Airline programme,easy jet
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Airline programme,easy jet
Watching an airline episode recently, yet another case of not quite late pax being refused carraige because the Capt VIA THE DISPATCHER has refused to board them . Usually the aircraft is about to board or is boarding and the time spent arguing would easily facilitate an LMC in SOME cases. Ie small airport, no queues, handbaggage. bit of time to juggle etc. But this would require actually asking the capt, not possibly presenting a loaded scenario , if any at all.
It gives the impression that we are ruthless arrogant lot .I always TRY to board lmcs as it could be the high point of someones year and altho they should know the score , even one innocent executed is too many. I'm sure most skippers are a benevolant (or is it malevolant ) lot , so are we being besmirched on national t.v.by the chain of little hitlers leading up to the true leader of men in the cockpit. I have had many ocasions where i would have been happy to accept and have had to have a crm meeting with the dispatcher who thought he knew more about my slot and making than i did. Particulary if kids are involved. (pax Not dispatchers).
Maybe some Easy chaps could fill me in, or even answer .I'm dont want to argue the merits of a policy just the ruthlessness and some times "camp guard" ( i dont mean a soldier in a pink tutu) way its implemented for which we (as a profession) get tarred, when we may have known nothing about it.
Discuss, oops this is pprune i mean ATTACK
It gives the impression that we are ruthless arrogant lot .I always TRY to board lmcs as it could be the high point of someones year and altho they should know the score , even one innocent executed is too many. I'm sure most skippers are a benevolant (or is it malevolant ) lot , so are we being besmirched on national t.v.by the chain of little hitlers leading up to the true leader of men in the cockpit. I have had many ocasions where i would have been happy to accept and have had to have a crm meeting with the dispatcher who thought he knew more about my slot and making than i did. Particulary if kids are involved. (pax Not dispatchers).
Maybe some Easy chaps could fill me in, or even answer .I'm dont want to argue the merits of a policy just the ruthlessness and some times "camp guard" ( i dont mean a soldier in a pink tutu) way its implemented for which we (as a profession) get tarred, when we may have known nothing about it.
Discuss, oops this is pprune i mean ATTACK
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Mmm. First post...... panning for information..... controversial subject......Jorno/TV researcher alert?
Being kind and responding, lates will usually always be declined if it will cause any further delay or create problems in the paperwork potentially causing a delay. Too many people cut check-in far too fine. If the Groundstaff have to go through significant extra effort because somebody doesn't get to the airport on time, why shouldn't they refuse the passenger?
Being kind and responding, lates will usually always be declined if it will cause any further delay or create problems in the paperwork potentially causing a delay. Too many people cut check-in far too fine. If the Groundstaff have to go through significant extra effort because somebody doesn't get to the airport on time, why shouldn't they refuse the passenger?
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Really, in an operation such as easyJet, the question should never even get as far as the Captain. Check-in closes on time for the benefit of all passengers and the ground staff should deal with it there and then, no need to consult. I know it sounds harsh, but a 30 minute check-in closure is pretty good in the first place.
Paxing All Over The World
At LTN, EZY have moved to a 40 min check in. On the first occasion that I encountered this due to lateness (flat tire!) they were as good as always. They put me on the next flight at no cost and I reached my destination.
My guess is that EZY have decided that this is a line that wil never be crossed. Fine. Over time, pax will learn. If they choose not to travel with EZY ever again - that might not be a bad thing, as it means that other EZY pax will not be delayed by them.
If a pax misses a flight due to late arrival, they might b!tch about it to their friends and try to encourage them not to use EZY but those folks will think, "If I use EZY, I must be on time."
My guess is that EZY have decided that this is a line that wil never be crossed. Fine. Over time, pax will learn. If they choose not to travel with EZY ever again - that might not be a bad thing, as it means that other EZY pax will not be delayed by them.
If a pax misses a flight due to late arrival, they might b!tch about it to their friends and try to encourage them not to use EZY but those folks will think, "If I use EZY, I must be on time."
