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Maun, Botswana. The essential guide.

African Aviation Regional issues that affect the numerous pilots who work in this area of the world.

Maun, Botswana. The essential guide.

Old 9th Jun 2015, 20:34
  #981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Maun
Age: 55
Posts: 113
@ pilot in pink...
I have no reasons to leave, but Im scared that someone else can broke my record!

Regarding the law, it is a long issue and a public forum is not the best place to discuss it, but just keep in mind, if you have less than 500hrs TT don't waste your money for a flight ticket!
abezzi is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2015, 05:19
  #982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Location, Location
Age: 31
Posts: 33
Hi abezzi,

I am of the opinion that public forums ARE the place for pilots to discuss the regulations that allow/or preclude them from accepting/applying for a potential flight position.

I have been looking for about 3 days now, typing in various key words into google like "work permit botswana pilot minimum requirements hours 500 flight time maun charter validation conversion" etc to have my question answered. The CAAB site is not user friendly. The Labour Ministry website is, but i still haven't located the document/regulation I am looking for.

As far as i've read, validation is possible at all times, conversion is only completed after 500hrs in A2 reg a/c, but still no joy on the actual piece of paper on it that says:

"If you don't have at least 500 hours TT, don't bother coming to Maun to look for a job because we won't give you a work permit. With love, The CAAB".

I would also like to ask about the apparent duality of this particular requirement. In previous posts it appears that tenacity, presistance, drive, attitude, hard work, and sticking it out in the summer heat of Maun for 3 months that wins you a job or two, not TT.

Can i assume that this has M.O. has changed entirely then? Now the CAAB/Charter operators (Mack, Wilderness, Moremi, etc) want the req TT and put attitude on the second shelf?
K.O. is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2015, 06:56
  #983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bots
Posts: 118
It is not a CAAB requirement. They have no power over permits. It is a Labour requirement.

You will not find it written anywhere. Such is the way things work in Botswana.

As far as I know... Many pilots had work permits rejected for 'insufficient hours'. After much trial, error, and heart break, a meeting was held between Labour and the operators. It was at that meeting that the operators were told "500 hours for expats".

At least one operator is actively fighting this.

While it's true that in LFB's original post he mentioned that personality is more important than hours, that was written many years ago. Things have changed. To some extent it is true- personality will make you or break you... So long as you have the minimum hours.

The other thing to be aware of, as I've mentioned before, is that many operators have a minimum hour requirement on their insurance policy. I know that Moremi Air and Major Blue Air need 500 hours TT. Safari Air is 400 from memory. Even if Labour reduced their requirement, insurance minimums are not negotiable.


All this being said, a few weeks ago Delta Air offered a job to a 350hr pilot. Permit applications take a long time, so it will be a while before we know if this guy is successful or not.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 10:28
  #984 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Location, Location
Age: 31
Posts: 33
Thanks PIP, you're the best!

That was exactly what I was looking for. Things work much the same way here in India unfortunately.

So I don't have 500TT. Would you gamble the cost of the trip and coming home jobless on getting hired?

I'm conflicted as to whether its better to put myself a couple thousand dollars further into debt on the chance that I land my first aviation job...hopefully as a pilot.

Sigh.
K.O. is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2015, 12:34
  #985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tamworth, UK / Nairobi, Kenya
Posts: 613
would you gamble...?
doh!
she did!

and it worked out.

But that's not why I'm writing...
If you are Indian, you should find out a bit about the visa situation before going, the Indian government doesn't get along too well with Botswana or Namibia, so there is a shorter limit on Indians than for other nationalities. There were a couple Indians flying in Bots, but I don't know how recent, or if they're still there. I do know that for most people you get a 3 month visa, but for Indians it's just 1 month.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 12:57
  #986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Location, Location
Age: 31
Posts: 33
Thanks a lot for your kind post DRS I was expecting a tongue lashing lol

I understand that there have been rising tensions between the two governments. Last year there were attacks in Delhi against "African Students"...I think they were Nigerian. There is a good deal of racsism towards Negros in India, which is ironic since some Indians are of the same complexion (Only a human could think up something as stupid as racism).

I'm actively researching the application process. I require a sponsor, and a letter of invitation. The documents required from the sponsor are quite intimate: Birth certs, bank docs, national identity cards, or passorts and visas etc.

At the moment, I'm trying to track down someone my family or friends know in BW to sponsor me to come over. Would a Charter company do it? I have written to a few safari camps/tour groups to ask them how they arranged visas for Indian tourists who bought a package tour. I'm sure theres some particular process that I can take advantage of. Anything you can think of if I don't find anyone?

See you in Maun! (I assume some of the regular PPRuNers on this thread are actually in Maun)
K.O. is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2015, 13:18
  #987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: italy
Age: 49
Posts: 98
Thanks to everyone for your advices. My biggest concern was: will the companies look at me and think...why this man wants to fly here with more than 3000 hs...there must be something wrong about him! all the guys flying with me in Tanzania were coming for a previous at least 2 years experience in Botswana and they were all enthusiastic about it. Let's see
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 04:50
  #988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Around
Posts: 109
They will.

also the mere mention of your hours will be considered as "pompous" by some of the local low time pilots.

You likely won't go straight into the van.

Not sure if you're a ATPL, but if your license still says CPL, I'd almost suggest leaving 2200-2500hrs off your CV. Probably would make life easier for you, though ethically not the best thing to do.


