SA Airlink J41 crash
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Pilot Alister Freeman succumbed to his injuries on October 7.
Only found out today when I saw a news release today that the flight attendantSonja Bierman was released from hospital, and the bystander that got hit by the aircraft was scheduled for release later today.
Only found out today when I saw a news release today that the flight attendantSonja Bierman was released from hospital, and the bystander that got hit by the aircraft was scheduled for release later today.
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There's alot of talk about the number 1 and number 2 engine on this Jetstream...correct me if i'm wrong is it not called a LEFT and RIGHT engine on a twin aircraft. When the fire bell blurts as load as it can does it not say LEFT ENGINE FIRE, RIGHT ENGINE FIRE or does it say NUMBER 1 ENGINE FIRE, NUMBER 2 ENGINE FIRE. Maybe on a 4 engine aircraft as the number 2 engine on a 4 engine aircraft is on the LEFT wing? MMMMM something to think about.
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To quote spongebathbob
You are wrong! So completely wrong it is actually scary.
ZFT, I think 'blurts as load' translates to 'blurts out loud'.
I believe the post from spongebathbob was written in 'Idiot'.
There's alot of talk about the number 1 and number 2 engine on this Jetstream...correct me if i'm wrong ...
ZFT, I think 'blurts as load' translates to 'blurts out loud'.
I believe the post from spongebathbob was written in 'Idiot'.
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Spongebathbob please stop being so pedantic and rediculous. If you are a pilot {which I doubt} surely you would know how many engines your aircraft has and where they are! I fly a 4 engine aircraft and I know I have 2 under each wing. You would think that would be covered on the first lesson on your technical lectures. Besides calling the engines by number is far more professional as opposed to "left" and "right". This is a ridiculous point made by you considering the nature of this thread.
ct
ct
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Left or right/no. 1 or no. 2 varies from type to type and is established by the manufacturer as what is the best. A Dash-8 uses the no. 1 and no. 2 philosophy and even has a 1 and 2 painted on the power and condition levers. From the same manufacturer the CRJ uses the left and right philosophy.
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Actually spungbob is not that wrong.
The Jetstream does not refere to #1 or #2 but left or right. Be it engine, genie.
But having said that, still makes no difference.
The Jetstream does not refere to #1 or #2 but left or right. Be it engine, genie.
But having said that, still makes no difference.
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The left or the right for the cabin crew?
That depends from whose angle you are speaking.
In a turbo liner with the hostess with her back to the cockpit door, her right is the Captain's left.
Port and Starboard are the only two words that so specifically describe the left and the right of an aircraft as to be unequivocal.
That depends from whose angle you are speaking.
In a turbo liner with the hostess with her back to the cockpit door, her right is the Captain's left.
Port and Starboard are the only two words that so specifically describe the left and the right of an aircraft as to be unequivocal.
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In a turbo liner with the hostess with her back to the cockpit door, her right is the Captain's left.
Port and Starboard are the only two words that so specifically describe the left and the right of an aircraft as to be unequivocal.
Port and Starboard are the only two words that so specifically describe the left and the right of an aircraft as to be unequivocal.
JSP
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Spongebathbob please stop being so pedantic and rediculous. If you are a pilot {which I doubt} surely you would know how many engines your aircraft has and where they are!
Spare some thought thinking about the more than 99% of aircraft types which you have not flown. As for spongebathbob, he is in fact right. Also he was not speculating anything regarding this event.
My apologies to everyone for going off-topic. I hope everyone recovers quickly.
I don't want to jump into the fight (above) about "who is right" and "who is wrong", however, from a human factors perspective, it appears to me that it would make a whole lot of sense if the manufacturers of twin engine aircraft standardized on "right and left" as the nomenclature for engines.
The aircraft I specialize in (Twin Otter) uses right and left, however the Dash 8 - also a DH product - uses 1 and 2. Perhaps this is because DH produced the 4 engine Dash 7 in between these two, and they didn't think too carefully about the nomenclature when they did the labelling for the Dash 8.
"Port and Starboard" are terms that seem to slowly be evolving into archaic words - we inherited them from the nautical world, and few new pilots who do not have previous nautical experience are familiar with the terms. On the other hand, everyone knows what left and right refer to. The flight attendents are likely familiar with which side of the plane is left and which side is right, regardless of which way they may be facing when they are seated.
The aircraft I specialize in (Twin Otter) uses right and left, however the Dash 8 - also a DH product - uses 1 and 2. Perhaps this is because DH produced the 4 engine Dash 7 in between these two, and they didn't think too carefully about the nomenclature when they did the labelling for the Dash 8.
"Port and Starboard" are terms that seem to slowly be evolving into archaic words - we inherited them from the nautical world, and few new pilots who do not have previous nautical experience are familiar with the terms. On the other hand, everyone knows what left and right refer to. The flight attendents are likely familiar with which side of the plane is left and which side is right, regardless of which way they may be facing when they are seated.
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I do not think that there is really a right and a wrong here, any more than left is wrong or right is right. However, I remember reading the report on an F27 situation ex LBA some years ago.
