SAA asks for a R6-billion handout
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JG1, we each get one life and need to make the most of it. I personally don't give a 
where SAA gets its money or what the company does to keep operating. Your airline / company is not, as previously mentioned in a post above, saddled with political interference and biased / EE hiring policies.
While SA is a third world country being run by a bunch of thieves, one either rides the wave or gets left behind.
So next time you pass me on the apron, I'll "just smile and wave".
Here's some food for thought:
where SAA gets its money or what the company does to keep operating. Your airline / company is not, as previously mentioned in a post above, saddled with political interference and biased / EE hiring policies.While SA is a third world country being run by a bunch of thieves, one either rides the wave or gets left behind.
So next time you pass me on the apron, I'll "just smile and wave".
Here's some food for thought:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for...another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work, because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation!
2. What one person receives without working for...another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work, because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation!
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Here come a GREAT BIG WOODEN SPOON:
divinehover "..."armed response burglar alarm industry"
What a silly, sad little man. Shame old chap, where did it all go wrong for you? "
It hasn't gone wrong here, but I have been saddened to see how wrong it has gone for all the friends and family who have had to retreat behind the bars and barriers of their armed response burglar alarms there... It's actually gone very well here!!!
beechbum (and by the way, 'beech' is wood, or 'hout', not a stretch of sand!) well done with the 'Google', pity your geography's not quite up to scratch though! And we have a marvellous local pub (that serves 'Black Sheep'!) with a beautiful beer-garden; it's very pleasant walking back from it, even on a dark winter's night, without the fear of being mugged or run down on the road... and then we don't even have a closed gate when we get home and don't have to worry about disabling that 'armed response burglar alarm'!! Have fun in your 'Gangsters Paradise'!!!
Now, back to the topic: there's been a lot of talk of the problems in Greece; 'recapitalisation' and 'bail-out' are used almost as interchangealble terms. Like-wise with SAA, the 'party line' is that it is 'recapitalisation' while to the real world it is a 'bail-out'. With proper commercial airlines there has to be a proper business plan that involves planned investment, etc. Hand-outs from taxpayers is seen, in those circles, as a sign of failure and with more enlightened taxpayers a lot of questions get asked!! And there has been mention in this thread about SAA pilots getting 'bonuses'... Aren't the SA taxpayers going to be asking some searching questions about those bonuses being paid to a 'business' that is in need of such a large taxpayer-funded bail-out? I somehow doubt it. As has been said above, that is just the way it is in SA. The 'party line' always wins out against business logic and the taxpayer is loaded up even more and more with the tab. That wealth-creating taxpayer's "camel's back" is going to snap sometime and the whole house of cards will come tumbling down. Enjoy your flying at that airline that seems to be a 'money black hole' while you can, if your conscience doesn't make you worry about your burden on those taxpayers. But then the taxpayers there will probably just give in like sheep to the party line going 'bah, bah, bah' all the way!
It must be so difficult for other airlines to compete in such a 'state distorted' business environment. But then maybe it isn't so difficult if you can compete on service and win your customers that way! (I saw a report some time ago about SAA having a 77% increase in profits. It's like a comment that I heard many years ago about the HNP having a 50% increase in their votes... "If you start with 2 matches and you've now got 3, that's a 50% increase, but it still means that you've still only got 3 matches"! 77% isn't difficult if you start from a low number!!)
Those SAA crews arrested at LHR did cause quite a few humourous comments like, watching an SAA A340 taxy in: "Do you think that the crew are going straight to the hotel, or stopping at the police station on the way?"!!
