LUTON
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Of course I trust you, and will respect you in the morning
Based in Moscow, the weather reporting for Luton is not normally the best way to rock my boat...but the BBC / SKY was telling of the end of the world (in the SE ) as we know it.
I was not aware of the vast aray of snow clearing kit parked at the fire station, just assumed it was the staff car park.!!!!!
However was LTN affected by the snow, my spy in High town tells me there is white stuff covering the ground, (well he is in High Town.)
Bumz
I was not aware of the vast aray of snow clearing kit parked at the fire station, just assumed it was the staff car park.!!!!!
However was LTN affected by the snow, my spy in High town tells me there is white stuff covering the ground, (well he is in High Town.)
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Noticed BY798A from Luton to Acapulco scheduled to depart at 21.30 tonight. Surely that will give a hideous arrival time for all the pax involved after such a lengthy flight.
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Looking at the TAF's they are getting out with only hours to spare.
EGGW 291630Z 300018 16012KT 6000 SCT010 PROB40
TEMPO 0001 -SN BKN008
BECMG 0710 -SN BKN008
TEMPO 0912 16015G25KT 1200 SN OVC002
EGGW 291630Z 300018 16012KT 6000 SCT010 PROB40
TEMPO 0001 -SN BKN008
BECMG 0710 -SN BKN008
TEMPO 0912 16015G25KT 1200 SN OVC002
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This all assumes you believe the metman
Since they moved to a bunker in Exeter the standard of forecasts has gone really downhill
It is now 02:20 and CAVOK and has been fine for most of the night.
Since they moved to a bunker in Exeter the standard of forecasts has gone really downhillIt is now 02:20 and CAVOK and has been fine for most of the night.
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Well its 6:20 now and so far not a flake of snow. This is the latest current warning issued by the met office just over an hour ago.
Drifting Snow & Heavy Snow
Affecting Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Luton, Milton Keynes, Norfolk, Northamptonshire, Peterborough, Southend-On-Sea, Suffolk & Thurrock
Outbreaks of snow, heavy at times, are expected to spread from the west later tonight and during Friday morning. 3 to 6cm of lying snow are expected for a time over lower ground with 10 to 15cm over hills, this combined with strong winds and drifting to bring dangerous driving conditions. Less cold weather will bring a thaw later today.
Issued by Met Office.
Valid from: Friday 30 December, 2005 at 05:00
Expires on: Friday 30 December, 2005 at 18:00
Well Luton is probably the most hilly area of the affected area so I am expecting up to 15cm. NOT
Drifting Snow & Heavy Snow
Affecting Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Luton, Milton Keynes, Norfolk, Northamptonshire, Peterborough, Southend-On-Sea, Suffolk & Thurrock
Outbreaks of snow, heavy at times, are expected to spread from the west later tonight and during Friday morning. 3 to 6cm of lying snow are expected for a time over lower ground with 10 to 15cm over hills, this combined with strong winds and drifting to bring dangerous driving conditions. Less cold weather will bring a thaw later today.
Issued by Met Office.
Valid from: Friday 30 December, 2005 at 05:00
Expires on: Friday 30 December, 2005 at 18:00
Well Luton is probably the most hilly area of the affected area so I am expecting up to 15cm. NOT
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EGGW 300820Z METAR: 17013KT 130V210 4000 -SN SCT003 BKN005 01/M00 Q1001 and all flights operating normally.
Looks like the Met Office over-reacted yet again!
Trouble is, they've never really recovered from that "...it isn't a hurricane madam, so don't worry" comment...
Looks like the Met Office over-reacted yet again!
Trouble is, they've never really recovered from that "...it isn't a hurricane madam, so don't worry" comment...
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Landing aircraft have all reported good braking actions and it is raining at the airport now but the lack of snow hasn’t stopped the airport from closing so they can brush the runway. Not sure what they are meant to be brushing but it isn’t snow!
update at 10.27
Runway re-opened for 30 minutes but closed again for at least 1 hour after 2 aircraft reported poor braking since the last brushing. All very strange as the braking action was good before they started brushing and it has only rained since they started. Rover 1 reports that the runway seems fine to him.
update at 10.27
Runway re-opened for 30 minutes but closed again for at least 1 hour after 2 aircraft reported poor braking since the last brushing. All very strange as the braking action was good before they started brushing and it has only rained since they started. Rover 1 reports that the runway seems fine to him.
Last edited by King Pong; 30th Dec 2005 at 09:39.
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...all very strange as the braking action was good before they started brushing and it has only rained since they started.
Since a runway's white runway markings retain less heat than its other surfaces, it's usually these that can be slippery with ice before other surfaces follow suit.
Freezing rain or rain falling onto freezing surfaces is the most likely cause of the poor braking action which can be addressed by the application of chemical de-icing agent.
Brushing on the other hand, is a total waste of time!!
