HEATHROW

[Fairdealfrank]

If Heathrow is full then whop the prices up - straight capitalist economics.....

Already been done, but capitalism is long gone, it's been replaced by "corporate cronyism".

All points of arrival within the GLA or TFL area are on the meter.

Do they not cover the same area? Isn't TFL a department of the Mayor's Office/Greater London Assembly, rather than a geographical entity, a new name for what used to be London Regional Transport?

[Trinity 09L]

FDF
Taxi world, I have no up to date info other than website. I believe you are correct re area. The oddity was/is that Red Ken kept the GLA area to London Boroughs, but Staines had a portion of the airport (and still does?), cargo and T5 land, so the boundaries moved.
TFL the collected cabs from the Met Police in the GLA power struggle.
The 3rd runway area may even extend into Berkshire and/or Bucks territory

[DaveReidUK]

The 3rd runway area may even extend into Berkshire and/or Bucks territory

No danger of it extending into Berkshire as that hasn't existed as a LA since 1998.

The NW runway plan extends into the Slough BC area and the Heathrow Hub proposal somewhat further west into the Royal Borough of Windsor & Maidenhead.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo

Or just use Crossrail, which will with any luck, kill Heathrow Express stone dead.

What will actually kill the Heathrow Express is they have a 25-year concession to operate on the national railway. They started in 1998 and thus this expires in 2023. Given all the adverse publicity they have had over time about excessive fare levels this is unlikely to be renewed. So, they have less than 9 years to go.

Crossrail starts in 2018, absorbing the Heathrow Connect service and also operating at an increased frequency, so there will be an overlap. It will doubtless hit HEx in their revenue stream, maybe to such an extent that they negotiate to sell out in advance. Crossrail are playing their cards close to their chest on how they are going to handle the commercial relationship with Heathrow, they have said nothing official yet about Oyster cards being used, but it is certainly their intention, and difficult to see how it could work with anything else. It will be interesting to see how HEx handle the competition

[Skipness One Echo]

Don't HAL own HEX? They do own the spur into the airport. The high fares were justified as a necessary ROI.

[Heathrow Harry]

to use Crossrail to the west you will have to go to Hayes and change

The direct line will link to Langley with trains from Reading

BBC News - Heathrow rail link plan unveiled by Network Rail

[Trinity 09L]

A 5km (3m) rail tunnel under the M4 and M25 would link Terminal 5 with Langley and Iver to the railway to the West.
So a tunnel for the rail link under the M25 before the M25 enters a tunnel to go under the new runway before a steep climb to get over the M4.
A lot of tunnelling jobs available, and a lot of water west of LHR.

[118.70]

Would the tunnel for the rail-link to the West be the same tunnel as the spur to Heathrow for HS2 ? Or is that another one ?

(The published HS2 spur plans had it going over the top of the M4/M25 interchange on the east of the M25 - but that was already a switch-back ride before the suggestion of a third runway would make it impossible.)

[Superpilot]

Saw a front page (OK, second page) double sized piece in yesterday's Evening Standard about an expansion idea that instead of creating a third runway would end up "extending" and "splitting" the Northern strip complete with a 650m buffer zone. Never heard this idea being mentioned before. The "brainchild" of a former Concorde pilot aparrently. What are people's thoughts?

[Heathrow Harry]

"Would the tunnel for the rail-link to the West be the same tunnel as the spur to Heathrow for HS2 ? Or is that another one ?"

Doesn't look like it - the Langley tunnel comes in from the NW whereas I suspect the HS2 spur will have to come in from Old Oak Common almost certainly along the Heathrow Express Link - they're in the process of adding another bridge over the West Coast Main Line on that routing for crossrail services and a bigger station at H&H

[Trinity 09L]

"West Coast Main Line"
Isambard Kingdom Brunel will be disappointed with that description of GWR line.
More tunnel spotters than aviation spotters in the future at LHR the biggest unfinished airport in the UK.

[DaveReidUK]

Saw a front page (OK, second page) double sized piece in yesterday's Evening Standard about an expansion idea that instead of creating a third runway would end up "extending" and "splitting" the Northern strip complete with a 650m buffer zone. Never heard this idea being mentioned before. The "brainchild" of a former Concorde pilot aparrently. What are people's thoughts?