Now don't try that old "you're not here so you don't know what you're talking about" bleat: it's as old and irrelevant as the ossewa!!!
divinehover "..."armed response burglar alarm industry"
What a silly, sad little man. Shame old chap, where did it all go wrong for you? "
It hasn't gone wrong here, but I have been saddened to see how wrong it has gone for all the friends and family who have had to retreat behind the bars and barriers of their armed response burglar alarms there... It's actually gone very well here!!!
beechbum (and by the way, 'beech' is wood, or 'hout', not a stretch of sand!) well done with the 'Google', pity your geography's not quite up to scratch though! And we have a marvellous local pub (that serves 'Black Sheep'!) with a beautiful beer-garden; it's very pleasant walking back from it, even on a dark winter's night, without the fear of being mugged or run down on the road... and then we don't even have a closed gate when we get home and don't have to worry about disabling that 'armed response burglar alarm'!! Have fun in your 'Gangsters Paradise'!!!
Now, back to the topic: there's been a lot of talk of the problems in Greece; 'recapitalisation' and 'bail-out' are used almost as interchangealble terms. Like-wise with SAA, the 'party line' is that it is 'recapitalisation' while to the real world it is a 'bail-out'. With proper commercial airlines there has to be a proper business plan that involves planned investment, etc. Hand-outs from taxpayers is seen, in those circles, as a sign of failure and with more enlightened taxpayers a lot of questions get asked!! And there has been mention in this thread about SAA pilots getting 'bonuses'... Aren't the SA taxpayers going to be asking some searching questions about those bonuses being paid to a 'business' that is in need of such a large taxpayer-funded bail-out? I somehow doubt it. As has been said above, that is just the way it is in SA. The 'party line' always wins out against business logic and the taxpayer is loaded up even more and more with the tab. That wealth-creating taxpayer's "camel's back" is going to snap sometime and the whole house of cards will come tumbling down. Enjoy your flying at that airline that seems to be a 'money black hole' while you can, if your conscience doesn't make you worry about your burden on those taxpayers. But then the taxpayers there will probably just give in like sheep to the party line going 'bah, bah, bah' all the way!
It must be so difficult for other airlines to compete in such a 'state distorted' business environment. But then maybe it isn't so difficult if you can compete on service and win your customers that way! (I saw a report some time ago about SAA having a 77% increase in profits. It's like a comment that I heard many years ago about the HNP having a 50% increase in their votes... "If you start with 2 matches and you've now got 3, that's a 50% increase, but it still means that you've still only got 3 matches"! 77% isn't difficult if you start from a low number!!)
Those SAA crews arrested at LHR did cause quite a few humourous comments like, watching an SAA A340 taxy in: "Do you think that the crew are going straight to the hotel, or stopping at the police station on the way?"!!
Now don't try that old "you're not here so you don't know what you're talking about" bleat: it's as old and irrelevant as the ossewa!!!
Está servira para distraerle.
Can't quite imagine who in their right minds would want to walk, or slither and slide, along a dark wintery country road in Britain? They're always either wet or icy and full of pot holes. Perhaps though, a sensible precaution if you're too drunk to drive. Down here you still can drive drunk. The place is over populated anyway and you can see off the cops with a few buffaloes. But then if I lived in Britain I'd need to be inebriated. What else would there be to spend my benefit hand outs on apart from cigars? As for things going well in that part of Europe, it's a bit like mediocrity and the parable of the burnt matches. It's not as bad as those inside the country think it could be looking at their Greek cousins but the deterioration and corruption on the inside is noticeable to those on the outside looking in.
Anyway back to the topic and away from an insignificant little socialist island to the powerhouse of Africa and its quasi benevolent dictatorship.
South Africa thinks it should have and can afford a national airline. It's the privilege of rich nations to be able to waste their money how they will. Those nations who cannot even afford a train set should just be thankful that SAA, in being as dreadful as it is from a passenger point of view, might encourage people to desert to travel on other carriers such as BA and Virgin, ghastly and strike prone as they might be, thus enriching the coffers of those whose Olympic ideas of grandeur are on the point of discovering disaster.
Anyway back to the topic and away from an insignificant little socialist island to the powerhouse of Africa and its quasi benevolent dictatorship.