Seems to be some confusion about EZY's check-in times. Always used to be 30 mins, until 1st March 2003, when their website announced that it had changed to 40 mins, which is also the time stated on a booking email that I received only a few weeks ago (Not a Luton flight). However, easyJet's website today (19/5/2004) reads as follows:-
"easyJet check-in desks close exactly 30 minutes before the scheduled departure of the flight."
Hardly surprising if passengers are
Whilst it behoves pax to allow adequate time to check-in, the rules should be crystal clear, especially when their application is rigid.
"easyJet check-in desks close exactly 30 minutes before the scheduled departure of the flight."
Hardly surprising if passengers are
Whilst it behoves pax to allow adequate time to check-in, the rules should be crystal clear, especially when their application is rigid.
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I have to say that having used EZY several times recently, I applaud the clear policy and their adherence to their own rule, which on my booking notice was 40 minutes. On all ocassions (8) that I have flown with them in the last 3 months push back has been on time and arrival on time/early.
By way of contrast BA seems to completely ignore its own rules (gate closes 10 min before), and I can barely remember a flight of theirs that departed on time from either LHR or LGW. I wish BA would stick to their rules, not only on doors closing but also on cabin hand luggage limitations.
By way of contrast BA seems to completely ignore its own rules (gate closes 10 min before), and I can barely remember a flight of theirs that departed on time from either LHR or LGW. I wish BA would stick to their rules, not only on doors closing but also on cabin hand luggage limitations.
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Some people may be under a slight misapprehension here that easyjet staff occupy the check in desks. They don't. This task is, as are all the ground handling duties on the apron, undertaken by a ground handling agent. In the case of Newcastle, this is Servisair.
It is a personal bugbear of mine as a dispatcher, that on time departures are constantly threatened by late closing of the check in. For easyjet, this has recently been reduced to a 30 minute close out from 40 minutes. I can understand any passenger confusion, as this wasn't even communicated clearly to those of us who need to know.
I also have come to develop a moderate level of intolerance to the (usually) brain-dead morons who check in on time, but then find themselves incapable of making it to the departure gate for boarding in stark contrast to the 100+ other passengers who did. Why do people find this so difficult to do? If you don't think we'll send the aircraft off on time, think again. If you don't want to travel, don't turn up.
It is a personal bugbear of mine as a dispatcher, that on time departures are constantly threatened by late closing of the check in. For easyjet, this has recently been reduced to a 30 minute close out from 40 minutes. I can understand any passenger confusion, as this wasn't even communicated clearly to those of us who need to know.
I also have come to develop a moderate level of intolerance to the (usually) brain-dead morons who check in on time, but then find themselves incapable of making it to the departure gate for boarding in stark contrast to the 100+ other passengers who did. Why do people find this so difficult to do? If you don't think we'll send the aircraft off on time, think again. If you don't want to travel, don't turn up.
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Not so ,
stop being so paranoid its hardly frontpage stuff, just a semi lighthearted discusion,
no sig,
Thats the point the capt shouldnt need to get involved and probably doesnt, but we constanly get the blame on national t.v.
surely jane bolton or the frequent mysterious loady should stand up and be counted.
I dont want to be blamed for pmt or someone whose not gettin any
stop being so paranoid its hardly frontpage stuff, just a semi lighthearted discusion,
no sig,
Thats the point the capt shouldnt need to get involved and probably doesnt, but we constanly get the blame on national t.v.
surely jane bolton or the frequent mysterious loady should stand up and be counted.
I dont want to be blamed for pmt or someone whose not gettin any
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osh,
whats sexists about insulting men AND women,oh bugger i forgot the gays again, oops and the transgender,(pre and post op).
must leave note on computer screen.
Oh and we can still show arse crack on the telly over here.
Wait i minute , this is too fishy, i\'m starting to suspect myself of being a wind up anti pilot mysoginist, researcher.
Ah well at least i\'m on message, it is pprune
whats sexists about insulting men AND women,oh bugger i forgot the gays again, oops and the transgender,(pre and post op).
must leave note on computer screen.