Just after airborne,below 400ft, the no 1 engine fire bell went off. The crew dealt with the emergency as per the SOPs and the checklist and returned for a landing at LBA. The Captain instructed the forward cabin crew, via the intercom telephone, to evacuate the aircraft through the right hand side. I do not remember reading the exact words used but the intention, obviously enough, was to evacuate on the side away from the engine which was or had been (for real) on fire. May I say just that there was some confusion and that initially the aircraft was evacuated towards the left hand side, port side, no 1 engine - in any event, the engine that had been or still was on fire.
With hindsight 20/20 perhaps the Captain should have called the No 1 up to the cockpit and pointedingly told her to evacuate through THAT side. But then we all know how wonderful hindsight is especially when the heat is in the kitchen.
The only point here surely, is not to pick holes in the phraseology of others but to find or determine a phraseology which removes ambiguity and improves safety.
In the old nautical days, port used to be called larboard but it was changed to port to remove exactly that sort of ambiguity of which we speak. It seems that even in these pages of Pprune this might be difficult and so I make the following suggestion based upon history and its precedents.
When in the winter of 1778/9 the troops of George Washington were encamped at Valley Forge, many of them were farm boy recruits who did not know their left from the right. Drilling was a problem and so it was got around by tying a bundle of hay to the left boot and one of the straw to the right boot. Every farm boy know hay from straw and so left/right march became hay/straw march. I think that nudes airbrushed on the inside of the cabin would do very well. We could have black nude on the left and white nude on the right-therefore staying with the political correct. Evacuate through the black nude or the white nude would get rid of any confusion I expect.
Just after airborne,below 400ft, the no 1 engine fire bell went off. The crew dealt with the emergency as per the SOPs and the checklist and returned for a landing at LBA. The Captain instructed the forward cabin crew, via the intercom telephone, to evacuate the aircraft through the right hand side. I do not remember reading the exact words used but the intention, obviously enough, was to evacuate on the side away from the engine which was or had been (for real) on fire. May I say just that there was some confusion and that initially the aircraft was evacuated towards the left hand side, port side, no 1 engine - in any event, the engine that had been or still was on fire.
With hindsight 20/20 perhaps the Captain should have called the No 1 up to the cockpit and pointedingly told her to evacuate through THAT side. But then we all know how wonderful hindsight is especially when the heat is in the kitchen.
The only point here surely, is not to pick holes in the phraseology of others but to find or determine a phraseology which removes ambiguity and improves safety.
In the old nautical days, port used to be called larboard but it was changed to port to remove exactly that sort of ambiguity of which we speak. It seems that even in these pages of Pprune this might be difficult and so I make the following suggestion based upon history and its precedents.
When in the winter of 1778/9 the troops of George Washington were encamped at Valley Forge, many of them were farm boy recruits who did not know their left from the right. Drilling was a problem and so it was got around by tying a bundle of hay to the left boot and one of the straw to the right boot. Every farm boy know hay from straw and so left/right march became hay/straw march. I think that nudes airbrushed on the inside of the cabin would do very well. We could have black nude on the left and white nude on the right-therefore staying with the political correct. Evacuate through the black nude or the white nude would get rid of any confusion I expect.
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Pilots are such WA---ERS.
I am stunned to see that a group of pilots who have the responsibility of flying the public around safely, actually argue about something as dumb and stupid as engine NUMBER ONE or TWO, or is it left or right?
WWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF??????? ????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For years I have not read PPRUNE until I heard about this accident - Nothing has changed.
We have, and always will, step on each other to be the better pilot. Maverick and Iceman are real after all...
Did Goose die because Maverick lost NUMBER ONE, TWO, left, right, or both engines...I guess I will have to watch the movie again because now I am so confused!
I am stunned to see that a group of pilots who have the responsibility of flying the public around safely, actually argue about something as dumb and stupid as engine NUMBER ONE or TWO, or is it left or right?
WWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF??????? ????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For years I have not read PPRUNE until I heard about this accident - Nothing has changed.
We have, and always will, step on each other to be the better pilot. Maverick and Iceman are real after all...
Did Goose die because Maverick lost NUMBER ONE, TWO, left, right, or both engines...I guess I will have to watch the movie again because now I am so confused!
Last edited by SKYTORT; 18th Oct 2009 at 12:20.
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SKYTORT we are not all wa...kers. Well some of us have to be as we are away from home so much and the local talent is well, not good for the health.
As for Maveric and Goose's engine out it was the Right/Number 2/ Starboard engine.
Now go away for a few more years will you!
ct
As for Maveric and Goose's engine out it was the Right/Number 2/ Starboard engine.
Now go away for a few more years will you!
ct
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Which way out?
"Evacuate using all available exits". This little phrase will save your bacon. More than one lawyer has looked over it. As a pilot you will not always know the status at each exit point. Its up to the pax to decide if its available or not. Sounds harsh but hey..... this is what the worlds come to. Because woe betide you tell a pax to jump into a fire by suggesting a course of exit..!