Dana Air Passenger plane 'crashes into building in Lagos'
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ediks,
The NCAA still issues validations based on foreign licences and it requires at least 2 revalidations before considering an application for a Nigerian licence. All that is required for the validation is for the foreign licence to be verified, the Nigerian Air Law exam to be passed and an NCAA medical certificate issued. The whole process can be completed in a few weeks.
I thought the NCAA are supposed to have stopped issuing validations based on foreign licences so he'd have required a Nigerian Licence which involved sitting for the air law exam, the MD-83 type technical, processing his Licence (ie waiting for the NCAA to issue it, not exactly a speedy process) then doing the number of required sectors during line training
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4runner: I meant to imply nothing of the sort and if I did, I apologise unreservedly.
However, if you have flown in Nigeria you would understand that there are challenges which you may face that can come as quite a shock to someone who is new to it all.
A good example would be understanding ATC clearances, there is one controller at least at DNMM who speaks quite quickly though I find him to be the nicest of the bunch as he always sounds like he is having fun.
MamaPut: Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected!!
However, if you have flown in Nigeria you would understand that there are challenges which you may face that can come as quite a shock to someone who is new to it all.
A good example would be understanding ATC clearances, there is one controller at least at DNMM who speaks quite quickly though I find him to be the nicest of the bunch as he always sounds like he is having fun.
MamaPut: Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected!!
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Tragic event......on the lighter side, the comments from the above link have some of the most insightful views of modern aviation in Africa. I think most people still believe it to be some form of magic.....anyone got a magic wand to resolve Africa's problems ?
"HAVING SEEN EMERGENCY EVACUATION OPERATION CARRIED OUT FROM THE LARGEST COMMERCIAL AIRLINER IN THE WORLD AIRBUS A380 CONDUCTED,I WILL SINCERELY ADVICE THAT AIRBUS,BOEING & CO TO START DEVELOPING A SYSTEM BY DEPLOYING AN EMERGENCY EVACUATION PARACHUTE ON EVERY PASSENGER’S ON-BOARD SEATS,AS SOON AS PILOT ANNOUNCES DUAL ENGINE FAILURE,THEN THE PILOT WILL WAIT FOR THE AIRCRAFT TOO AT LEAST GET TO 800-700 FEET WHERE PEOPLE CAN BREATH BEFORE AUTOMATIC EJECT FROM HIS SWITCH GEAR IN THE COCK PIT,I KNOWN THIS PROJECT HIS EXPENSIVE BUT HOW MUCH IS LIFE ITSELF WORTH."
"This investigation is good; i think is the first of its kind in Nigeria, well done puch crew. Back to the crashed matter,the plane was over loaded both buy human and logages,this reduced the speed of the plane and also forced it to come down immediately the engine shot down.An airplane suppose to glide for at least 15 minutes after engine failure but this one droppped immediately? another factor i want to mention here is that most of crashes has alway been on weekends, meaning that the trafic controller that are experienced are not alway around as the case maybe "to give meanful advice to pilots when we have such emergency.Lets look at that as well."
" If both your aircraft engines get fried and you have only “five minutes” to go down as claimed, start dumping your fuel fast! It will reduce the intensity and duration of a fire in the event of one (and possibly save lives).
Also, if the aircraft’s nose was tipped upward like witnesses said, that indicates a lack of jet propulsion. It is the same physics principle if you’ve ever played with a cylindrical-shaped balloon that releases air and flies through the air.
A descent of 5000 feet in 5 minutes gives about 16 feet per second. That is faster than a huge vulture would drop from the skies after it is has been shot in the head. Any experienced pilot knows they would never have made it to the runway.
That both engines of a commercial aircraft failed right after take-off reflects either: (1) gross negligence (2) a conspiracy."