South Africa thinks it should have and can afford a national airline. It's the privilege of rich nations to be able to waste their money how they will. Those nations who cannot even afford a train set should just be thankful that SAA, in being as dreadful as it is from a passenger point of view, might encourage people to desert to travel on other carriers such as BA and Virgin, ghastly and strike prone as they might be, thus enriching the coffers of those whose Olympic ideas of grandeur are on the point of discovering disaster.
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Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen!
You are sadly missing the point, and I am not even going to comment on the "we can at least drive drunk here" bit. I hope that was meant sarcastically.
Firstoff, this country's economy is growing at maybe 3% per annum, and has been known to shrink once in a while too, with various pieces of legistlation (the labour law, the new companies act, etc.) severly inhibiting the ability of the economy to grow.
We will be squeezed with higher fuel prices, fuel levies, toll roads and taxes...many of these funds embezzled by the government or spent to keep the welfare state going.
SAA will survive only as long as taxes are pumped into it. If it doesn't undergo a serious revamp with regards to management (style, ability, qualifications, amount) and staff, as well as equipment and assets and operations, it will not last forever. There is no justification on my tax money spent on this white elephant! Give me better roads, better policing, invest it in infrastructure, give me a tax break even FFS, but don't waste it on a "National Carrier"!
Sense and logic do not often prevail in this supposed "Powerhouse of Africa", that in itself being an oxymoron, just look at our GDP per Capita ($10,100) and compare it with Italy ($30,300)...we are not a powerhouse! We cannot afford these costly luxuries until this country has economic growth, and that is what this entire debate should really be about!
You are sadly missing the point, and I am not even going to comment on the "we can at least drive drunk here" bit. I hope that was meant sarcastically.
Firstoff, this country's economy is growing at maybe 3% per annum, and has been known to shrink once in a while too, with various pieces of legistlation (the labour law, the new companies act, etc.) severly inhibiting the ability of the economy to grow.
We will be squeezed with higher fuel prices, fuel levies, toll roads and taxes...many of these funds embezzled by the government or spent to keep the welfare state going.
SAA will survive only as long as taxes are pumped into it. If it doesn't undergo a serious revamp with regards to management (style, ability, qualifications, amount) and staff, as well as equipment and assets and operations, it will not last forever. There is no justification on my tax money spent on this white elephant! Give me better roads, better policing, invest it in infrastructure, give me a tax break even FFS, but don't waste it on a "National Carrier"!
Sense and logic do not often prevail in this supposed "Powerhouse of Africa", that in itself being an oxymoron, just look at our GDP per Capita ($10,100) and compare it with Italy ($30,300)...we are not a powerhouse! We cannot afford these costly luxuries until this country has economic growth, and that is what this entire debate should really be about!
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Originally Posted by jbayfan
I personally don't give a **** where SAA gets its money or what the company does to keep operating.
Originally Posted by jbayfan
Your airline / company is not, as previously mentioned in a post above, saddled with political interference and biased / EE hiring policies.
Originally Posted by jbayfan
While SA is a third world country being run by a bunch of thieves, one either rides the wave or gets left behind.
'
Originally Posted by jbayfan
Here's some food for thought:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for...another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work, because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation!
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for...another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work, because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation!
1) You don't get it: YOU'RE the poor! Stop taking OUR money!
2) Yeah - WE'VE worked for our money, stop receiving it without working properly. MY airline partially funds YOUR airline via taxation, despite being a direct competitor!
3) Again - The government has TAKEN from my airline, a wealth generator, which has to get all super-lean and efficient or DIE, to GIVE to your airline, which is all bloated and useless and on constant life support.
4) So stop dividing my companies profits FFS!
5) YOU'VE gotten the idea that you don't need to work efficiently and can earn non-market related salaries, because WE (taxpaying entities) take care of you! We slave on, despite your voracious appetite for cash that you didn't earn, which comes from us! Thanks.
