Euromanx
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Lies, damned lies and selective statistics. IOM-LCY 1august 0800 return 5 august 0940 is £116. Fly same dates but midday flights and its £325 so you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UAE
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A number of recent moves at EM actually suggest that the airline is starting to get its act together. I understand the Sabre reservation system is now in place and that EM has now gone ticketless, they have employed some very experienced staff in key roles and the aircraft are now in place. I agree though that crewing is now the main problem, foreign pilots have come to the Island, decided they didn't like it and left, that's always going to be a problem with the rock.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Isle of Man
Age: 44
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As a Manxman soon to be on the FATPL pile what are the chances of getting a job?? 
I must be mad to suggest it but If i can stay at home then i can save and pay off the hefty bank loan and my very supportive parents 
I must be mad to suggest it but If i can stay at home then i can save and pay off the hefty bank loan and my very supportive parents
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Her place
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It certainly looks like whoever updates their website has left too - the last update was mid-April talking about the new Galway and Paris services (although it says Galway nonstop to Paris, it actually operates via IOM) whilst their schedules are "unavailable at the present time".
>>Lies, damned lies and selective statistics.<<
Agreed. However . . . It does seem that there is a paucity of the cheaper tickets these days. For that, there has to be a reason.
Agreed. However . . . It does seem that there is a paucity of the cheaper tickets these days. For that, there has to be a reason.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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they are not very selective statistics - almost every Liverpool - Isle of Man round trip for the next two weeks (with the exception of two services each way per day which seem to be at £99) is at £183 when they seemed to be £50 or £60 tops before. Even Eastern to Birmingham and Leeds is cheaper, which really puts it into context.
A textbook case of what analysts always say happens when a previously competed route loses competition or two competitors merge operations.
A textbook case of what analysts always say happens when a previously competed route loses competition or two competitors merge operations.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Euroland
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Oh, come now. If you do your best and don't get involved in anything silly, your reputation will be just fine. It isn't a pilots fault if the airline management make bad decisions. Other airlines certainly don't refuse to hire on the basis of a previous employers' performance.
I have worked for three airlines that have gone broke, over the years, and have never had a problem being re-employed - in fact in every case the next job was a significant step up.
The real question with Euromanx seems to be - do the people running it have the character to bring it through their present difficulties?
Don't forget that flybe came very, very close to shutting down a few years ago. It was the character and determination of the current management that plucked it from oblivion, and trust me, they were within hours of death. They are certainly a lot healthier now.
I have worked for three airlines that have gone broke, over the years, and have never had a problem being re-employed - in fact in every case the next job was a significant step up.
The real question with Euromanx seems to be - do the people running it have the character to bring it through their present difficulties?
Don't forget that flybe came very, very close to shutting down a few years ago. It was the character and determination of the current management that plucked it from oblivion, and trust me, they were within hours of death. They are certainly a lot healthier now.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Trust me...
If a company management has the wrong attitude regarding fligth safety, crewing and training standards it IS your problem. What if you are line training captain and get pressure from the management to release a completely unready (no experience in flying airliners, you have to explain him that the echo on the radar is NOT a island, it is a CB) guy after 10 sectors to fly with unexperienced First Officers? Would you do that? Go ahead. If you are holding in the KELLY hold due to below minimum ceiling and you get the command via company freq "land now, or we have to talk later", is that safe? What if OPS has to seperate different line trainer from a certain trainee captain because they refuse to fly with him? If someone blows a tire during a landing and no investigation is carried out? TRUST ME, DON'T even get close....
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Euroland
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Like I said... if you don't do anything silly. All the things you describe are silly.
I'm a 146 line trainer, and quite frankly one of the tools of the trade is being sure of your ground, and standing it whenever you have to. There are ways of ensuring your career doesn't suffer - keeping good records is one of them.
There is no way you can end up with a problem if you refuse to land below minima - all the facts are on your side. In fact, if you do, it is likely that both you and the company will be in the crap.
If your Ops Manual allows you to release a guy to the line under the conditions you describe - and most don't - just pass it on to the Chief Pilot. I have failed quite a few in my time, as long as your reasons are sound (and the paperwork reflects that), you are fine.
It may be as bad as you describe, I don't know, but there are ways to protect yourself.
So I guess you are saying I shouldn't apply then...???
I'm a 146 line trainer, and quite frankly one of the tools of the trade is being sure of your ground, and standing it whenever you have to. There are ways of ensuring your career doesn't suffer - keeping good records is one of them.
There is no way you can end up with a problem if you refuse to land below minima - all the facts are on your side. In fact, if you do, it is likely that both you and the company will be in the crap.
If your Ops Manual allows you to release a guy to the line under the conditions you describe - and most don't - just pass it on to the Chief Pilot. I have failed quite a few in my time, as long as your reasons are sound (and the paperwork reflects that), you are fine.
It may be as bad as you describe, I don't know, but there are ways to protect yourself.
So I guess you are saying I shouldn't apply then...???
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alba sor
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Spartacan, good advice.
Like MOR, I am quite curious to see whats on offer to rated and experienced Skippers. I cannot comment on the 146, but I believe the 328 deal is very attractive, and the tax situation in being employed on the Island is a major bonus.
Anyone know some REAL info, and more generally, are residence rights on the rock fairly straightforward?