"HAVING SEEN EMERGENCY EVACUATION OPERATION CARRIED OUT FROM THE LARGEST COMMERCIAL AIRLINER IN THE WORLD AIRBUS A380 CONDUCTED,I WILL SINCERELY ADVICE THAT AIRBUS,BOEING & CO TO START DEVELOPING A SYSTEM BY DEPLOYING AN EMERGENCY EVACUATION PARACHUTE ON EVERY PASSENGER’S ON-BOARD SEATS,AS SOON AS PILOT ANNOUNCES DUAL ENGINE FAILURE,THEN THE PILOT WILL WAIT FOR THE AIRCRAFT TOO AT LEAST GET TO 800-700 FEET WHERE PEOPLE CAN BREATH BEFORE AUTOMATIC EJECT FROM HIS SWITCH GEAR IN THE COCK PIT,I KNOWN THIS PROJECT HIS EXPENSIVE BUT HOW MUCH IS LIFE ITSELF WORTH."
"This investigation is good; i think is the first of its kind in Nigeria, well done puch crew. Back to the crashed matter,the plane was over loaded both buy human and logages,this reduced the speed of the plane and also forced it to come down immediately the engine shot down.An airplane suppose to glide for at least 15 minutes after engine failure but this one droppped immediately? another factor i want to mention here is that most of crashes has alway been on weekends, meaning that the trafic controller that are experienced are not alway around as the case maybe "to give meanful advice to pilots when we have such emergency.Lets look at that as well."
" If both your aircraft engines get fried and you have only “five minutes” to go down as claimed, start dumping your fuel fast! It will reduce the intensity and duration of a fire in the event of one (and possibly save lives).
Also, if the aircraft’s nose was tipped upward like witnesses said, that indicates a lack of jet propulsion. It is the same physics principle if you’ve ever played with a cylindrical-shaped balloon that releases air and flies through the air.
A descent of 5000 feet in 5 minutes gives about 16 feet per second. That is faster than a huge vulture would drop from the skies after it is has been shot in the head. Any experienced pilot knows they would never have made it to the runway.
That both engines of a commercial aircraft failed right after take-off reflects either: (1) gross negligence (2) a conspiracy."
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Golf Sierra: The engines failed on approach to land after an en route flight of 49 minutes.
What we all would like to know is why?
What we all would like to know is why?
Last edited by ediks; 12th Jun 2012 at 22:21.
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Ediks
What we all would like to know is why?
Golf Seirra was merely taking a few quotes from the citizens of Nigeria who may not have a full understanding of the matter in hand. Whilst not a laughing matter he was trying (understandably) to inject a little humour into this terrible event.
I'll be honest in that I did find some of the comments amusing.
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Their a/c was a 70 ton glider. They had the worst kind of emergency you can imagine. No one panicked over the radio, no one screamed. The flew the airplane, navigated to the airport and calmly communicated on the radio. The last thing anyone heard from these gentlemen who probably knew their time was up, was "Good day"... I'm proud to be a pilot and it is an honour to share the skies with guys like this.
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Not so sure about that one...
Crashing into a populated area, killing yourself, all aboard and some folks on the ground... that seems to fall into the category of 'making a bit of a mess of things,' doesn't it? Screaming is 'out,' yes, but even more so is crashing and dying, whatever the reason.
There's an odd mindset at work when people need to imagine what went on in the cockpit of an accident aircraft while knowing next to nothing of the facts. (The only first-hand account I ever had was really surprising, nothing like what I would have guessed, from a fellow who was sat on the jumpseat during a crash that killed both flight crew.)
I think we need to wait for some more information before we apportion praise or blame. According to Flight International's David Learmount, there should be some sort of initial report from the Nigerian authorities in about a month. I want to see that before I even start to think about what happened there. That they must have run out of fuel is the most obvious, best guess, but then the big question would be 'Why?' on what is normally a flight of about one hour.
Like most accidents, this one is likely to have been the product of a chain of events, when right now we are missing most of the links.
There's an odd mindset at work when people need to imagine what went on in the cockpit of an accident aircraft while knowing next to nothing of the facts. (The only first-hand account I ever had was really surprising, nothing like what I would have guessed, from a fellow who was sat on the jumpseat during a crash that killed both flight crew.)
I think we need to wait for some more information before we apportion praise or blame. According to Flight International's David Learmount, there should be some sort of initial report from the Nigerian authorities in about a month. I want to see that before I even start to think about what happened there. That they must have run out of fuel is the most obvious, best guess, but then the big question would be 'Why?' on what is normally a flight of about one hour.
