot, and who are familiar with various hubs, rate LHR highly. ( I remember T5 winning awards.) Those who rarely fly seem to only remember the bad publicity from several years ago and avoid it on the principle that things are always better elsewhere. Hence KLM have feeder flights from almost every UK airport, and Air Lingus from many.
Reference the ME3 Turkish and the EU golden triangle alliance hubs (For clarity that is defined as FRA/AMS/CDG) all offering global one stop long haul access from the regions at frequencies way above the historical levels of the late twentieth century.
Whilst the flexible fares (so called LCC or ULCC what ever that means) carriers are providing levels of EU and Mediterranean flight opportunities never ever offered by the legacies equally from the regions.
Though these have almost killed off the traditional independent charter companies as the traditional package tour goes the way of the dodo.
Many many more people of differing economic classes fly today from/to the UK multiple times a year and simply have no need to transit Heathrow, after all most of these will be inter Europe both leisure or small business trips where unless you are chasing mileage or for some other commercial reason LBA- LHR- DUS for instance is simple barmy.
As for both KLM and Aer Lingus they have been operating into the UK regions for just about as long as commercial passenger flying has existed !
And both have very substantial O & D traffic levels in addition to the feed.
Indeed the KLM east coast routes from Norwich/Humberside/Tees-side/Newcastle and Aberdeen can be some of the most expensive routes for point to point as much is petrochemical related traffic.
As for Aer Lingus they have offered US transits through Dublin since the fifties yet most of the traffic remains point to point commuters for most of the day.
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I think a lot avoid LHR in favour of AMS simply because it's cheaper to fly via AMS
That said Easyjet Jet2 and even Flybe can be rather helpful in tax avoidance opportunities.
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rutankrd
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm more of a transport geek than a frequent flyer, with a particular interest in EDI. I had assumed that O&D passengers to AMS or Dublin used the LCCs (EJ or Ry) and only the feeder PAX used KLM or Aer Lingus. Obviously the airports you mention don't have the same LCC opportunities, so if the company is paying....., but if you are, you may choose to trek to an airport which offers the choice.
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rutankrd, that is another story. I'm talking through ticketing with KLM and partners. Depending on destination, it's cheaper to fly KLM via AMS than with BAW and partners through LHR.
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rutankrd, that is another story. I'm talking through ticketing with KLM and partners. Depending on destination, it's cheaper to fly KLM via AMS than with BAW and partners through LHR.
Its funny and potentially corrupt industry when analysed in detail.
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It's one of these bizarre things which says a lot about the British. Those who fly a lot, and who are familiar with various hubs, rate LHR highly. ( I remember T5 winning awards.) Those who rarely fly seem to only remember the bad publicity from several years ago and avoid it on the principle that things are always better elsewhere. Hence KLM have feeder flights from almost every UK airport, and Air Lingus from many.
So in short... the only thing I have against LHR is that it doesn't have a third runway...
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I note someone said how much do you think it would take to move the Queen Mother Reservoir,? not a lot to drain it and you then end up with a large flat area perfect for building a runway and the associated infrastructure in relative peace. Water can easily be piped in from elsewhere
So I do believe that Jock Lowes plan an ex BA chief pilot to be sensible, why spend more when you dont have to, LGW plus a Northern runway could be built for the price of R3
Sorry to sound so negative but these are the realities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walnut
as for the idea that the M25 could be diverted around the airport or put on a bridge is fanciful, are planes going to fly under this bridge?
I think you'll find that the bridge is intended to take the runway over the M25, not vice versa
Originally Posted by Walnut
as for the idea that the M25 could be diverted around the airport or put on a bridge is fanciful, are planes going to fly under this bridge?
I think you'll find that the bridge is intended to take the runway over the M25, not vice versa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
Rated best in Western Europe by who?
Airport Council International.
Best-Airport-by-Size-and-Region/Europe
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
Rated best in Western Europe by who?
Airport Council International.
Best-Airport-by-Size-and-Region/Europe
Quote:
It's one of these bizarre things which says a lot about the British. Those who fly a lot, and who are familiar with various hubs, rate LHR highly. ( I remember T5 winning awards.) Those who rarely fly seem to only remember the bad publicity from several years ago and avoid it on the principle that things are always better elsewhere. Hence KLM have feeder flights from almost every UK airport, and Air Lingus from many.
