Airline Jock's flying Charter!
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Such is life - get over it
We all like flying and we all like money.
Charter provides both and when it is on offer, the first person who gets a bite at the cherry is going to take it - be it the Airline pilot, contract pilot on his month break, freelancing corporate pilot or GA pilot.
This is life and human nature so instead of slagging off those who do take the cherry, bide your time and the cherry will be yours one day.
PS: I never do freelance work as I am personally not interested, not because I fear stealing breadcrumbs from others.
Charter provides both and when it is on offer, the first person who gets a bite at the cherry is going to take it - be it the Airline pilot, contract pilot on his month break, freelancing corporate pilot or GA pilot.
This is life and human nature so instead of slagging off those who do take the cherry, bide your time and the cherry will be yours one day.
PS: I never do freelance work as I am personally not interested, not because I fear stealing breadcrumbs from others.
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Morals?
So, none of you Airline guys flying charter have morals. Your beloved Union asks of you to respect others, but hey, leave that to other guys. I bet the moment you drop yourself in it, you will go running to the Union, claiming assistance?? Hippocrits (Probably doesn't apply to 126'9 as he does not fly in SA anyway.)
Wiele, having also done the darkest Africa thing for many years, I am sure we crossed paths. Shouldn't we leave the charters to the newbies so that they don't have to go away for months at a time to earn a living while their families sit at home alone?
Anyway, I am only trying to stick-up for the younger pilots. It does not affect me anymore, but still ticks me off.
Safe flying,
Sir O
Wiele, having also done the darkest Africa thing for many years, I am sure we crossed paths. Shouldn't we leave the charters to the newbies so that they don't have to go away for months at a time to earn a living while their families sit at home alone?
Anyway, I am only trying to stick-up for the younger pilots. It does not affect me anymore, but still ticks me off.
Safe flying,
Sir O
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Mr.Pirate looong time mate any action there in the elbowroom
I am no airline boy don't want to be, never will be, and i have the utmost respect for the boys moving the world. But have come across these boys running around stealing our breadcrumbs as it was so put.
Never fear O low life ones, work your tosh off, and when the thieving occurs grit your teeth, get yourself into a position, that one day when it happens, and trust me it has happened, when the airline boy/ girl comes groveling at your door for work, you can turn around and hire the low life charter slug who was struggling for a break.
Was the best day of my life as this particular sole, stole work off me by punting his life story as a airline pilot, not because I had more time in type and flown the aircraft way longer and further than he ever did.
I still respect you guys though, it must be really hard to fly to Cape town three times a week.
Wow never knew how resentful I really felt, thanks guys I feel so much better
I am no airline boy don't want to be, never will be, and i have the utmost respect for the boys moving the world. But have come across these boys running around stealing our breadcrumbs as it was so put.
Never fear O low life ones, work your tosh off, and when the thieving occurs grit your teeth, get yourself into a position, that one day when it happens, and trust me it has happened, when the airline boy/ girl comes groveling at your door for work, you can turn around and hire the low life charter slug who was struggling for a break.
Was the best day of my life as this particular sole, stole work off me by punting his life story as a airline pilot, not because I had more time in type and flown the aircraft way longer and further than he ever did.
I still respect you guys though, it must be really hard to fly to Cape town three times a week.
Wow never knew how resentful I really felt, thanks guys I feel so much better
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Africa
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So long as no laws are being broken this practice will never stop. If any pilot doesn’t conform to the required regulations then report it to CAA. If you wish to remain anonymous then use the CAHRS initiative created for you by CAA and publish the outcomes here, minus names of course.
I agree that if no law is broken then let any pilot fly. Some things to remember,
“(3) The provisions of this subpart shall apply in respect of full-time and part-time employed flight crew members.”
a flight deck crew member completes the operator’s type conversion
course before commencing unsupervised operational flying –
(i) when changing to an aeroplane for which a new type or class
rating is required; or
(ii) when employed by such operator.
5) When a flight crew member has not previously completed the opera-
tors’ type conversion course, such operator shall ensure that, in additional to
subregulation (4), the flight crew members undergoes general first aid training
and, if applicable, ditching procedures training using the appropriate equipment
in water.
The operator of a small commercial air transport aeroplane to be oper-
ated by a single pilot in terms of Regulations 135.02.6 shall ensure that the
additional crew training is provided, as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-
OPS 135.
each flight deck crew member undergoes recurrent training and
checking and that all such training and checking is relevant to the type
or variant of aeroplane on which the flight deck crew member is li-
censed to operate;
when multi-crew operations are contemplated, each flight deck crew
member undergoes operator proficiency checks every six calendar
months as part of a normal flight deck crew complement.
Upon successful completion of the operator proficiency check referred
to in subregulation (1)(e), the operator shall issue a certificate of competency to
the flight deck crew member concerned, which certificate shall be valid for a
period of six calendar months calculated from the last day of the calendar month
in which such certificate is issued.
