Airline Jock's flying Charter!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Republic
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately I am the only one here to defend the intentions of a few.
I have given it some thought and the few examples of the other guys, I thought of, who do it simply for financial gain. Sadly each one works for the best paying airline. Also it is only these guys that have enough time off to make it regular. And these same guys don't help others move forward. So yes there is a point.
Personally I do very little charter flying and mostly instruction, but it is not the 30-40hrs of ground school that people see, only the 1 hour of flying.
So perhaps confront the individual personally, rather than an entire industry. It's not all rotten.
I have given it some thought and the few examples of the other guys, I thought of, who do it simply for financial gain. Sadly each one works for the best paying airline. Also it is only these guys that have enough time off to make it regular. And these same guys don't help others move forward. So yes there is a point.
Personally I do very little charter flying and mostly instruction, but it is not the 30-40hrs of ground school that people see, only the 1 hour of flying.
So perhaps confront the individual personally, rather than an entire industry. It's not all rotten.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a perfectly acceptable practice. Signing up to fly for an airline never did (and never will) deny a man his right to fly what, why, where, when, who, and how he likes. If you don't like it, take up knitting.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: #37 for Start
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Signing up to fly for an airline never did (and never will) deny a man his right to fly what, why, where, when, who, and how he likes. If you don't like it, take up knitting.
It's a tough old World out there...
Guest
Posts: n/a
126.9:
It is NOT an acceptable practice.
Obviously you were never a struggling newbie?? I can see how if you had everything handed to you on a silver spoon, you might find no moral wrong in the practice, but please remember, not everyone had, or has the same start you appear to have. (Plain or Pearl??)
Q4nvs: The REAL Springboks contract does not prohibit, unlike the other ones, working elsewhere. (Apples with apples...)
It is NOT an acceptable practice.
Obviously you were never a struggling newbie?? I can see how if you had everything handed to you on a silver spoon, you might find no moral wrong in the practice, but please remember, not everyone had, or has the same start you appear to have. (Plain or Pearl??)Q4nvs: The REAL Springboks contract does not prohibit, unlike the other ones, working elsewhere. (Apples with apples...)
Está servira para distraerle.
Actually it's called 'moonlighting' and in the school of hard knocks, that's exactly what you used to get for poaching another man's livelihood when your own was quite secure.
(Signing up to fly for an airline never did (and never will) deny a man his right to fly what, why, where, when, who, and how he likes. If you don't like it, take up knitting.)
And might the same philosophy sir, be applied to one's wife?
(Signing up to fly for an airline never did (and never will) deny a man his right to fly what, why, where, when, who, and how he likes. If you don't like it, take up knitting.)
And might the same philosophy sir, be applied to one's wife?
Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 5th Jul 2010 at 07:13.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps some ‘repetitive route flying’ pilots haven’t kept up with general aviation in SA . There seems to be a belief that they ‘come back’ to fly the smaller aircraft and help the 'learners' to become better pilots.
These days general aviation includes smaller ‘ airline type’ airplanes such as BAE 146’s, 737’s, F28’s ATR72’s EMB120’s, the list goes on. The crew for these aircraft get the same training and frequency of training as any airline, it’s a legal requirement to do so. Long story short, there are plenty well trained pilots around the GA airports who can share knowledge with the lower time pilots.
What we should be asking ourselves is how the hell did some of you guys get into the airlines in the first place if the standards are so high there. They clearly aren’t! I thought after nearly killing themselves in the Historic Dak a few years back, whilst giving back to GA I presume, you airline pilots would have realized that perhaps the real flying should be left to the GA aviators. Learn to taxi your aircraft before teaching others how to fly theirs. Get the book 'Airbus Taxiing 101 at Cape Town' it may help.
These days general aviation includes smaller ‘ airline type’ airplanes such as BAE 146’s, 737’s, F28’s ATR72’s EMB120’s, the list goes on. The crew for these aircraft get the same training and frequency of training as any airline, it’s a legal requirement to do so. Long story short, there are plenty well trained pilots around the GA airports who can share knowledge with the lower time pilots.