It's not my most convenient airport to get to, but the only inherent thing I have against LHR is the delays. I don't enjoy sitting in the terminal watching the arriving flight do 20 circles over Middx on flightradar while wondering if I'm still going to make my connection at wherever. In particular, the terminal experience is much better than STN (my nearest airport).
So in short... the only thing I have against LHR is that it doesn't have a third runway...
It's one of these bizarre things which says a lot about the British. Those who fly a lot, and who are familiar with various hubs, rate LHR highly. ( I remember T5 winning awards.) Those who rarely fly seem to only remember the bad publicity from several years ago and avoid it on the principle that things are always better elsewhere. Hence KLM have feeder flights from almost every UK airport, and Air Lingus from many.
It's not my most convenient airport to get to, but the only inherent thing I have against LHR is the delays. I don't enjoy sitting in the terminal watching the arriving flight do 20 circles over Middx on flightradar while wondering if I'm still going to make my connection at wherever. In particular, the terminal experience is much better than STN (my nearest airport).
So in short... the only thing I have against LHR is that it doesn't have a third runway...
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What tosh from Gatwick this morning that they will build a 2nd runway if LHR gets green light . If Heathrow does ever get built the only thing landing at Gatwick will be tumbleweed.
BA move over
IAG routes move over
EasyJet 40+
Leaves a scattering of charters overnight!
Simon Calder who also commented on this has a answer for everything and a solution to nothing.
Zero mention of how LHR navigates taxpayer costs which are gathering real traction. Not sure how even May will handle that one.
.....And we still await W Walsh and his trap door!
BA move over
IAG routes move over
EasyJet 40+
Leaves a scattering of charters overnight!
Simon Calder who also commented on this has a answer for everything and a solution to nothing.
Zero mention of how LHR navigates taxpayer costs which are gathering real traction. Not sure how even May will handle that one.
.....And we still await W Walsh and his trap door!
Navpi
Interesting theories but any new runway at Heathrow (or little old Gatwick) is going to take years to bring into use so:-
1. Will Easyjet (or RYR even) still be around by then?
2. Even BAW may not be as we know it , maybe IAG will be a feeder for QATAR AW by then
3. Brexit effect
4. Trump may have killed us by then!
Suggest we wait and speculate more accurately in 5 years time when the cement is ordered and the "anti-brigade" have been placated.
The world and aviation change too quickly for accurate predictions.
1. Will Easyjet (or RYR even) still be around by then?
2. Even BAW may not be as we know it , maybe IAG will be a feeder for QATAR AW by then
3. Brexit effect
4. Trump may have killed us by then!
Suggest we wait and speculate more accurately in 5 years time when the cement is ordered and the "anti-brigade" have been placated.
The world and aviation change too quickly for accurate predictions.
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Fleet planning runs up to 7 years ahead, BA will have (in my view) a plan to move the totality of Gatwick long haul and much of short haul to shore up market share at LHR.
They were killed at LGW by downsizing and allowing easyJet a foothold. Given LHR is the only game in town for real money, they dare not allow that market share to fall too far. If Runway 3 is built, easyJet (UK) will come calling, indeed plans are affoot already at T4.
They were killed at LGW by downsizing and allowing easyJet a foothold. Given LHR is the only game in town for real money, they dare not allow that market share to fall too far. If Runway 3 is built, easyJet (UK) will come calling, indeed plans are affoot already at T4.
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London MPs quiz airport chiefs amid split over Heathrow third runway | London Evening Standard
Whilst supportive of Heathrow it seems bizarre that ALL London labour MPs support rw3. They should be voting on its merit and not base their voting intentions on an anti Corbyn stance which seems to be the intention, that is simply ridiculous logic.
Meanwhile it seems the SNP will now support LHR as well again based on dubious rationale, although there stance is more to do with the Barnett Formula.
For every £10bn spent in London those plucky Scots negotiated a juicy 10% spend up North, thats Holyrod not Manchester Leeds Liverpool or Sheffield.
" everyones a winner babe and thats ok"
If they simply vote for the project with the highest spend ie the mega spend on Heathrow they come up trumps
Right result for RW3 of course but how we get there is going to open up some massive divisons and questions is it not?
I can't help thinking that basing decisons on political rather than a solid understanding of the facts might be flawed further up the taxiway!