Like MOR, I am quite curious to see whats on offer to rated and experienced Skippers. I cannot comment on the 146, but I believe the 328 deal is very attractive, and the tax situation in being employed on the Island is a major bonus.
Anyone know some REAL info, and more generally, are residence rights on the rock fairly straightforward?
Meeb, PPJN http://www.ppjn.com/ has some details about Euromanx salaries.
Isle of Man residency is straightforward for a UK National or EU citizen.
Search the Isle of Man Government website http://www.gov.im/ for details.
Broadly speaking you need to be resident for five years to gain a work permit. However, if the employer cannot find enough recruits locally, then they can make an individual case for taking you on. For Euromanx seeking pilots this would obviously not be a problem.
Of course, if you are going to move to the Isle of Man then you need to be sure that your employer is reasonably stable. Quite a few long haul pilots (Virgin, BA and Mytravel) live on the Rock and commute to the UK whilst remaining non resident for UK tax.
It's something you have to look into quite carefully though.
Isle of Man residency is straightforward for a UK National or EU citizen.
Search the Isle of Man Government website http://www.gov.im/ for details.
Broadly speaking you need to be resident for five years to gain a work permit. However, if the employer cannot find enough recruits locally, then they can make an individual case for taking you on. For Euromanx seeking pilots this would obviously not be a problem.
Of course, if you are going to move to the Isle of Man then you need to be sure that your employer is reasonably stable. Quite a few long haul pilots (Virgin, BA and Mytravel) live on the Rock and commute to the UK whilst remaining non resident for UK tax.
It's something you have to look into quite carefully though.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Euroland
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Spartacan gets it! Keep good records and cover your ass at all times. Remember that you can always find another employer, but not another licence.
Hmmm I thought that Fraggle Rock was tax-free, but from the government website it appears that you can pay 18% tax. Better than the UK, but not exactly tax-free.
Still, in the end it comes down to the quality (or otherwise) of the pilot management. That is the "X" factor as far as I am concerned.
Hmmm I thought that Fraggle Rock was tax-free, but from the government website it appears that you can pay 18% tax. Better than the UK, but not exactly tax-free.
Still, in the end it comes down to the quality (or otherwise) of the pilot management. That is the "X" factor as far as I am concerned.
Cool Mod
Join Date: Apr 1998
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It seems to me that the same people who were involved with the previous Manx battering, are participating again.
There is no doubt some hard working staff in EM and they had to put up with verbal abuse in the previous threads. That was out of order then and it is out of order now. Spreading 'rumours' that turn out to be figments of someone's imagination is both stupid and childish. If two or three people have left EM that is not an 'Exodus.'
Please be certain to use facts and not fiction. It takes little effort to be sensible so those who that aren't will be prevented joining in any further debate.
PPP
There is no doubt some hard working staff in EM and they had to put up with verbal abuse in the previous threads. That was out of order then and it is out of order now. Spreading 'rumours' that turn out to be figments of someone's imagination is both stupid and childish. If two or three people have left EM that is not an 'Exodus.'
Please be certain to use facts and not fiction. It takes little effort to be sensible so those who that aren't will be prevented joining in any further debate.
PPP
This local comment from the 'Isle of Man Today' illuminates matters somewhat!
http://www.iomonline.co.im/ViewArtic...icleID=1088191
http://www.iomonline.co.im/ViewArtic...icleID=1088191
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Spartican,
how does this link illuminate the "exodus at euromanx" it doesn't mention anything about staff leaving the airline.
Yes granted they do have dome serious delays sometimes, what other airline in the world doesn't. It sound's like some good euromanx bashing going on. maybe you need to look at the fact that many of these passengers origanally booked their flights with emerald, and after they pulled off the route, euromanx took there flights on, but unfortunately not all the flight times where the same, maybe that is why the where put on later flights.
cwl
how does this link illuminate the "exodus at euromanx" it doesn't mention anything about staff leaving the airline.
Yes granted they do have dome serious delays sometimes, what other airline in the world doesn't. It sound's like some good euromanx bashing going on. maybe you need to look at the fact that many of these passengers origanally booked their flights with emerald, and after they pulled off the route, euromanx took there flights on, but unfortunately not all the flight times where the same, maybe that is why the where put on later flights.
cwl
Join Date: Feb 2005
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MOR, with regard to your "tax free" comment. The Island basic rate of tax is 10% with the top rate at 18%. I am not sure of the threshold for top rate ( I don't get paid enough!) but if Pilots are triggering it then the salary can't be that bad.
With regards to Euromanx's apparently perilous position, they have just moved into new offices in the old Freeport and they are taking on support staff. Not really the actions of an airline about to go under I would have thought. And that might explain any glitch in their website - never a good thing moving computers, damn things arre so sensitive!!
skiddy
With regards to Euromanx's apparently perilous position, they have just moved into new offices in the old Freeport and they are taking on support staff. Not really the actions of an airline about to go under I would have thought. And that might explain any glitch in their website - never a good thing moving computers, damn things arre so sensitive!!
skiddy
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Skiddy, all I know is what I have found on the IoM govt website. Not sure what Euromanx are paying, it may vary anyway if they are having trouble finding crews.
I guess I just assumed it was tax-free over there.
Anyway I wouldn't be going there for the tax status - I'd be going for the TT!
I guess I just assumed it was tax-free over there.
Anyway I wouldn't be going there for the tax status - I'd be going for the TT!