Any LLAO Ops vehicle driver's visual inspection is likely to be only partially effective - a full braking action measurement is the only way to accurately assess the situation. This requires a runway closure for around 10 to 15 minutes.
aceatco, retired
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I checked the TAF last night before bed and it was dire. The 07-16 early this morning was better, just showing mainly RA and DZ. By the time I had arrived at work 25 min later it had been amended to 200M +SN again! Verbally we were told we could expect 6-7cm.
The runway was mainly wet through de-icer but when the snow started falling onto it you ended up with the only possible outcome, slush. There is only one thing you can do with slush and that is sweep. This they did and re-opened for a while but with the continuing falling of snow (and it was snow) the same thing happened. Following a report of adverse braking there was no option but to close again for sweeping.
You cannot reliably measure b/a on a wet/slushy runway. If you do this before deciding to sweep you just waste time. They got on with it and swept.
I don't think they did too badly in a no win situation.
The runway was mainly wet through de-icer but when the snow started falling onto it you ended up with the only possible outcome, slush. There is only one thing you can do with slush and that is sweep. This they did and re-opened for a while but with the continuing falling of snow (and it was snow) the same thing happened. Following a report of adverse braking there was no option but to close again for sweeping.
You cannot reliably measure b/a on a wet/slushy runway. If you do this before deciding to sweep you just waste time. They got on with it and swept.
I don't think they did too badly in a no win situation.
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I was also listening out on a strange set of circumstances. Rover 1 or was it Rover 2 could not perform an official grip test as the runway was too wet for the instrument so they had to rely on a visual inspection and the comments of landing aircraft. Rover reported that there was slight slush in places around the centre line to a depth of 1mm (not cm) and also a little slush again to a depth of 1 mm on the south side of the runway but apart from standing water the runway seemed fine. A landing Aer Arran ATR then stated that the runway was so slippery that if he were in a jet he would have gone off the end of the runway.
ATC then sent Rover back onto the runway for a further inspection. He reports that once again the runway seems fine and if anything there is less slush than before. He also reported that he thought the ATR landed late and a fair way down the runway.
A Falcon on approach was informed of the previous comments of the ATR and given the option of landing. He agreed to make an approach, on landing he also said the runway surface was poor so the runway was closed immediately for a 4 brush sweep.
Interesting comment from Vintage ATCO. I went for a walk in driving rain at Tea Green as they were about to start the second brushing. Tea Green is at the same hight as the airport and only around half a mile way. It had been raining mixed with a little sleet for a good hour before that.
ATC then sent Rover back onto the runway for a further inspection. He reports that once again the runway seems fine and if anything there is less slush than before. He also reported that he thought the ATR landed late and a fair way down the runway.
A Falcon on approach was informed of the previous comments of the ATR and given the option of landing. He agreed to make an approach, on landing he also said the runway surface was poor so the runway was closed immediately for a 4 brush sweep.
Interesting comment from Vintage ATCO. I went for a walk in driving rain at Tea Green as they were about to start the second brushing. Tea Green is at the same hight as the airport and only around half a mile way. It had been raining mixed with a little sleet for a good hour before that.
Last edited by LTNman; 30th Dec 2005 at 15:08.
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The inability (owing to inaccuracies in the available measuring equipment) of assessing and reporting braking action on a wet or slush-covered runway is a shortcoming that's been known by the UK CAA and a majority of airlines/aircraft operators for some years.
It's also been an issue raised by NATS at some of its Scottish ATC units because there are occasions when it's clear to ATC that a runway is 'contaminated' and so the braking action is probably less than 'good' but - unless reported by a pilot - no report can be issued by ATC even if the airport authority undertakes a braking action assessment.
Discussions have taken place within the CAA and the Airfield Operators' Association (AOA) but thus far, no progress has been made towards a solution.
Therefore, this most unsatisfactory situation continues at all UK airports.
Luton is no exception.
It's also been an issue raised by NATS at some of its Scottish ATC units because there are occasions when it's clear to ATC that a runway is 'contaminated' and so the braking action is probably less than 'good' but - unless reported by a pilot - no report can be issued by ATC even if the airport authority undertakes a braking action assessment.
Discussions have taken place within the CAA and the Airfield Operators' Association (AOA) but thus far, no progress has been made towards a solution.
Therefore, this most unsatisfactory situation continues at all UK airports.
Luton is no exception.
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LTNman
It doesn't really matter if it was snow, rain or volcanic ash falling from the heavens, what matters is the runway state. The airport dealt with the state as they saw it. I don't think it was a bad call.
Sorry but I won't comment on specifics.
It doesn't really matter if it was snow, rain or volcanic ash falling from the heavens, what matters is the runway state. The airport dealt with the state as they saw it. I don't think it was a bad call.
Sorry but I won't comment on specifics.
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Pages and pages of rubbish relating to the weather, mostly started by folk who have nothing better to do than listen and watch the airport authority deal with ever changing met conditions. For goodness sake , it is December, nearly January. It actually sometimes snows!