The operator shall ensure that, in the case of an operational check, each
flight deck crew member undergoes the operational check on the aeroplane to
demonstrate his or her competence in carrying out normal operations specified
in the operations manual referred to in Regulation 135.04.2.
If these laws are broken then report the pilot and operator to CAA via the CAHRS system, stop moaning, do something.
I agree that if no law is broken then let any pilot fly. Some things to remember,
“(3) The provisions of this subpart shall apply in respect of full-time and part-time employed flight crew members.”
a flight deck crew member completes the operator’s type conversion
course before commencing unsupervised operational flying –
(i) when changing to an aeroplane for which a new type or class
rating is required; or
(ii) when employed by such operator.
5) When a flight crew member has not previously completed the opera-
tors’ type conversion course, such operator shall ensure that, in additional to
subregulation (4), the flight crew members undergoes general first aid training
and, if applicable, ditching procedures training using the appropriate equipment
in water.
The operator of a small commercial air transport aeroplane to be oper-
ated by a single pilot in terms of Regulations 135.02.6 shall ensure that the
additional crew training is provided, as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-
OPS 135.
each flight deck crew member undergoes recurrent training and
checking and that all such training and checking is relevant to the type
or variant of aeroplane on which the flight deck crew member is li-
censed to operate;
when multi-crew operations are contemplated, each flight deck crew
member undergoes operator proficiency checks every six calendar
months as part of a normal flight deck crew complement.
Upon successful completion of the operator proficiency check referred
to in subregulation (1)(e), the operator shall issue a certificate of competency to
the flight deck crew member concerned, which certificate shall be valid for a
period of six calendar months calculated from the last day of the calendar month
in which such certificate is issued.
The operator shall ensure that, in the case of an operational check, each
flight deck crew member undergoes the operational check on the aeroplane to
demonstrate his or her competence in carrying out normal operations specified
in the operations manual referred to in Regulation 135.04.2.
If these laws are broken then report the pilot and operator to CAA via the CAHRS system, stop moaning, do something.
Join Date: May 2010
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I’ve always had a suspicion that pilots (in general, there have been some exceptions that I have witnessed) did not work hard enough, and now a whole thread highlighting that…
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Reading through the entire thread one would get the impression that every airline pilot flies charter. Besides I personally know of less than five that operate in and around Lanseria (IF) they get a chance.
Secondly as the last post refers (and F2000) each type we operate we require a proficiency check. That cost is not borne by our respective airlines. As I mentioned in a previous post, it takes a lot of effort to remain current and proficient (in the legal sense).
Further more most operator's will use their dedicated crew and "full time freelance crew" long before they use an Airline Pilot. The airline crew are simply not available as much. We only get called for flights occasionally. Usually when I get phoned, the call ends with a "do you know any body else who may be rated?". The airline pilot's are not cheaper, they are often more fickle and harder to get on a night stop - so why are they being called? Perhaps it is because they are a last resort.
When I was a charter pilot I flew with many airline pilot's. I enjoyed those experiences and in fact both my subsequent airline jobs were helped on by those very guys. I understand some of you are not aspiring to airlines but there are things to be learned from those individuals, who come from a different operating environment than yourself.
So if you are really feeling hard done by, cheated by a minority, and looking for someone else to blame for your woes
- head off to your nearest township and see how a Xenophobic rampage is really carried out
!
Secondly as the last post refers (and F2000) each type we operate we require a proficiency check. That cost is not borne by our respective airlines. As I mentioned in a previous post, it takes a lot of effort to remain current and proficient (in the legal sense).
Further more most operator's will use their dedicated crew and "full time freelance crew" long before they use an Airline Pilot. The airline crew are simply not available as much. We only get called for flights occasionally. Usually when I get phoned, the call ends with a "do you know any body else who may be rated?". The airline pilot's are not cheaper, they are often more fickle and harder to get on a night stop - so why are they being called? Perhaps it is because they are a last resort.
When I was a charter pilot I flew with many airline pilot's. I enjoyed those experiences and in fact both my subsequent airline jobs were helped on by those very guys. I understand some of you are not aspiring to airlines but there are things to be learned from those individuals, who come from a different operating environment than yourself.
So if you are really feeling hard done by, cheated by a minority, and looking for someone else to blame for your woes
- head off to your nearest township and see how a Xenophobic rampage is really carried out!
Join Date: Apr 2007
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If these laws are broken then report the pilot and operator to CAA via the CAHRS system, stop moaning, do something.
You make it sound, as if the majority of "airline pilots" cuts corners when it comes to flying GA charters, which of course wouldn't be right, I agree.
But unfortunately I do know a lot of GA long term freelance pilots doesn't stick to all of those rules. So, whom exactly are you trying to catch out? Shall we then start reporting all those GA pilots, who dare flying around without having done the necessary F/A course?