I'm not sure if you intended to unload the equivalent of a 12G into each foot with your post, but you did succeed. Or, epic troll, well done. I heard a friend say once that you guys are like those government ministers who buy ultra luxury vehicles - sure, the rule book allows them to do it - but it doesn't make it any less morally reprehensible. It was a good analogy IMHO.
I always enjoy the SAA posts, they do liven the place up, thanks.
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Shrike200, my point exactly.
Look, it's not your fault that you work for SAA, and I can understand that it is a bit of an emotional sore point to be told that your (very lucrative) employer should either be sold off or shut down, but in the bigger picture it is what is best for this country: a small step in the right direction.
You don't have to like the idea at all, hence why you tell us that your training standards are so fantastic: a point I cannot contest, but sadly an irrelevant point once again. An airline doesn't become financially viable only because its crews are well trained.
Please do not attempt to defend the indefensible by referring to jealousy, lack of ambition etc. Those statements do not change the facts, which happen to be that SAA is a parastatal disaster sucking my tax money like so many other government departments, without actually giving me any service. I have to spend some more money to get that...which is kind of rich since I have paid for it already.
Look, it's not your fault that you work for SAA, and I can understand that it is a bit of an emotional sore point to be told that your (very lucrative) employer should either be sold off or shut down, but in the bigger picture it is what is best for this country: a small step in the right direction.
You don't have to like the idea at all, hence why you tell us that your training standards are so fantastic: a point I cannot contest, but sadly an irrelevant point once again. An airline doesn't become financially viable only because its crews are well trained.
Please do not attempt to defend the indefensible by referring to jealousy, lack of ambition etc. Those statements do not change the facts, which happen to be that SAA is a parastatal disaster sucking my tax money like so many other government departments, without actually giving me any service. I have to spend some more money to get that...which is kind of rich since I have paid for it already.
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There is only one sensible solution for any state owned airline.
Privatise it. Sell it off to private enterprise and let it sink or swim in the real world. If it is as good as many claim it will become a thriving business.
Any state owned business becomes an inefficient job creation scheme, in private hands it has to operate efficiently and make a profit.
Privatise it. Sell it off to private enterprise and let it sink or swim in the real world. If it is as good as many claim it will become a thriving business.
Any state owned business becomes an inefficient job creation scheme, in private hands it has to operate efficiently and make a profit.
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Originally Posted by Shrike200
Or, epic troll, well done
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cavorting... " ...to walk, or slither and slide, along a dark wintery country road in Britain?" You've obviously throughly enjoyed the beers every time you've visited, haven't you??!!! Try walking on those roads a bit less 'tiddley' next time!!
"...and full of pot holes." Too much beer again: that was the fields that you were walking through... you'd missed the roads!!
"Down here you still can drive drunk." Hmmm... that'll explain the annual slaughter rate on the roads there!!
Several of the contributors above have got it spot on: it would be much, much better for the taxpayers there if their money was spent on things that improved their lives (like fixing those many, many pot-holes, some massive road saftey and crime prevention efforts, etc., etc.) rather than pouring that money down a bottomless pit like a state-owned airline. No real airline should be state-owned. And having high training standards is irrelevant if the airline doesn't have any rational business plan: I have known of many pilots working for airlines with good training standards that have ended up out of work as their airline went bust (that doesn't mean that good training standards are incompattible with good business as those doing well in business usually have amongst the highest training standards).
And this mindless 'proudly xyz' shows a shallow thought process. If you want to be proud of something then quantify it: I spoke to a pilot a few years ago who put it perfectly, saying "I'm proud to work for AB, but not proud of AB" (jumble those letters as you feel fit!).
So come on, get a taxpayers' revolt going and get that money better spent and give the business-minded airlines there a fair chance...
"...and full of pot holes." Too much beer again: that was the fields that you were walking through... you'd missed the roads!!
"Down here you still can drive drunk." Hmmm... that'll explain the annual slaughter rate on the roads there!!
