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Converting to South African CPL

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Converting to South African CPL

Old 11th Apr 2012, 15:29
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Africa
Age: 31
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Converting to South African CPL

Hi there,

Just looking for some help, does anybody know how I could convert my Australian CPL, ME and IR to the South African version because the CAA website just isn't user friendly at all

I see there's exams I have to write as well (Met, Flight Perf and planning, Airlaw and procedures), do you know the pass marks for all these and what texts books would you recommend?

Cheers
SwizzyAwsum is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2012, 16:42
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Durban / S.Africa
Age: 43
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Pass mark is 75%.. The AVEX books are awesome and and take a look the website foxone.co.za . The questions are so similar and you can purchase it online..
ozgur is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2012, 12:36
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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If you are looking to convert to fly ZS aircraft , you are looking at the worst time for low time pilots in many years , actually for pilots as a whole . The airlines have almost stoped hiring and as a result GA is full

However if you are looking at botswana and Namibia , the conversion process is much simpilar , especialy in Bots where quite a few Aussie pilots fly.So i would recomend Bots.

Not that there is much work there either but at least its a better piont of contact and easier to convert

Check out the Maun guide here on PPRuNe
Dude1 is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2012, 10:42
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Hi There,

I am in the process of converting my Canadian ATPL to an SA one so have an insight to the process. Apparently the process of converting a CPL is very similar.

Firstly you have to have your licence validated by the SA CAA out here. This is basically a check by the CAA to ensure that your licence isn't a forgery. A word of warning here. I submitted my paperwork in January and still don't have the number required to write the 3 exams or do the flight test. I just heard that a Kiwi submitted his/her paperwork in November and has just received the necessary go ahead paperwork. It takes time so just be prepared to wait a while. On the upside the weather in Durban is fantastic so I don't mind studying by the pool after a nice 10 km run along the sea front ;-)

You are correct in the exams you need to write and the pass mark is 75%. I'm using the Avex notes with Aeronav for the law exam.

Then the flight test which for the ATPL is a renewal of an IF flight test, not sure what it is for the CPL.

It's best to write the exams first as they are valid for 36 months whereas the flight test is only good for 30 days.

If you have more questions then feel free to ask. My pain is your gain!!

CPL
Charlie Papa Lima is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2012, 11:13
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Vancouver B.C.
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Hi,

In addition to above one has to complete the training with a flight school, you can't find a freelance instructor to complete the process with.

CPL
Charlie Papa Lima is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2012, 13:02
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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However if you are looking at botswana and Namibia , the conversion process is much simpilar , especialy in Bots where quite a few Aussie pilots fly.So i would recomend Bots.

Not that there is much work there either but at least its a better piont of contact and easier to convert

Check out the Maun guide here on PPRuNe
Oh really...and you know this for a fact do you Dude?

Swizzy If you are looking for work then neither Nam or Bots is desirable, just like SA! It is almost impossible to get a work permit as a pilot in either country. Trust me, the headache involved in getting the work permit in any of these countries is unbearable. Basically, don't waste your time in SA with anything less than ALOT of experience. Bots/Nam don't bother unless you have a good chunk of hours. Im not being negative, the truth just sucks

Either way, in Bots and Nam, if you do get work you'll be hired before you need to convert so you don't need to worry about that. Its simple anyway to convert an ICAO CPL to a Botswana CPL. It involves a simple Air Law exam and a flight test and that's it.