I guess in the end that might just lead to more GA flights being done by the so called airline pilots, because a lot of the GA pilots might just be grounded, busy trying to wait list them self for the next available F/A course...
Good luck policing then!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Africa
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No Dafly it would lead to companies employing pilots full time as they will want to protect there 'investment' in what is now a legal GA pilot. In other words it will create more GA jobs and solve many problems.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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If memory serves me correctly there was an outfit in Cape Town that ONLY used SAA pilots. SAA pilots know lots of other SAA pilots so they had a massive pool of pilots and looked after each other (at the expense of non airline pilots).
If I bought a Rolls Royce Phantom (US$500 000) and could choose between a driver that has done all the Industry Training (Advanced Driving Course etc), or one that does Valet Parking at the City Lodge (no disrespect intended) - SURELY that remains My Decision.
If the skilled and experienced driver(s) are available if/when I need them, at a rate which I am comfortable with, then that is Logic.
Who has never asked their "Garden Engineer" if he can Paint - are you not putting struggling Painters out of work then?
It's a Free Market - Adapt and you just might find yourself at the proverbial Top-of-the-Pile
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I have a full time flying job but still do freelance on the side, here's the thing though, If I am going to work during my time off it has to be worth my while, so basically I don't get out of bed for less than 3500 ZAR per day.
I know for sure that at these rates, I am the last person that the charter queens will phone when they need a pilot and that they will use anyone else rather than me,(and they still phone me often) hence I don't believe that I am taking any work away from anyone.
Your thanks for this magnanimous gesture on my behalf is accepted in advance.
I know for sure that at these rates, I am the last person that the charter queens will phone when they need a pilot and that they will use anyone else rather than me,(and they still phone me often) hence I don't believe that I am taking any work away from anyone.
Your thanks for this magnanimous gesture on my behalf is accepted in advance.
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If SACAA continues to adapt towards JAA principles it may become legally impossible to priviledge more than 2 type ratings professionally at a given time or a maximum of 3 for TRI/TRE purposes in the near future.
Actually a good system in my view in terms of safety and might open doors for new people to get jobs, to move up and be forced to receive good training and then to concentrate on a maximum of two types.
This will force all those guys with numerous ratings to make a choice, which ones they want to keep and employ. So the possiblilty to fly charter on one other type still remains but anything further would become impossible. That would already help a lot and would also be good for the industry as well as the job market. Not for the individual freelancer though...
Actually a good system in my view in terms of safety and might open doors for new people to get jobs, to move up and be forced to receive good training and then to concentrate on a maximum of two types.
This will force all those guys with numerous ratings to make a choice, which ones they want to keep and employ. So the possiblilty to fly charter on one other type still remains but anything further would become impossible. That would already help a lot and would also be good for the industry as well as the job market. Not for the individual freelancer though...
Join Date: Oct 2004
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You are making the typical, arrogant assumption that you are better trained than the GA pilot and it's that very arrogance that will prevent you from "getting it".
My point was that nobody can predicate to the owner of an expensive piece of equipment, whom he/she may or may not use to Drive (or Fly) it.
Hence my Example...
I don't fly Freelance (even on my Off Days), so frankly don't care...
Join Date: May 2006
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Proppilot, in my view, restricting guys to 2 com aircraft at a time screws the guys even more. What if you decide on the BE20 and PC12 for example, and those pools dry up for a few weeks and you are HS125/B190/C208/DHC6/8 rated and a charter comes up but you cant fly it because though you are current, you can only fly the 200 or 12. This means that the more experience you gain on various types counts for **** and you have to go home and tell your wife and kids they cant eat because CAA wont let you work????
I have no inclination to go airline and dont do charter because I do more than enough flying on cantract to keep me happy and I rather enjoy my time off but, I do enjoy flying different aircraft as and when I can and it puts food on the table. Taking the choice of that away from the large number of crew out there who choose and enjoy flying different aircraft, in my view, will make flying rather dull and unexciting, not to mention that it would be unfair labour practice according to our constitution. provided you are current and tick all the boxes, fly as many aircraft as you want! I could thing of nothing more boring than staring at the same EFIS screen at 38 000 ft for the next 30 years of my life, but thats my choice and many others out there, take that away and we move back into being a dictatorship.
Dog
I have no inclination to go airline and dont do charter because I do more than enough flying on cantract to keep me happy and I rather enjoy my time off but, I do enjoy flying different aircraft as and when I can and it puts food on the table. Taking the choice of that away from the large number of crew out there who choose and enjoy flying different aircraft, in my view, will make flying rather dull and unexciting, not to mention that it would be unfair labour practice according to our constitution. provided you are current and tick all the boxes, fly as many aircraft as you want! I could thing of nothing more boring than staring at the same EFIS screen at 38 000 ft for the next 30 years of my life, but thats my choice and many others out there, take that away and we move back into being a dictatorship.
Dog
