SAA posts profit and orders A330's
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Don't let the fact that SAA didn't accept you ruin your whole life. It's just not worth.
Sorry, but you took the bait and walked straight into that one.
Don't bother replying to the anti-SAA trolls.
If SAA was a real profit making business, it would be bigger, better and stronger than it is now. Why is pro free enterprise seen as being anti-SAA?
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I can see Cheryl Carolus doing a great job. She has the same qualifications as a lot of prominent people in SA these days.
Good luck to her. Good luck to the airline.
On returning to South Africa she was arrested in January 1986 and detained at John Vorster Square for three weeks under emergency regulations.;
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Avi8tor - me thinks the desert may be getting to you. Don’t concern yourself too much with what’s happening down south. You made the decision to leave now live with it. I doubt very much that you contribute a whole lot to South Africa's revenue. Whether you like it or not, SAA plays an integral role in South Africa's economy. Sure there's problems and we are a work in progress, but when we start showing a turn around, rather withhold your negative 2 cents worth. One would think you have enough on your own plate to worry about…
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(and we are a work in progress,) How long will that take. Come on, the fish stinks from the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SAA is a National Airline. Not suppose to show a profit. That why they belong to the Government (ANC)
There are a lot of great guys and gals at SAA and I am sure the ones that put a lot of negative stuff here wish they were at SAA.
Once more all ,Just my humble opinion!!!
SAA is a National Airline. Not suppose to show a profit. That why they belong to the Government (ANC)
There are a lot of great guys and gals at SAA and I am sure the ones that put a lot of negative stuff here wish they were at SAA.
Once more all ,Just my humble opinion!!!
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Avi8tor
Two Q's once again.
1. Does your airline pay market related prices for it's fuel out of Dubai? If not how does this differ from the SA Gov guaranteeing SAA loans?
2. Is the CEO also the Comm of Civil Aviation?
Is this what you guys mean by a level playing field?
DH
Two Q's once again.
1. Does your airline pay market related prices for it's fuel out of Dubai? If not how does this differ from the SA Gov guaranteeing SAA loans?
2. Is the CEO also the Comm of Civil Aviation?
Is this what you guys mean by a level playing field?
DH
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1.YES - You should see the fuel policy!!
That's why we don't tanker to MLW everytime we depart DXB, if it was cheap we would!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2.NO - He is head of the DCAA which is Dubai's ACSA (Airports Company SA)
The GCAA = The SACAA (Which he has nothing to do with)
That's why we don't tanker to MLW everytime we depart DXB, if it was cheap we would!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Q. Some of your competitors accuse Emirates of enjoying an unfair advantage in terms fuel. Are these allegations valid?
A. Emirates purchases its fuel on the same terms as every other commercial airline at all airports at which it operates, including at Dubai International Airport. In 2007/08, fuel accounted for more than 30% of Emirates' total expenditures, which is comparable with the relevant expenditures of other long haul international carriers such as Qantas, Singapore Airlines, Lufthansa or British Airways. Earlier in 2008, Emirates shared the aviation industry’s pain with respect to record high fuel prices. For the first six months of the financial year ending 30 September 2008, Emirates produced a net profit of Dhs 284 million (US $77 million) - down 88% compared to Dhs 2.36 billion ($643 million) net profits for the same period in 2007 and meant that Emirates’ fuel costs were higher than budgeted by Dhs 1.7 billion ($469 million). From a historically low base, the relevance of oil to Dubai over the last few decades has been steadily diminishing to the point that today oil related GDP represents only 5% of Dubai’s total GDP.
A. Emirates purchases its fuel on the same terms as every other commercial airline at all airports at which it operates, including at Dubai International Airport. In 2007/08, fuel accounted for more than 30% of Emirates' total expenditures, which is comparable with the relevant expenditures of other long haul international carriers such as Qantas, Singapore Airlines, Lufthansa or British Airways. Earlier in 2008, Emirates shared the aviation industry’s pain with respect to record high fuel prices. For the first six months of the financial year ending 30 September 2008, Emirates produced a net profit of Dhs 284 million (US $77 million) - down 88% compared to Dhs 2.36 billion ($643 million) net profits for the same period in 2007 and meant that Emirates’ fuel costs were higher than budgeted by Dhs 1.7 billion ($469 million). From a historically low base, the relevance of oil to Dubai over the last few decades has been steadily diminishing to the point that today oil related GDP represents only 5% of Dubai’s total GDP.