Now let us get back on track: Are Ryanair downsizing for S06, it certainly seems so? Maybe they are reducing the number of flights simply as it can snow in Bedfordshire!
Luton to Acapulco, I guess some sad folk on here would be worried about it snowing in Mexico! Then again, some would probably think that you can make a Klagenfurter into a hotdog?
Probably not going to be much going on within the orange 'shrink wrapped HQ', for folk in there will be spending thier awesome bonus on winter sun holidays? The figures that I have been told make me think that easyJet will always play second fiddle to Ryanair!
Anyway, if huge bonus payments are in your contract of employment, then WELL DONE! I assume therefore that the orange mob will post a profit next quarter? Yer right!
Now let us get back on track: Are Ryanair downsizing for S06, it certainly seems so? Maybe they are reducing the number of flights simply as it can snow in Bedfordshire!
Luton to Acapulco, I guess some sad folk on here would be worried about it snowing in Mexico! Then again, some would probably think that you can make a Klagenfurter into a hotdog?
Probably not going to be much going on within the orange 'shrink wrapped HQ', for folk in there will be spending thier awesome bonus on winter sun holidays? The figures that I have been told make me think that easyJet will always play second fiddle to Ryanair!
Anyway, if huge bonus payments are in your contract of employment, then WELL DONE! I assume therefore that the orange mob will post a profit next quarter? Yer right!
'Therefore, this most unsatisfactory situation continues at all UK airports.'
Not just the UK ones unfortunately.
I watched three easy's and two ryanairs depart yesterday morning. As VATCO says it was definitely snow, almost certainly there was an element of slush as evident from the rooster tails of spray from the nose and main wheels as they came past, and the cak underneath my feet!. Far more spray than a wet runway normally produces.
Not just the UK ones unfortunately.
I watched three easy's and two ryanairs depart yesterday morning. As VATCO says it was definitely snow, almost certainly there was an element of slush as evident from the rooster tails of spray from the nose and main wheels as they came past, and the cak underneath my feet!. Far more spray than a wet runway normally produces.
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Are Ryanair downsizing for S06, it certainly seems so?
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If Ryanair are downsizing for 2006 then one can conclude that Luton is turning out to be under performing for the airline.
STN being so close is always going to be a problem, not just with ryanair, but with all airlines, and this is something the Luton operators have got to hack, bigtime, if they want to develop & expand the airport to anything along the lines of their ambitious 2030 plans, recently made public.
Last edited by Powerjet1; 31st Dec 2005 at 07:47.
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After the large gains in passenger numbers over the last year maybe a bit of static growth wouldn’t be such a bad thing. While there is certainly spare capacity still in the terminal, which has been helped by the new expanded arrivals area, airport funded access to the airport whether by road or rail is appalling. Traffic congestion in the central area at times is shameful as is the overloading of the shuttle busses from the station. Yet the airport authority doesn’t seem to be prepared to do anything about it.
Airport sponsored traffic wardens who actually enforce the traffic regulations would cure overnight all the congestion caused by parked cars in the drop off zone. A few years back the airport did have its own traffic wardens who were wimps and did nothing if drivers sat in their cars. Now you can park in the drop off area and take two weeks holiday in the sun knowing that your car will be ignored.
No doubt the problem with traffic wardens from the airport’s point of view is cost but there will come a time when the airport will have to face the stark truth that they will have to spend some money and cure the problem.
When Parkway Station first opened there were 4 busses on the service, two in transit while a bus sat at each end. Now there are often only 2 busses on the route with passengers crammed in so tight that the busses can hardly get up the hill. The airport did trial a bendy bus last summer which transformed passengers experiences on the shuttle but for what ever reason an order for replacement busses never materialized.
With building work set to make the central area even smaller and more congested next year maybe zero growth would not be a bad thing for a year or two which would allow the airport to catch its breath.
Airport sponsored traffic wardens who actually enforce the traffic regulations would cure overnight all the congestion caused by parked cars in the drop off zone. A few years back the airport did have its own traffic wardens who were wimps and did nothing if drivers sat in their cars. Now you can park in the drop off area and take two weeks holiday in the sun knowing that your car will be ignored.
No doubt the problem with traffic wardens from the airport’s point of view is cost but there will come a time when the airport will have to face the stark truth that they will have to spend some money and cure the problem.
When Parkway Station first opened there were 4 busses on the service, two in transit while a bus sat at each end. Now there are often only 2 busses on the route with passengers crammed in so tight that the busses can hardly get up the hill. The airport did trial a bendy bus last summer which transformed passengers experiences on the shuttle but for what ever reason an order for replacement busses never materialized.
With building work set to make the central area even smaller and more congested next year maybe zero growth would not be a bad thing for a year or two which would allow the airport to catch its breath.
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I see that airport revenue is taking a pounding due to the activities of the off airport car park companies. Never seen the mid term car park so empty over the Christmas period. The mid term used to be bursting even when there were only 4 or 5 million passengers using LTN.