Several of the contributors above have got it spot on: it would be much, much better for the taxpayers there if their money was spent on things that improved their lives (like fixing those many, many pot-holes, some massive road saftey and crime prevention efforts, etc., etc.) rather than pouring that money down a bottomless pit like a state-owned airline. No real airline should be state-owned. And having high training standards is irrelevant if the airline doesn't have any rational business plan: I have known of many pilots working for airlines with good training standards that have ended up out of work as their airline went bust (that doesn't mean that good training standards are incompattible with good business as those doing well in business usually have amongst the highest training standards).
And this mindless 'proudly xyz' shows a shallow thought process. If you want to be proud of something then quantify it: I spoke to a pilot a few years ago who put it perfectly, saying "I'm proud to work for AB, but not proud of AB" (jumble those letters as you feel fit!).
So come on, get a taxpayers' revolt going and get that money better spent and give the business-minded airlines there a fair chance...
STAR Alliance Facts
The unfortunate history of Star Alliance subsidies
Airline Government funding
Adria Airways Lost €3.2 million in 2008 and €13.9 million in 2009, both absorbed by the Slovenian government. Sought a €50 million
capital injection in 2010, half of which has been received.
Aegean Attempted merger with Olympic Air blocked in 2011 by the European Commission due to competition concerns. Olympic
Air was the successor to Olympic Airlines, which received over €700 million in illegal state aid.
Air Canada CA$250 million loan from the government-owned Export Development Corporation in 2009, of which CAD$100 million
was from a special cabinet-controlled EDC account.
Air New Zealand NZ$885 million capital injection in 2001.
Asiana Debt of KRW3.76 trillion to state-owned Korea Development Bank was frozen in January 2010.
Austrian Airlines €500 million in state aid from the Austrian Government to cancel debts prior to September 2009 takeover by Lufthansa –
on the back of a €200 million loan from the Austrian Government.
Brussels Airlines Loan of €125 million SN Airholding (stakeholder in SN Brussels Airlines) granted from Federal Investment Company in 2002.
Croatia Airlines 195 million Croatian Kuna in state aid between 2007 and 2009.
Lufthansa €800 million German Government contribution to Lufthansa pension fund in 1995.
SAS Sought a new capital injection of SEK 4-5 billion, half of which comes from the Governments of Sweden, Norway and
Denmark - following a similar injection in 2009 from the same sources.
South African Airways ZAR1.5 billion loan from the State in 2009/10 in exchange for shares, following a ZAR 3 billion loan from the State in 2008.
Spanair €120 million in loans and capital increases from the Catalan Government in 2010/11.
Swiss US$1.5 billion state aid in 2002.
Thai Airways THB 23 billion loan from four State-owned banks in 2008/2009.
Airline Government funding
Adria Airways Lost €3.2 million in 2008 and €13.9 million in 2009, both absorbed by the Slovenian government. Sought a €50 million
capital injection in 2010, half of which has been received.
Aegean Attempted merger with Olympic Air blocked in 2011 by the European Commission due to competition concerns. Olympic
Air was the successor to Olympic Airlines, which received over €700 million in illegal state aid.
Air Canada CA$250 million loan from the government-owned Export Development Corporation in 2009, of which CAD$100 million
was from a special cabinet-controlled EDC account.
Air New Zealand NZ$885 million capital injection in 2001.
Asiana Debt of KRW3.76 trillion to state-owned Korea Development Bank was frozen in January 2010.
Austrian Airlines €500 million in state aid from the Austrian Government to cancel debts prior to September 2009 takeover by Lufthansa –
on the back of a €200 million loan from the Austrian Government.
Brussels Airlines Loan of €125 million SN Airholding (stakeholder in SN Brussels Airlines) granted from Federal Investment Company in 2002.
Croatia Airlines 195 million Croatian Kuna in state aid between 2007 and 2009.
Lufthansa €800 million German Government contribution to Lufthansa pension fund in 1995.