The GCAA = The SACAA (Which he has nothing to do with)
The General Civil Aviation Authority (GCAA) is a federal, autonomous body set up to oversee all aviation-related activities in the United Arab Emirates.
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I am sure the ones that put a lot of negative stuff here wish they were at SAA.
This amazes me, I DO NOT wish to see the demise of SAA or any airline for that matter. That gets my goat is for YEARS we have been hearing about a turn around in SAA, but year after year the begging bowl comes out and the tax payer bails it out.
I would have thought the loyal SAA boys and girls here would be tired of their airline being the laughing stock of the industry' and actually want it to do well for a change.
All I am saying is sell it off, that will force some real management in, not some ANC lackies, and everybody is better off. Instead we get the usual rubbish, paper profits and huge government bail outs.
And please, dont try to deny the paper profits!!!
P.S.
me thinks the desert may be getting to you.
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avi8tor,
I am with you, accountants can be very creative. The track record speaks for itself. Very convenient to massage a profit before the World Cup.............. 2011 onwards is going to be very interesting; it's all World Cup hype right now
Don't take it personal. Remember these guys either elected to stay in a country that's hitting the international news more and more for the wrong reasons, infrastructure falling apart etc. Strikes due to the lack of service delivery are an every day occurrence and the list goes on.
So every time you debate fair practice they see it as an attack on their Alma Mater.
Now let me see, if I got into S.A.A. I would still be an F/O vs. B777 command. Not made huge money on the property market. Worry about my family's personal safety. Spend most of my trips in 3rd world destinations.
Then there is the guys from S.A.A. that did not get into E.K. or C.X. (pax and freighters).. shock and horror.. we don’t talk about that!!!
If they run out of argument or feel cornered they play the S.A.A. bashing card. It’s up there with the race card in S.A.A. Last defense and always sure to get some sympathy.
Ill share the beers with you avi8tor, but we need to collect them before 2011 as there is nothing after this magical Soccer World Cup.
I am with you, accountants can be very creative. The track record speaks for itself. Very convenient to massage a profit before the World Cup.............. 2011 onwards is going to be very interesting; it's all World Cup hype right now
Don't take it personal. Remember these guys either elected to stay in a country that's hitting the international news more and more for the wrong reasons, infrastructure falling apart etc. Strikes due to the lack of service delivery are an every day occurrence and the list goes on.
So every time you debate fair practice they see it as an attack on their Alma Mater.
Now let me see, if I got into S.A.A. I would still be an F/O vs. B777 command. Not made huge money on the property market. Worry about my family's personal safety. Spend most of my trips in 3rd world destinations.
Then there is the guys from S.A.A. that did not get into E.K. or C.X. (pax and freighters).. shock and horror.. we don’t talk about that!!!
If they run out of argument or feel cornered they play the S.A.A. bashing card. It’s up there with the race card in S.A.A. Last defense and always sure to get some sympathy.
Ill share the beers with you avi8tor, but we need to collect them before 2011 as there is nothing after this magical Soccer World Cup.
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At the end of the day I get tired and amused listening to fellow aviators bash each others companies. Whether we work in SA or elsewhere (the freedom of choice) is irrelevant. We are all fellow pilots trying to feed our families, put a roof over their heads, educate our kids etc. We have no control over what airline management does. All we have is our professionalism and mutual respect for each other that differentiates us from them. So bin the "skygods" labels etc. There are bozos in ALL companies. We all want to do the best we can. I had the privilege of being a SKYGOD but chose to leave to go to the sandpit. My reasons are personal. I also worked for Comair. I miss both companies equally and terribly - not for the management, but for the PEOPLE I worked with. Professionals each and all.
I do agree that the taxpayer should not have to bear the brunt of the bills for SAA. However, the pilot body has no control over which bozos get elected to run the airline - I remember a strike ballot being taken years ago by the pilots - not for money, but for proper leadership of the company.
Criticise management all you want, they probably deserve it (in all airlines) but respect each other as fellow aviators.
My two cents worth
Happy landings all, and keep the blue side up
Rgds
Jumbo
I do agree that the taxpayer should not have to bear the brunt of the bills for SAA. However, the pilot body has no control over which bozos get elected to run the airline - I remember a strike ballot being taken years ago by the pilots - not for money, but for proper leadership of the company.
Criticise management all you want, they probably deserve it (in all airlines) but respect each other as fellow aviators.
My two cents worth
Happy landings all, and keep the blue side up
Rgds
Jumbo
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SAA A32O's
Oi Divinehover..!