Let us know how it works out.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 07:01
  #989 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 2
Two sets of logbooks with a big chunk of hours left out of the middle of the second set while you were out of circulation for a year or two dealing with someone's estate after they'd dropped dead of an unusual tropical disease.
I'd leave your declared hours at just over 1,000. You have to be seen to fly within the reasonable boundaries of your declared experience or someone will smell a rat anyway.
As far as I know and in terms of company insurance, it's no offence to under declare your hours.

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 11th Jun 2015 at 07:33.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 08:45
  #990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 411
There was a tv series in the UK a year or two ago called ‘Bush Pilots’ about the fortunes of prospective pilots arriving in Maun. One of the pilots was a Ryanair 1st Officer with B737 rating and lots of hours who quit the airline to fly in Africa because his sister lived out there and she was very sick so he wanted to be close to her.

A lot of the companies in Maun were suspicious as to why someone would give up a decent job in an airline to come to Maun with no guarantees and they would not consider him. However he did eventually find employment, see the start of the clip below where he gets to do his check flight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuivy7a_ufU

It’s quite an interesting series (about 6 episodes) if you’re considering the move to Africa.

Good Luck
magicmick is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2015, 18:11
  #991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Maun
Age: 55
Posts: 113
In my opinion some of the companies, not all but some, have no problems to employ pilots with more than 1000hrs TT, this is because in the last 8 months a good number of pilots left Maun before the end of the 2yrs contracts, and some companies are getting tired of young pilots that do not give a xxxx of the signature they put under a contract...luckily around the world some things are moving and a good number of pilots are needed, but in Maun the companies cannot spent months to trained and to follow up with all the caab and labour department crap and after few months have the pilots says goodbye...
Regarding the 500hrs, what PIP wrote is almost right, there is by the way another issue behind it...there is now a flying school in Gabs who is busy training local pilot for the CPL...you see what I mean???
abezzi is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2015, 10:01
  #992 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: African Myths
Age: 36
Posts: 34
The real reason is Botswana is getting more tougher on its migrant laws, the old days of a freindly nation looking for for expats are over, compared to the rest of Africa it is still friendly, but you gotta make yourself look good, I guess...the government has invested in pilots, enginers etc..So the job is advertised if a local can take it (or it is a legal requirement)...but yes they will need outside pilots for some time to come.
lightning bird is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2015, 10:13
  #993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: African Myths
Age: 36
Posts: 34
Well I think about time, I think Ethopian airlines are soon going to be starting a flight to GABS, it is an underutilised airport, although a refurbished one. I remeber the days when the british airways 747 on route to joburg, used to land there, and that was discontinued..and not much else since..
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Old 13th Jun 2015, 10:31
  #994 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 2
Excitement?
Only the odd manic local guy crashing up the entire Air Bots fleet after failing to destroy the presidential palace.
Still, perhaps that was the consequence of a plot initiated by the national airline some years before which had successfully demanded the introduction of local guys, both black and white, into the left hand seat, regardless of time on type, rating or experience.
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Old 13th Jun 2015, 11:11
  #995 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: African Myths
Age: 36
Posts: 34
Im sure some guys must remember whenthe RAF used to come down to Maun, in their Hercules, to train the BDF, Botswana Defence Force, I was allowed into the cockpit but dont touch!
lightning bird is offline  
Old 14th Jun 2015, 08:20
  #996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: African Myths
Age: 36
Posts: 34
Yes the Air botswana incedent, they found HIV in the pilots blood, and Air Botswana admitted that was the reason for grounding him, dont quite know the acceptaple levels, but he was not a happy chap after that.
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 10:14
  #997 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 2
The nights at the Pamodzi in Lusaka with the very early morning booking calls from reception for the cabin crews might have had something to do with it all.
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 12:57
  #998 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: African Myths
Age: 36
Posts: 34
Have they finished the new runway at Maun yet, it has been a few years now of some grumpy men looking for some shade underneath their bulldozers!!
lightning bird is offline  
Old 14th Jun 2015, 15:36
  #999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: African Myths
Age: 36
Posts: 34
I was actually with one of the training local pilots a couple of ears ago, he had his own cessna 172 which he flew in from Gauteng, sponsored by the government. We had the unpleasant meeting as it turned out to be because his mother used to work for my parents. He admitted he was up until 3am drinking, and the smell of alcohol was very real, but he took me around the delta and got me down safely...
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 01:53
  #1000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 630
Hehe PiP, so then it is on personality

James~ I'm sorry buddy, you don't know what you are talking about. If an older guy with a few thousand hours is looking at coming to Maun then it is generally a lifestyle choice.
Most companies would welcome him aboard if he fits the mold as they generally aren't in a hurry to leave to the big shiny jet.


I don't know why you keep arguing that you were well liked when people who are in country that knew you, or knew of you, are telling you that you don't know jack.
You have had your time in Africa. It wasn't for you.
I suggest that if you don't have any constructive advice to give in helping people get that elusive first job, that you then leave this forum.

@Magicmick, I wouldn't put too much faith in what Sue Smart had to say on a TV show, or the wilderness lady... memory failing me... Penelope?
A lot of that was for the cameras.

Last edited by lilflyboy262...2; 17th Jun 2015 at 00:23.
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