SAS Sought a new capital injection of SEK 4-5 billion, half of which comes from the Governments of Sweden, Norway and
Denmark - following a similar injection in 2009 from the same sources.
South African Airways ZAR1.5 billion loan from the State in 2009/10 in exchange for shares, following a ZAR 3 billion loan from the State in 2008.
Spanair €120 million in loans and capital increases from the Catalan Government in 2010/11.
Swiss US$1.5 billion state aid in 2002.
Thai Airways THB 23 billion loan from four State-owned banks in 2008/2009.
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cavorting... I missed commenting on this one: "...away from an insignificant little socialist island..."!!!
Methinks that you'll find that that "little ... island" powerhouse (with it's not insignificant aviation industry) is significantly missing from the above list (privided by 'FuelFlow') of socialist state-interference in the airline industry!! It doesn't take a degree in politics to see where the real socialism is!!!
Airlines should be cut free from state involvement and allowed to fly off into their futures on their own! And those that can't cope on their own should be left to the same fate as the dodo.
(However, please don't take this too personally as I've enjoyed many of your posts!!!)
Methinks that you'll find that that "little ... island" powerhouse (with it's not insignificant aviation industry) is significantly missing from the above list (privided by 'FuelFlow') of socialist state-interference in the airline industry!! It doesn't take a degree in politics to see where the real socialism is!!!
Airlines should be cut free from state involvement and allowed to fly off into their futures on their own! And those that can't cope on their own should be left to the same fate as the dodo.
(However, please don't take this too personally as I've enjoyed many of your posts!!!)
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National carriers
If you are a tea-man, working in the Kuruman railway siding, for the last 35 years now, you probably buy a packet of sugar or jam now and then as a " luxury". Maybe even a packet of tobacco for your pipe. Bad man, no biscuit!
Of this ill spent money, 14 % will go directly to the country's income tax coffers. So tea-man, the closest you will ever get to flying SAA is seeing their con-trail overhead. But, your bloody hard earned money is going directly to keep the Black-Hole propped up! But no doubt in your eyes this is "right"? After all, all good African countries MUST have a National Carrier! (why?)
Now 'considering' that we "need" a National Carrier, if SAA were to have ONLY it's long haul aircraft and only fly LONG haul routes(Lagos is not), then EVERYONE in SA would be happy! SAA will not be pulverising local business toes, who ARE able to fly local and regional and cater for all the demand more than sufficiently, and thereby show reasonable to good profits.
The country gets to keep and show off it's National Carrier which is crucial for world/African standing....
(the pilots at SAA get to keep their [ what word?] salaries.)
We in honoust private business are allowed to do business in a way that IS good for the country's employment issues.
But alas, the BIGGER picture.... Who gets to decide on the routes and contracts and MOST importantly, the aircraft purchased? Not the correct consultants in the relevant fields, but the venerable hallowed politicians for the "commission"!!!
I reiterate about the modern politician. The only way the French got rid of the entrenched disgusting Royal rot, was not through negotiation, but by chopping off their heads! (Same goes for the voracious big business's insatiable lust to have everything AND prevent any others from getting anything more than what they need to stay alive! See the new slavery of the 21st century)
Of this ill spent money, 14 % will go directly to the country's income tax coffers. So tea-man, the closest you will ever get to flying SAA is seeing their con-trail overhead. But, your bloody hard earned money is going directly to keep the Black-Hole propped up! But no doubt in your eyes this is "right"? After all, all good African countries MUST have a National Carrier! (why?)
Now 'considering' that we "need" a National Carrier, if SAA were to have ONLY it's long haul aircraft and only fly LONG haul routes(Lagos is not), then EVERYONE in SA would be happy! SAA will not be pulverising local business toes, who ARE able to fly local and regional and cater for all the demand more than sufficiently, and thereby show reasonable to good profits.
The country gets to keep and show off it's National Carrier which is crucial for world/African standing....