What we should be asking ourselves is how the hell did some of you guys get into the airlines in the first place if the standards are so high there. They clearly aren’t! I thought after nearly killing themselves in the Historic Dak a few years back, whilst giving back to GA I presume, you airline pilots would have realized that perhaps the real flying should be left to the GA aviators. Learn to taxi your aircraft before teaching others how to fly theirs. Get the book 'Airbus Taxiing 101 at Cape Town' it may help.
Last edited by oompilot; 4th Jul 2010 at 19:26.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: #37 for Start
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Q4nvs: The REAL Springboks contract does not prohibit, unlike the other ones, working elsewhere. (Apples with apples...)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Never a Struggling Newbie
Sir Osis
Grew up in Saunders House Boys' Home in Durban. Saved my (so called) danger pay for two years and worked another five years as a miner at Harmony Gold Mine to pay for my flying. Freelanced outa Lanseria in the eighties and early nineties. My logbook reflects as many as three months between flights in the hard days. Competed with many SAA, Comair, and other more experienced freelancers. I'm still mates with most of them. Marie Dry gave me my first full-time job at Inter Air after I'd walked the airport for more than three years. Later came the airlines.
I don't begrudge anyone the right to work. But it is a free market out there. Get used to it.
---
carvortingcheetah and coward
Read your PM pal. Your cowardly comment about my wife is coming back to kick you in the a55!
Grew up in Saunders House Boys' Home in Durban. Saved my (so called) danger pay for two years and worked another five years as a miner at Harmony Gold Mine to pay for my flying. Freelanced outa Lanseria in the eighties and early nineties. My logbook reflects as many as three months between flights in the hard days. Competed with many SAA, Comair, and other more experienced freelancers. I'm still mates with most of them. Marie Dry gave me my first full-time job at Inter Air after I'd walked the airport for more than three years. Later came the airlines.
I don't begrudge anyone the right to work. But it is a free market out there. Get used to it.
---
carvortingcheetah and coward
Read your PM pal. Your cowardly comment about my wife is coming back to kick you in the a55!
Está servira para distraerle.
126.9
Since you seem to have taken grave offence at nothing more than my extension of your own philosophy, I have altered my original post to remove any connotation from which I hope you could reasonably imply a personal connection.
I sincerely trust that this will mollify your outraged outburst which I found surprising considering the arrogant and self centered nature of your previous words directed towards those less fortunate than yourself. I do not normally pay much attention to threatening e mails or private messages however, in the interests of the prevention of aviation terrorism, I have made a note of your name, which you so kindly provided. I think that all threats to aviation personnel should be taken seriously and acted upon, don't you?
Since you seem to have taken grave offence at nothing more than my extension of your own philosophy, I have altered my original post to remove any connotation from which I hope you could reasonably imply a personal connection.
I sincerely trust that this will mollify your outraged outburst which I found surprising considering the arrogant and self centered nature of your previous words directed towards those less fortunate than yourself. I do not normally pay much attention to threatening e mails or private messages however, in the interests of the prevention of aviation terrorism, I have made a note of your name, which you so kindly provided. I think that all threats to aviation personnel should be taken seriously and acted upon, don't you?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're quite right they should be taken seriously and acted upon. And don't you forget it. 1500 posts leaves a trail better than a birth certificate. Posts regarding recent illnesses ... PPRuNe outages in Germany ... and that pseudonym ... (cuts it down already) ... I read on ...!
As for the attempt to misconstrue your libelous statement as implication of connotation: the original content was false, malicious, and defamatory. Feel free to have your attorneys contact me. I'll provide a copy of the original page and my address and telephone numbers via PM upon your request.
As for the attempt to misconstrue your libelous statement as implication of connotation: the original content was false, malicious, and defamatory. Feel free to have your attorneys contact me. I'll provide a copy of the original page and my address and telephone numbers via PM upon your request.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SA
Age: 49
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a Load of crap Oompilot! General aviation should be pretty routine flying too! Heard of SOP's? And Jtrain, the guy who scribbled the CV580 was washed from the airline.
Está servira para distraerle.
126.9
I seem to have provoked you, unwittingly, into a major sense of humour failure. Since you are apparently intent upon a litigious course of action I'll say little further at this stage other than to point out that no comment was made about your's or any one else's wife. Whether a rhetorical question in the context can be defamatory or libelous in law probably lies outside the scope of this thread. I rather suspect though it is your words and your threats, both in public and in private, that have been malicious. However, in the interests of harmony and to assuage your fury, I offer you my apology if my question has been taken out of its intended philosophical context and caused offense.