Whilst supportive of Heathrow it seems bizarre that ALL London labour MPs support rw3. They should be voting on its merit and not base their voting intentions on an anti Corbyn stance which seems to be the intention, that is simply ridiculous logic.
Meanwhile it seems the SNP will now support LHR as well again based on dubious rationale, although there stance is more to do with the Barnett Formula.
For every £10bn spent in London those plucky Scots negotiated a juicy 10% spend up North, thats Holyrod not Manchester Leeds Liverpool or Sheffield.
" everyones a winner babe and thats ok"
If they simply vote for the project with the highest spend ie the mega spend on Heathrow they come up trumps
Right result for RW3 of course but how we get there is going to open up some massive divisons and questions is it not?
I can't help thinking that basing decisons on political rather than a solid understanding of the facts might be flawed further up the taxiway!
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Well, Navpi, the way I see it is a bit different.
For facts, or rather for a relatively comprehensive analysis, the Airports Commission did the job, not perfectly, but to a reasonable level given the amount of uncertainty and change which is out there in the world. Also, Davies and his Commissioners reached a judgement on a set of recommendations. Now eighteen months later (much to the disgust of several on this forum) and with a lot more behind the scenes activity the subject has been moved along to political decision time.
What is the nature of the decision? It is that the Government will support a set of actions
A B and C intended to lead to outcome X. This is bound to be subject to a debate and motion in the House, probably it will be crawled over by the Treasury or Transport Select Committee and there will be many JRs just like HS2. That's the system.
By the way, if it is Heathrow NW and £18bn is to be financed ultimately from air travellers via airport charges, that component of the funding has nothing whatever to do with the Barnett Formula. Surely what the Scots have primarily in their minds is that from their point of view strengthening the hub does something for them while expanding P to P capacity in the London system does nothing for them. Of course that is only one of many dimensions in this decision.
For facts, or rather for a relatively comprehensive analysis, the Airports Commission did the job, not perfectly, but to a reasonable level given the amount of uncertainty and change which is out there in the world. Also, Davies and his Commissioners reached a judgement on a set of recommendations. Now eighteen months later (much to the disgust of several on this forum) and with a lot more behind the scenes activity the subject has been moved along to political decision time.
What is the nature of the decision? It is that the Government will support a set of actions
A B and C intended to lead to outcome X. This is bound to be subject to a debate and motion in the House, probably it will be crawled over by the Treasury or Transport Select Committee and there will be many JRs just like HS2. That's the system.
By the way, if it is Heathrow NW and £18bn is to be financed ultimately from air travellers via airport charges, that component of the funding has nothing whatever to do with the Barnett Formula. Surely what the Scots have primarily in their minds is that from their point of view strengthening the hub does something for them while expanding P to P capacity in the London system does nothing for them. Of course that is only one of many dimensions in this decision.
It doesn't make any claim that they are also speaking on behalf of the other 37 Labour MP elected in London constituencies, so how do you know that?
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Apols
Original Evening Standard headline suggested "all of Londons 8 Labour MPs".....
Must confess it did seem a tad light. I should have checked.......
That said I suspect Anti Corbyn. Whilst the man is a buffoon that is not criteria on which to base a national infastructure decison.
Original Evening Standard headline suggested "all of Londons 8 Labour MPs".....
Must confess it did seem a tad light. I should have checked.......
That said I suspect Anti Corbyn. Whilst the man is a buffoon that is not criteria on which to base a national infastructure decison.
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Heathrow faces £16bn "gaping hole" to upgrade road and rail links to the airport if third runway gets approval | City A.M.
Ouch... didn't realise it was this much !!!
Even the lower figure is going to need some nifty footwork by ministers given austerity is the order of the day. Double whammy with NHS on its knees!
Presume the truth is slap bank in the middle. Thus it comes back to an earlier post
MAY "yes no problem there we go its a yes but we ain't paying a penny "
Ouch... didn't realise it was this much !!!
Even the lower figure is going to need some nifty footwork by ministers given austerity is the order of the day. Double whammy with NHS on its knees!
Presume the truth is slap bank in the middle. Thus it comes back to an earlier post
MAY "yes no problem there we go its a yes but we ain't paying a penny "
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Can you link to an article where Theresa May suggests this enormous investment will be private only? It touches on way more public-infrastructure so HMG will be cloesly involved up to a point.