You'll find lots of discussion of this proposal in the various threads dealing with airport strategy (including this one).

Search the Airlines, Airports and Routes forum for "Heathrow Hub", or alternatively for "makeweight".

[Bagso]

Tonights Standard

Heathrow accused of 'faking support' in airport expansion battle - Transport - News - London Evening Standard

Perish the thought......

[Bagso]

Incidentally does anybody know UKIPS stance on slots.

They are very much against expansion but yesterday Howard Davies was asked to review UKIPs slot idea. Problem is I cannot find the idea....

I assume its congestion charging ?

[DaveReidUK]

From UKIP Hillingdon's web site:

"I have already taken up with representatives of Heathrow Airport Ltd that they accommodate too many short haul flights for a supposed hub airport and are taking up valuable long distance slots with smaller aircraft"

"Currently, the runways are operating at 98% capacity but the terminals are operating way below that, in the main caused by airlines with historic slot allocations filling them with empty or almost empty aircraft to deny rivals the ability to land"

"Firstly, look at the ‘Grandfather rights’ granted to airlines on slots at Heathrow and how some of the airlines fill them with empty aircraft just to deny airspace to their rivals. "

"By revisiting these ‘grandfather rights’ and moving the majority of short haul flights from Heathrow to Gatwick, Luton and Stansted it will free up the slots for the heavier traffic that Heathrow needs as a ‘hub’ airport for the transcontinental flights (Which are the main reason given for building the third runway.)"

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

'Runways UK' [Davies Commission] Event at MAN.

The PPRuNe AA&R moderators have recently requested [on 'MANCHESTER - 9'] that very long postings not be submitted on these forums.

I have prepared a very detailed summary of proceedings at yesterday's 'Runways UK' capacity consultation event held at Manchester Airport. LHR and LGW feature very prominently as you would expect. Many high profile figures participated including Sir Howard Davies himself and several prominent aviation industry CEO's.

I am going to respect the moderator's wishes that such a monster six-part posting not be put up here on PPRuNe. However, if you would like to read it, please visit the skyscrapercity website. Search for 'Manchester Metropolitan Area - Greater Manchester Transport Projects - Airport'.

You will find the comprehensive six-parter on the 'Airport' thread pages 343-344. it is NOT a quick read. Enjoy!

[Fairdealfrank]

From UKIP Hillingdon's web site:

"I have already taken up with representatives of Heathrow Airport Ltd that they accommodate too many short haul flights for a supposed hub airport and are taking up valuable long distance slots with smaller aircraft"

Oh dear, this is an elementary mistake, a hub airport needs short haul feeder flights for its long haul routes. Business demands frequency on short haul, hence smaller planes more often.

"Currently, the runways are operating at 98% capacity but the terminals are operating way below that, in the main caused by airlines with historic slot allocations filling them with empty or almost empty aircraft to deny rivals the ability to land"

The new terminals offer plenty of capacity, needs to be matched by rwy capacity, obviously.

"Firstly, look at the ‘Grandfather rights’ granted to airlines on slots at Heathrow and how some of the airlines fill them with empty aircraft just to deny airspace to their rivals. "

"By revisiting these ‘grandfather rights’ and moving the majority of short haul flights from Heathrow to Gatwick, Luton and Stansted it will free up the slots for the heavier traffic that Heathrow needs as a ‘hub’ airport for the transcontinental flights (Which are the main reason given for building the third runway.)"

Not that simple now they have allowed a secondary slot market to develop because of the scarcity of slots. There are also "use it or lose it rules", as well as "slot surrender" requirements when carriers do joint ventures or buy one another.


Interesting, it appears that Hillingdon UKIP are aviation experts, just like the mayor's advisor..........

[c52]

Someone explain to me why, in the national interest, airlines should not be required to fly an A380 to New York every hour instead of 3 757s every hour (or whatever the true figure/type is).

That approach would free a fair number of slots.

[DaveReidUK]

Someone explain to me why, in the national interest, airlines should not be required to fly an A380 to New York every hour instead of 3 757s every hour (or whatever the true figure/type is).

How would that be "in the national interest" ?

[Heathrow Harry]

we wouldn't have to pay to expand LHR for a start Dave...............