Oh and we can still show arse crack on the telly over here.
Wait i minute , this is too fishy, i\'m starting to suspect myself of being a wind up anti pilot mysoginist, researcher.
Ah well at least i\'m on message, it is pprune
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If easyjet (management) were seriously interested in on time departures, then they would not persist, at many airports on scheduling the ’20 min turnaround’, this is unachievable 99% of the time and therefore results in a late departure unless one has arrived early. I therefore have no qualms at accepting (ej) passengers who may be running slightly late, the time can often be made up en-route. But as witchdoctor points out it is the passengers who have checked in on time, but don’t manage to find the gate who are the most annoying, but if they make it before their bags are located I will even take these blighters. One of the many problems with the ‘Airline’ program is that most Captains will have nothing to do with it, therefore it focuses on the check in. The poor Servisair staff (dressed in Orange) are under a lot of pressure and have to toe the company line or else, blaming the Captain lets them off the hook.
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As far as I'm concerned, final decison on accepting LMC's should rest with the dispatcher because they're responsible for the turn-round. Now with some airlines, pilots will accept LMC's (which delays the flight) and then asks for an on-time departure to be recorded. On the other hand, if the dispatcher accepts LMC's without telling the pilot, and delays the flight, the pilot insists on recording a delay. So if the dispatcher is responsible for driving the turn-round, the decison on LMC's is made by him/her. Some people would say that the LMC question shouldn't be an issue if check-in closure times were adhered to all the time.
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Easyjet are normally very good .... turn up in adequate time, leave on time. I'm flying EDI-LTN-EDI next week, and its a 40 minute min check in time both ways. If past experience is anything to go by, the flight will get me there on time - I've only had one real delay, but then that was from STN at 7am on a Monday morning.
Jordan
Jordan
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the poor old captain
Having worked both sides of the Checkin/Fltcrew fence, the answer is of course obvious....
I have never seen a Captain asked about accepting LMCs's at checkin, but it was always a good line for those ground staff who were too spineless to stand up to pax themselves. It also makes the pax feel the staff are doing something about trying to help, and not just being hard nosed.
In this day and age, of extra security, I would say to the passengers... "but there is a 20min queue at security." This would be beyond the passengers view/knowledge, and also seen as beyond airline control. Both parties happy!! (ish)
I have never seen a Captain asked about accepting LMCs's at checkin, but it was always a good line for those ground staff who were too spineless to stand up to pax themselves. It also makes the pax feel the staff are doing something about trying to help, and not just being hard nosed.
In this day and age, of extra security, I would say to the passengers... "but there is a 20min queue at security." This would be beyond the passengers view/knowledge, and also seen as beyond airline control. Both parties happy!! (ish)
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The easyJet Ground Handling Manual has been recently amended with regards to LMC's, and now states that neither dispatchers, operations (ground handling ops), or the aircraft commander are to be asked to accept LMC's. According to the manual, LMC's (LRP's) are never to be accepted.
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From GHM update issued 04 May 04 :
04.21.6 CHECK-IN TIME LIMITS
Standard flight closure at all stations on easyJet flights is STD-30 minutes.
- Passengers who present themselves after this time are not to be accepted for travel and are to be refered to the Sales Desk
- Handling companies are not to contact the Aircraft Dispatcher, Operations, or the commander to obtain authorisation to accept late arriving passengers.
Standard flight closure at all stations on easyJet flights is STD-30 minutes.
- Passengers who present themselves after this time are not to be accepted for travel and are to be refered to the Sales Desk
- Handling companies are not to contact the Aircraft Dispatcher, Operations, or the commander to obtain authorisation to accept late arriving passengers.
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According to the manual, LMC's (LRP's) are never to be accepted.
Ever been to the theatre, and had the first act ruined by the "ups and downs" for the latecomers? Really hacks me off when I can be bothered to get there on time.
Pity about the now obvious confusion between going from 30mins to 40mins, and now back to 30mins...