Don't mean to hijack the thread so moving on I cannot see the reason for wanting to convert to a South African CPL other than for recreation! Good luck anyway
CharlieVictorSierra is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2012, 16:49
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Charlie victor Sierra , what have you said that is so vastly different to what I said ! As I said there was not much work up there either , but it has often been a place where low time pilots go to get experience . I have plenty of friends who built their hours up by going up there , in these difficult times I'm sure things aren't great there either but you've got to try ! So hold on to your big girl panties.
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Old 14th Apr 2012, 20:59
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Gee wiz. Guys pretending here to be pilots , should try learning to spell first
I can just see from the postings here that there are lots of "pretenders" posting . It's all fair and well, remember you stick out like sore thumbs!
putt for dough is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2012, 05:21
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By convert do you mean validate?
If so then once you do so your SA validation will only be valid for the periods and privileges on your Australian licence.
You will need to write Ar Law and Procedures, pass mark 80% I think.
Then you'll need to do a flight test COM/iR with a Designated Flight Examiner to enable you to exercise those privileges.
The CAA website does have all the information on board but it is difficult to extract. If you're in SA, go and see them, if not in SA then contact the DFE's at Flight Training Centre/FAGC. Flight Training Acadamy/FAGG or Avex Air/FALA. The Avex notes, refined from years ago with Mr Steenberg and now supervised by a very bright chap who is also a DFE, are excellent.

If you want a South African licence in itself then unless you have a lot of experience you will almost certainly have to go the full route through medical, the exams, 75% pass, and training and flight tests. You may even have to get a student pilot licence to enable you to fly solo.
For that sort of inquiry, a clued up DFE might be able to help you but your probably best bet is to write to someone in flight operations at CAA here. You need a letter from the SA CAA setting out exactly what you must do, how many attempts you may have and wha, if any, exemptions they are prepared to make.
I think you said somewhere that you were a South African. Make sure you emphasize that point and I hope you have either an SA passport or a book of life -identity document. You need the latter before you can acquire the former anyway.

I hope the above information is more or less correct. I am a little rusty on these matters having had no need of the material for a while. I would suggest a few telephone calls to the three schools I listed whose websites are easily found on Google.

As for the doomsayers, well, I must agree that flying jobs are hard to come by here at the moment. SAA used to suck in all the stuff they wanted form the top and that left a vacuum which was gradually filled from the bottom. No one knows quite what goes on with SAA recruitment at the moment but the use of the word top in that context seems contentious.

South Africa doesn't like non citizens without work permits but you've got that covered?
Botswana has been banging on for a long time about requiring different experience levels for job entry work permits. It is an easier recruiting ground than SA but then many corpses litter the campsites at Maun unfulfilled other than in the matter of beer consumption and sometimes quite dangerous sex.
Namibia is another story which sounds similar to Botswana and in both cases a little outback experience might help. German language capability might also score you point or two in the old German West Africa.

I hope this is of some help. If you are thinking along the lines of getting some sort of SA licence to fly in this sub continent because you can't find work in Australia then I fear you may waste quite a lot of time and money.
If you already have 500hrs or even 1,000hrs, then you'll have a much better chance with the new minimum requirements that are starting to appear, both from insurance companies and from governments wishing to protect their own pilots work forces.

Lilflyboys Maun guide is excellent but perhaps since he has left it's a little less informative that it was. Competitiion for the few jobs up there can be tough so it's not to everyone's interest to encourage other qualified people to get up to Maun. Yu could have a look at the Botswana CAA site and what passes for the same information source in Namibia.

I hope there's an odd nugget of accuracy in all of this. Cheerio!

Just re read an earlier post on this thread. I thought that validating a licence and obtaining a full licence were two different things. A validation allowed you to exercsie the priviliges of your foreign licence in the country of validation for a short time only. Someone makes the point that in order to acquire a South African licence you first have to validate your non SA licence. Is this the case? I wonder if a simple student licence would serve an equally useful purpose for solo flight if you were going for the full national licence? Perhaps further clarification is available?

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 15th Apr 2012 at 05:40.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2012, 07:43
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Charlie victor Sierra , what have you said that is so vastly different to what I said ! As I said there was not much work up there either , but it has often been a place where low time pilots go to get experience . I have plenty of friends who built their hours up by going up there , in these difficult times I'm sure things aren't great there either but you've got to try ! So hold on to your big girl panties.
A little sensitive there guy!