What makes you think EVERYONE want's to work for SAA "sunshine"?
You seems to be blinded by "reality" mate!
Try and stick your neck out of SA and witness what is happening elsewhere, will yah...!
Dankie Oubaas!
What makes you think EVERYONE want's to work for SAA "sunshine"?
You seems to be blinded by "reality" mate!
Try and stick your neck out of SA and witness what is happening elsewhere, will yah...!
Dankie Oubaas!
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If the desert is so rosy then why this thread :http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/39...nations-4.html
Before I was hired by SAA, I flew on EK a few times on my way to a contract and even stopped over for a night in Dubai on one trip. All the ex-SAA or ex-SA pilots I ran into seemed quite morose and could only talk about their 4 x 4's and the share they had in a boat. That one day in Dubai convinced me I never wanted to go back. Suffocating heat and definitely a second class citizen status as a White SAfrican or other expat. I have never applied for a job with EK or any other foreign airline.
As one ex-SAA pilot who is now with EK told me: "You'll be fine at EK if you don't sweat the small stuff". There do seem to be a few expats who can hack it over there, but most seem to be miserable, especially those who left SAA to go there. And the families of the pilots seem to take the most strain and this is possibly the source of most of the stress the pilots face.
As one who spent 11 years living outside SA before joining SAA, I don't regret returning to SA and I am very appreciative of being a pilot at SAA. There is little that SAAPA can do to ensure that SAA has decent management in place, and this new board is another example of politically and demographically correct appointments who have no clue as to what an airline is about. However, we do have experienced people in senior management who can make the right decisions and hopefully the board will rubber stamp them. Any interference from the board and we'll be back at government's door begging for another cash injection.
As for those who constantly bash SAA, take a chill pill. SAA is a great airline to be a pilot for and we have an awesome pilot group, great routes and aircraft, and our pay packages are among the best in the world. However, we are not Sky Gods and pilots who are not flying for SAA are no less competent or deserving and many are simply not flying for SAA due to circumstance or personal choice. We respect you, so please respect us!! SAA's selection standards and criteria were "modified" and lowered significantly in past years and those who were more deserving and more qualified were not able to join SAA, and many of them are now flying for EK, CX or the other airlines in SA. We are all South Africans and we are all pilots, so let's keep it cordial.
Before I was hired by SAA, I flew on EK a few times on my way to a contract and even stopped over for a night in Dubai on one trip. All the ex-SAA or ex-SA pilots I ran into seemed quite morose and could only talk about their 4 x 4's and the share they had in a boat. That one day in Dubai convinced me I never wanted to go back. Suffocating heat and definitely a second class citizen status as a White SAfrican or other expat. I have never applied for a job with EK or any other foreign airline.
As one ex-SAA pilot who is now with EK told me: "You'll be fine at EK if you don't sweat the small stuff". There do seem to be a few expats who can hack it over there, but most seem to be miserable, especially those who left SAA to go there. And the families of the pilots seem to take the most strain and this is possibly the source of most of the stress the pilots face.
As one who spent 11 years living outside SA before joining SAA, I don't regret returning to SA and I am very appreciative of being a pilot at SAA. There is little that SAAPA can do to ensure that SAA has decent management in place, and this new board is another example of politically and demographically correct appointments who have no clue as to what an airline is about. However, we do have experienced people in senior management who can make the right decisions and hopefully the board will rubber stamp them. Any interference from the board and we'll be back at government's door begging for another cash injection.
As for those who constantly bash SAA, take a chill pill. SAA is a great airline to be a pilot for and we have an awesome pilot group, great routes and aircraft, and our pay packages are among the best in the world. However, we are not Sky Gods and pilots who are not flying for SAA are no less competent or deserving and many are simply not flying for SAA due to circumstance or personal choice. We respect you, so please respect us!! SAA's selection standards and criteria were "modified" and lowered significantly in past years and those who were more deserving and more qualified were not able to join SAA, and many of them are now flying for EK, CX or the other airlines in SA. We are all South Africans and we are all pilots, so let's keep it cordial.
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I used to stop over in DXB on the way to and from SA, as I had friends there. I saw very little reason for living there other than worshiping money, and now that the economy there has taken a hit, at the same time as landlords becoming greedy, that's less of a reason too.
The people I met there seemed quite morose and could only talk about their 4 x 4's and the share they had in a boat (or luxury apartment/penthouse/diving club/Ferrari etc .... as another poster has said. They also drank to ridiculous excess and my closest friend died a horrible death due to complications from this.