I seem to have provoked you, unwittingly, into a major sense of humour failure. Since you are apparently intent upon a litigious course of action I'll say little further at this stage other than to point out that no comment was made about your's or any one else's wife. Whether a rhetorical question in the context can be defamatory or libelous in law probably lies outside the scope of this thread. I rather suspect though it is your words and your threats, both in public and in private, that have been malicious. However, in the interests of harmony and to assuage your fury, I offer you my apology if my question has been taken out of its intended philosophical context and caused offense.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ironic that this thread was about dodgy moonlighting airline pilots and now they are irate and worried about their wives fidelity. This is simply solved, stop moonlighting. This seems to be a sore point with you guys so perhaps that is reason enough to stay at home between trips.
Guest
Posts: n/a
While we busy with the lawyers.....
Seen as 126.9 seems so keen to have his lawers get involved, maybe we could ask them about the legality of moonlighting? (Just not sure if any other members of his family were also moonlighting?)
Seriously boys, this is a rumour forum. If you want to post anonymously, expect a few swipes at your personality.
If you want to moonlight and take work away from someone else, and BOAST about it, expect to get shot down in flames......
Safe flying,
Sir O
Seriously boys, this is a rumour forum. If you want to post anonymously, expect a few swipes at your personality.
If you want to moonlight and take work away from someone else, and BOAST about it, expect to get shot down in flames......
Safe flying,
Sir O
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Kinshasa DRC
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Simple Solution To Moonlighting.....
For Charter flights as mentioned in the original post.......
I have a interesting proposition - (have used it myself - Sorry RSA)
Have your company not only give you permission to perform the flight making them take into account your flight and duty time requirements - but have them bill the company requesting the flight with any money going back into your company to ensure you are in fact doing the flight due to your "Passion for Aviation"
I remember when a "Moonlighter" I know missed his flight and delayed his airlines departure due to a technical problem with his "Moonbuggy"
I have a interesting proposition - (have used it myself - Sorry RSA)
Have your company not only give you permission to perform the flight making them take into account your flight and duty time requirements - but have them bill the company requesting the flight with any money going back into your company to ensure you are in fact doing the flight due to your "Passion for Aviation"
I remember when a "Moonlighter" I know missed his flight and delayed his airlines departure due to a technical problem with his "Moonbuggy"
Está servira para distraerle.
I wonder, in the usual idle sort of way, what has happened to the original poster whom I at one stage wondered was a troll? Perhaps he would care to enter the debate he started as it rages to and fro?
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HAHAHEHE LAND
Age: 63
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
126.9
This is a thread about South African Airline Pilots doing charter.
Does 126.9 not live in Europe.
What would all thee airline pilots say about us GA guys walking in and asking to fly in their airlines. There are some who used to fly in the airlines before they saw the light. MMMMMMMMMM
They are the first to scream about someone getting pushed in front of them on the Seniority List.
I will certainly do my best and have been trying for years to stop this practice but SOME and not all Arline guys think they are gods gift to aviation. I repeat this view only stands for those airline pilots that do charter and not for those that do instruction and are DE's.
Fly Safe guys and gals
Does 126.9 not live in Europe.
What would all thee airline pilots say about us GA guys walking in and asking to fly in their airlines. There are some who used to fly in the airlines before they saw the light. MMMMMMMMMM
They are the first to scream about someone getting pushed in front of them on the Seniority List.
I will certainly do my best and have been trying for years to stop this practice but SOME and not all Arline guys think they are gods gift to aviation. I repeat this view only stands for those airline pilots that do charter and not for those that do instruction and are DE's.
Fly Safe guys and gals
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: through the door, left
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taking the risk of being pulled to pieces, but why do the GA guys feel, that "airline pilots" are not allowed to fly GA charters? Aren't they 'simply' pilots too?
Now, as to the aspect of an airline pilot earning a great salary and hence shouldn't be flying charters:
Is there a certain income limit amongst the SA pilot community, after which it is downright obscene to continue taking on work? Aren't there pilots employed by GA charter companies, also doing freelance work on the side, if they can?