Well, you quite obviously know as much about Botswana as you know about the English language (reading abilities included). I simply stated that although the 'conversion' process is simpler, the acquisition process of a work permit is becoming next to impossible...how do I know? Because I stood in the line at the relevant departments for almost 2 months getting my work permit! And what I do know from the time I worked there is that work permits are being rejected very frequently.

Therefore, reading back, I would say that what I posted was, in fact, VASTLY different to yours! I actually fail to see the point of your attack on me. I was simply questioning what you base your recommendation and information on, before adding some relevant information of my own, to your points.

P.S. The big girl panties chirp at the end...a real classic Hang in there mate!
CharlieVictorSierra is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2012, 16:18
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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You are right I know nothing about flying in Botswana except that most of the flying there is done by expats ,so I guess that they do give work visa's to some people but obviously not to gifted experienced aviators such as yourself.....Charlie victor Sierra
Dude1 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2012, 21:27
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None of which does very much to help poor old Swizzy Awsum who would appear to have gone to earth. Perhaps he's been terrified?
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2012, 05:53
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Actually Dude1, he was based in Francistown, Botswana, for a while flying a Baron by the rego A2-CVS.
He claims to know a lot about what is going on in Maun, when in reality he only has the general gist.

CVS, your facts are a little skewed there buddy, and if you reread what you wrote in your first post aimed at Dude1, you can see how you may have incited a less than favourable response. You do often have a holier than thou attitude towards a lot of things.

To date, there have only been a few rejections of visa's. The ones that happened last year were actually overturned and one of the guys is now flying with the company. The other left to fly for another company overseas.
I haven't heard of any of this years being rejected, but since I have left Maun, my info is a little old by the time it gets to me.
I do know that there is a bunch of people hanging around at the moment while they are waiting for waivers and permits. BUT they are still being issued, albeit slowly.
The lastest visa rejections, (Which may be actually be visas being revoked, as I thought they were on visas, not waivers) were from two expats working in office positions.

As for the Aussie, unless he is following one of those fantastic cape town girls, he would be better off sticking to Aussie, or as mentioned, head to bots and nam.
Getting the licence can be tricky and take time in SA. Getting a work permit there is even harder.
They have that lovely cycle of they will not hire you unless you have a permit, and you cannot get a permit without having an offer of work.
Lovely huh?
lilflyboy262...2 is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2012, 07:50
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You do often have a holier than thou attitude towards a lot of things.
Pot calling the kettle black there buddy

I have to agree though...apologies Dude1. Nothing malicious intended
CharlieVictorSierra is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2012, 08:04
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I'm not going to get into a personal slanging match. Read through all the posts I have made. I very rarely get into any P**** length competitions. I correct a lot of your stuff because the info is usually not quite correct and stuff that you have heard 3rd of 4th hand.
lilflyboy262...2 is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2012, 13:35
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Ah what's our purpose here on earth if not for a bit of friendly banter now and again

But seriously, good luck with your new venture mate! Jealous to say the least
CharlieVictorSierra is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2012, 13:48
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Accepted CVS , Good luck with the job hunt . Swizzy ! there you have it mate in a nut shell . As you can see the whole aviation world if a bit of a state .That been said I lost my flying job a few months ago and have been looking without much success for a job based in SA , Finally gave up and decided to broaden my prospects and go back on contract . I decided that 2 weeks ago and have had 3 job offers this week already .
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Old 18th Apr 2012, 00:19
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Contract is the way to go Dude.
You get posted to some asshole places, but the money is usually worth it and it's a hell of an experience!!!

And thanks CVS. Sorry to see the King Air there didn't work out for ya! Hope you have found something better!
lilflyboy262...2 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2012, 01:25
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Cheers everyone..

This link should be put on the CAA site for people who need to know in future ha ha!

cavortingcheetah I am South African with passport and all, the entire family is out there.

Would it then make more sense writing my ATP exams instead of just the few CPL's or do I have to write the CPL exams before moving on?

But thanks for all the info people, really helpful.
SwizzyAwsum is offline  

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