I was offered a very good job there, but I never wanted to go back. Suffocating heat and definitely a second class citizen status as a White SAfrican or other expat. The heat didn't worry me but everything else did. I found the place oppressive, vulgar, repressive, shallow, and no place to bring up children.
The people I met there seemed quite morose and could only talk about their 4 x 4's and the share they had in a boat (or luxury apartment/penthouse/diving club/Ferrari etc .... as another poster has said. They also drank to ridiculous excess and my closest friend died a horrible death due to complications from this.
I was offered a very good job there, but I never wanted to go back. Suffocating heat and definitely a second class citizen status as a White SAfrican or other expat. The heat didn't worry me but everything else did. I found the place oppressive, vulgar, repressive, shallow, and no place to bring up children.
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So how did this turn into an E.K. discussion forum??
Aviation is bigger then just S.A.A. and E.K. jbay and others. Once again we are NOT bashing the people but the system. We all have friends in S.A.A., some of my friends are senior and they share their frustrations after a couple of beers, not a pleasant place out side the cockpit.
P.S. Watch the interview with Pres. Zuma on C.N.N. with Christiane Amanpour.. If you still have your head in the sand, good luck.
Aviation is bigger then just S.A.A. and E.K. jbay and others. Once again we are NOT bashing the people but the system. We all have friends in S.A.A., some of my friends are senior and they share their frustrations after a couple of beers, not a pleasant place out side the cockpit.
P.S. Watch the interview with Pres. Zuma on C.N.N. with Christiane Amanpour.. If you still have your head in the sand, good luck.
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Jumbo1 and Jbayfan ................what a breath of fresh air to read your replies , unlike the normal : "yay SAA...again, now lets beat is to death AGAIN " !!!
Greetings Antman ...hope you well, regards to all !
Greetings Antman ...hope you well, regards to all !
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If only
"SAA is a National Airline. Not suppose to show a profit. That why they belong to the Government"
If only that had been the plan pre Colman & Andre times.
The "no need to show a profit / just show the Flag" policy was a reversal of the old 'show a profit policy' and (if memory serves me right) was brought well after Colman showed them how to SHOW (not make - just show) a profit.
If only that had been the plan pre Colman & Andre times.
The "no need to show a profit / just show the Flag" policy was a reversal of the old 'show a profit policy' and (if memory serves me right) was brought well after Colman showed them how to SHOW (not make - just show) a profit.
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How did this turn into a quality/qantity of life debate between SA and the UAE? Ah, I know, if u change the subject, maybe nobody will notice. Old NAT trick 
This is not to bash SAA or my good friends that still fly there. This is about the industry/economy in SA. When I am back in SA all I hear about is how the government is not providing x,y or z.
SA needs to get rid of the parastatals and get on with building houses, schools, roads etc. Let the free market get on with airlines/telephones/TV/power generation etc. SA is a country with limited resourses. It needs to use them wisely. Billions of ZAR's on something the private sector could do, with NO cost to the tax payer, is not that wise.
From the discussions I see here, I get the feeling that the SAA types feel the airline wouldn't make it without tax payer money?
P.S. Just to get my 5c worth on the SA vs anywhere else debate, its a personal choice. I know what works for me.
As for those who constantly bash SAA, take a chill pill
SA needs to get rid of the parastatals and get on with building houses, schools, roads etc. Let the free market get on with airlines/telephones/TV/power generation etc. SA is a country with limited resourses. It needs to use them wisely. Billions of ZAR's on something the private sector could do, with NO cost to the tax payer, is not that wise.
From the discussions I see here, I get the feeling that the SAA types feel the airline wouldn't make it without tax payer money?
P.S. Just to get my 5c worth on the SA vs anywhere else debate, its a personal choice. I know what works for me.
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Half year scenario
I've come to realize it works as follows... The 1st half of the year a profit is declared just before bonusses being payed out to employes. Then the 2nd half of the year (just around the time Trevor used to announce the budget) huge losses are reported.
Half year scenario..
Half year scenario..