Like most accidents, this one is likely to have been the product of a chain of events, when right now we are missing most of the links.
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So let's drag them through the mud instead...A populated area in the largest city in Afrika??? Sorry that Lagos didn't have a Hudson river nearby. We know that the a/c went down and that these guys died with some dignity. As for the NCAA report, it will probably be altered to fit the needs of the highest bidder. I have a feeling that parts of the a/c are now for sale in the local market and that the scene was anything but a sterile investigation site. I'm not laying blame yet as we dont know exactly what happened. I am however, giving a silent nod to the crew that looks like they did what they had to do in the final moments of their lives.
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Nobody knows what went on there, yet.
That flight had an inarguably lousy outcome, didn't it? Ending up in a smoking heap is pretty undignified, at least to my way of thinking; that's not an outcome one really seeks. That is about it for now, though.
It's not that one wishes to "drag" anyone "through the mud," but it takes much more than saying the right things on the radio to merit any sort of "Well done!" We shouldn't forget that 'accountability' thing that crews have to contend with, when this flight ended in disaster. It might well be that there was nothing better that the crew could have done under the circumstances; we have to wait and see about that, but I think it's a bit premature to congratulate them on a job well done. It might make more sense to wait for the accident report to see about that. As to that, the NCAA has been given much more freedom from political influence, so that we may see a perfectly acceptable accident investigation and report. Even in the past I remember reading some accident reports that seemed perfectly straight.
The main thing must be to figure out what went wrong so that we may avoid having such an accident in future. If the radio calls went right, well, Okay, but that is very much beside the point in figuring out what we really need to know, what went wrong, isn't it? We need to know how to avoid having this sort of accident, if possible.
That the crew may have been totally calm and collected while having the accident... it's nice to think so, but what use is speculating about that, since it didn't seem to give a very good outcome?
At a certain point you the pilot may find yourself 'just along for the ride,' once your other options have all been used up. The whole point of a crash investigation for a pilot may be to tell one how to avoid getting into such a situation that one ends up crashing in this way.
How one behaves once one is in such a fix, well... I don't waste a lot of time worrying about that! You have some accident crews who were pretty emotional, yet they lived, and others who were total stoics, yet they died. That's down to individual character, I suppose, when what we need to know about is how to survive whatever just killed all these people.
That flight had an inarguably lousy outcome, didn't it? Ending up in a smoking heap is pretty undignified, at least to my way of thinking; that's not an outcome one really seeks. That is about it for now, though.
It's not that one wishes to "drag" anyone "through the mud," but it takes much more than saying the right things on the radio to merit any sort of "Well done!" We shouldn't forget that 'accountability' thing that crews have to contend with, when this flight ended in disaster. It might well be that there was nothing better that the crew could have done under the circumstances; we have to wait and see about that, but I think it's a bit premature to congratulate them on a job well done. It might make more sense to wait for the accident report to see about that. As to that, the NCAA has been given much more freedom from political influence, so that we may see a perfectly acceptable accident investigation and report. Even in the past I remember reading some accident reports that seemed perfectly straight.
The main thing must be to figure out what went wrong so that we may avoid having such an accident in future. If the radio calls went right, well, Okay, but that is very much beside the point in figuring out what we really need to know, what went wrong, isn't it? We need to know how to avoid having this sort of accident, if possible.
That the crew may have been totally calm and collected while having the accident... it's nice to think so, but what use is speculating about that, since it didn't seem to give a very good outcome?
At a certain point you the pilot may find yourself 'just along for the ride,' once your other options have all been used up. The whole point of a crash investigation for a pilot may be to tell one how to avoid getting into such a situation that one ends up crashing in this way.
How one behaves once one is in such a fix, well... I don't waste a lot of time worrying about that! You have some accident crews who were pretty emotional, yet they lived, and others who were total stoics, yet they died. That's down to individual character, I suppose, when what we need to know about is how to survive whatever just killed all these people.
Last edited by chuks; 13th Jun 2012 at 12:35.