(the pilots at SAA get to keep their [ what word?] salaries.)
We in honoust private business are allowed to do business in a way that IS good for the country's employment issues.
But alas, the BIGGER picture.... Who gets to decide on the routes and contracts and MOST importantly, the aircraft purchased? Not the correct consultants in the relevant fields, but the venerable hallowed politicians for the "commission"!!!
I reiterate about the modern politician. The only way the French got rid of the entrenched disgusting Royal rot, was not through negotiation, but by chopping off their heads! (Same goes for the voracious big business's insatiable lust to have everything AND prevent any others from getting anything more than what they need to stay alive! See the new slavery of the 21st century)
I met a SAA captain late last year, whilst I was down-route in South America. Had a chat with him and his wife and they have decided enough is enough, and are leaving for ..... the UK. Interesting! Nothing in SA attracts them enough to want to stay. Just like I wasn't interested in remaining in Zimbabwe.
Africa is hell bent on turning itself in to a sewer. So be it. They can have their sewer.
Africa is hell bent on turning itself in to a sewer. So be it. They can have their sewer.
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WTF
After reading all this my deliberation is as follows :
Start a process of privatization of SAA, make all employees reapply for their jobs should they wish to take the gamble and if non profitable let them take the path of so many more deserving airlines that have seen their demise. SAA staff are only so defensive because they fear the truth, you are expensive in relation to your true value and thats no fault of your own but rather inherited so don't feel bad
Guys were tired of carrying you so don't hate us Mwah xxx
Start a process of privatization of SAA, make all employees reapply for their jobs should they wish to take the gamble and if non profitable let them take the path of so many more deserving airlines that have seen their demise. SAA staff are only so defensive because they fear the truth, you are expensive in relation to your true value and thats no fault of your own but rather inherited so don't feel bad
Guys were tired of carrying you so don't hate us Mwah xxx
Last edited by sayswho; 23rd Feb 2012 at 17:14. Reason: Spelling
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An SAA captain wanting to move to the UK... Why??!! To quote above: "Can't quite imagine who in their right minds would want to walk, or slither and slide, along a dark wintery country road in Britain? They're always either wet or icy and full of pot holes." !!!
But then, your risk of being murdered in the UK is 1.43/100,000 against 34.1/100,000 in SA (see the palindrome?); slightly more people are killed on the roads in the UK in a whole year than are killed on the roads during the summer holiday break in SA!! (Not opinions... facts.)
But more importantly, sticking to this topic, there is a very big non-state funded airline industry in the UK, showing how it can/should be done... That gives the fare-paying public a lot of good choice and good service and it gives pilots a lot of choice and (especially if they are 'regional' or 'lo-cost' pilots) better working conditions than many other parts of the world.
"Come on in... the water's nice!!!" And the beer!!
(The 'proudly South African contingent have gone rather quiet here... haven't they? All good fun!!)
But then, your risk of being murdered in the UK is 1.43/100,000 against 34.1/100,000 in SA (see the palindrome?); slightly more people are killed on the roads in the UK in a whole year than are killed on the roads during the summer holiday break in SA!! (Not opinions... facts.)
But more importantly, sticking to this topic, there is a very big non-state funded airline industry in the UK, showing how it can/should be done... That gives the fare-paying public a lot of good choice and good service and it gives pilots a lot of choice and (especially if they are 'regional' or 'lo-cost' pilots) better working conditions than many other parts of the world.
"Come on in... the water's nice!!!" And the beer!!
(The 'proudly South African contingent have gone rather quiet here... haven't they? All good fun!!)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 166
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Haven't gone quiet....just busy with my bidsheet trying to decide whether to go to Munich for some skiing, to Beijing or Hong Kong for some shopping, to Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires for some good meat or maybe just ask for some ad hoc leave so I can take my BMW 1200 down to the airport, hop in my RV7 and head down to my holiday home at the coast.
Decisions, decisions
Decisions, decisions