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Pure maths, SAA at 2008 58 a/c 11000 employees. First world airlines at about 50 a/c have between 3000 to 6000 employees - Guess how much toilet paper an extra 5 to 6000 people use.. LOL go figure
This is from the Star Alliance 2008:
Air Canada (AC) 335 aircraft 27,619 Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver
Air China (CA) 207 aircraft 18,872 Beijing, Chengdu, Shanghai
Air New Zealand (NZ)96 aircraft 10,829 Auckland, Los Angeles
Air China (CA) 207 aircraft 18,872 Beijing, Chengdu, Shanghai
Air New Zealand (NZ)96 aircraft 10,829 Auckland, Los Angeles
ANA (NH)216 aircraft 22,170 Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya
Asiana Airlines (OZ)65 aircraft 8,180 Seoul Incheon
Austrian (OS)105 aircraft 8,500 Vienna 34 aircr
bmi (BD)50 aircraft 4,378 London Heathrow, Manchester
EgyptAir (MS)49 aircraft 20,734 Cairo
LOT Polish Airlines (LO)54 aircraft 3,600 Warsaw
Lufthansa (LH) 430 aircraft 94,510 Frankfurt, Munich
Scandinavian Airlines (SK)180 aircraft 7,588 Copenhagen, Oslo, StockholmShanghai Airlines (FM)59 aircraft 5,460 Shanghai
Singapore Airlines (SQ)92 aircraft 13,924 Singapore Changi
South African Airways (SA)58 aircraft 11,000 Johannesburg
Spanair (JK)63 aircraft 3,549 Madrid, Barcelona
SWISS (LX)74 aircraft 6,519 Zurich, Geneva, Basel
TAP Portugal (TP)67 aircraft 6,093 Lisbon
Thai Airways Intl. (TG)85 aircraft 26,435 Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket,
Turkish Airlines (TK)97 aircraft 10,591 IstanbulSouth African Airways (SA)58 aircraft 11,000 Johannesburg
Spanair (JK)63 aircraft 3,549 Madrid, Barcelona
SWISS (LX)74 aircraft 6,519 Zurich, Geneva, Basel
TAP Portugal (TP)67 aircraft 6,093 Lisbon
Thai Airways Intl. (TG)85 aircraft 26,435 Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket,
United (UA)460 aircraft 55,000 Chicago, Denver, San Francisco,
Los Angeles, Washington, D.C.
US Airways (US) 356* aircraft 36,500 Charlotte, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Las VegasSome airlines are notably more "well staffed" than others - look at Egypt air - why so many? .. Lufthansa for instance have a reason as they do all their heavy maintainence in house. Thai fly around with 2 full flight crews and about 22 to 24 cabin crew..
Last edited by groundfloor; 9th Oct 2009 at 09:23.
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QRH for PPrune ORG-836/ Forums / Flaming or Trolling:
"SAA should be privatised/ make a profit/ stand on their own two feet/ not be ruled by creative accounting"
Condition:
A topic regarding SAA has been posted, and various mauled to death arguments are being thrashed even more, like the dead horses they are.
---------------------------------------------------
* Set FAIL switch to AUTO.
Choose 1:
* You work for SAA:
- Relentlessly bash those complaining, no matter the logic. Accuse
them of 'just being jealous because they didn't make selection.'
WARNING! - The above step is vital, and no SAA bashing thread can
progress without it!
* You do not work for SAA:
- Agree wholeheartedly, adding that SAA are a bunch of losers in
general.
NOTE - It is important to bait any SAA crew enough to get them
to feel that you actually, deep down, just want to be in SAA, really.
* If AUTOFAIL does not function, start getting personal.
WARNING! - Do not under any circumstances somehow bring the topic of old ballies like SL or any other SAA heavs into the topic. Loss of life/ severe injury could result.
NOTE: This checklist CANNOT be completed.
XXXXX
"SAA should be privatised/ make a profit/ stand on their own two feet/ not be ruled by creative accounting"
Condition:
A topic regarding SAA has been posted, and various mauled to death arguments are being thrashed even more, like the dead horses they are.
---------------------------------------------------
* Set FAIL switch to AUTO.
Choose 1:
* You work for SAA:
- Relentlessly bash those complaining, no matter the logic. Accuse
them of 'just being jealous because they didn't make selection.'
WARNING! - The above step is vital, and no SAA bashing thread can
progress without it!
* You do not work for SAA:
- Agree wholeheartedly, adding that SAA are a bunch of losers in
general.
NOTE - It is important to bait any SAA crew enough to get them
to feel that you actually, deep down, just want to be in SAA, really.
* If AUTOFAIL does not function, start getting personal.
WARNING! - Do not under any circumstances somehow bring the topic of old ballies like SL or any other SAA heavs into the topic. Loss of life/ severe injury could result.
NOTE: This checklist CANNOT be completed.
XXXXX