What about those freelance pilots, that are flying regularly for rather good rates, is it ok for them to not share their flights with guys, that are not being called out that much?
How about pilots doing contract work? They quite often earn more than some of the airliners and still do freelance work in their time off at home. Is that ok? I know for a fact, that some A340 Captains earn less, than what contract pilots flying jets do.
Is there some kind of fine line, that a pilot crosses over, once employed by an airline?
I have come across a number of GA charter pilots who think the sun shines out of their bottom holes, being the divine's gift to aviation.
I know how it feels, if one sits at home and just waits for the telephone to ring. But if freelance pilots sit around, not flying enough, isn't that an indication of there being too many freelancers? What about people, who have had a no-fly job and now pour into the rather saturated market. Are they frowned upon?
What about the more experienced GA pilots, those flying 1900 or jets. Is it ok for them to do a flight on a piston single or light twin? Don't they take work away from the lesser experienced, lesser qualified pilots, who need the hours more and the money too?
Sure, many airline employment contracts state, that you are not allowed to take on work outside that specific company. Or they state, you are only allowed to fly 2 different types. But isn't that an issue between the airline and that pilot? Do you guys really feel called upon to play policemen? Do you open a case against everyone who overtakes you while you stick to the speed limit? Or jumps a red robot you stop at?
I think some people should rather ask themself, why they not get enough work. Why is it, that the charter queens call the "airline pilots" instead of you, who has been sitting around. Those freelancers I have met, who were not doing well, had contributed to their misery. Either by never being available over weekends, or by having a bad attitude towards the pax (I'm a pilot, not a porter) or even by rocking up noticeably hung over. Please take that into consideration too.
Now, as to the aspect of an airline pilot earning a great salary and hence shouldn't be flying charters:
Is there a certain income limit amongst the SA pilot community, after which it is downright obscene to continue taking on work? Aren't there pilots employed by GA charter companies, also doing freelance work on the side, if they can?
What about those freelance pilots, that are flying regularly for rather good rates, is it ok for them to not share their flights with guys, that are not being called out that much?
How about pilots doing contract work? They quite often earn more than some of the airliners and still do freelance work in their time off at home. Is that ok? I know for a fact, that some A340 Captains earn less, than what contract pilots flying jets do.
Is there some kind of fine line, that a pilot crosses over, once employed by an airline?
I have come across a number of GA charter pilots who think the sun shines out of their bottom holes, being the divine's gift to aviation.
I know how it feels, if one sits at home and just waits for the telephone to ring. But if freelance pilots sit around, not flying enough, isn't that an indication of there being too many freelancers? What about people, who have had a no-fly job and now pour into the rather saturated market. Are they frowned upon?
What about the more experienced GA pilots, those flying 1900 or jets. Is it ok for them to do a flight on a piston single or light twin? Don't they take work away from the lesser experienced, lesser qualified pilots, who need the hours more and the money too?
Sure, many airline employment contracts state, that you are not allowed to take on work outside that specific company. Or they state, you are only allowed to fly 2 different types. But isn't that an issue between the airline and that pilot? Do you guys really feel called upon to play policemen? Do you open a case against everyone who overtakes you while you stick to the speed limit? Or jumps a red robot you stop at?
I think some people should rather ask themself, why they not get enough work. Why is it, that the charter queens call the "airline pilots" instead of you, who has been sitting around. Those freelancers I have met, who were not doing well, had contributed to their misery. Either by never being available over weekends, or by having a bad attitude towards the pax (I'm a pilot, not a porter) or even by rocking up noticeably hung over. Please take that into consideration too.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Africa
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CJ750
You seem like a balanced fellow with a chip on both shoulders, hiding in anonymity and naming names on a public forum.
"I repeat this view only stands for those airline pilots that do charter and not for those that do instruction and are DE's. "
....now that really makes sense, is an airline guy instructing or doing DE work not taking work away from his GA bretheren? Are you the judge as to who can fly what and when?
Worry about your own life and dont get too bitter if the sun shines on somebody else.
"I repeat this view only stands for those airline pilots that do charter and not for those that do instruction and are DE's. "
....now that really makes sense, is an airline guy instructing or doing DE work not taking work away from his GA bretheren? Are you the judge as to who can fly what and when?
Worry about your own life and dont get too bitter if the sun shines on somebody else.