Comair taking unnecessary flak
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Comair taking unnecessary flak
Finance24Comair fined for EE actions2007-11-13 18:55Cape Town - The Labour Department has taken Comair to court for breaching provisions of the Employment Equity Act, according to the government's news agency Bua News.
The agency reported on Tuesday that the department's director-general Vanguard Mkosana filed the application with the Johannesburg labour court after giving several warnings to the airline.
According to the application, Comair has been found to be in breach of the following provisions of the Employment Equity Act:
Section 20 of Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998, by failing to prepare and implement an Employment Equity Plan which would achieve reasonable progress towards employment equity in the respondent's workplace between the periods 2000 to September 2007;
Section 21 (2) (3) (4) and (5) by submitting reports to the first applicant which were not based on any existing Employment Equity Plan of the respondent and/or submitting falsified reports;
Section 21 (3) of Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998 by failing to submit a report to the Director General on the first working day of October 2007;
Section 24 of Employment Equity Act, in that Comair failed to assign one or more senior managers to take responsibility for monitoring and implementing an EE Plan from 2000 to 26 March 2007; and
Section 26 of EE Act 55 of 1998 by failing to keep records in respect of its workforce, its EE Plan and other records relevant for purposes of compliance with the EE Act 55 of 1998.
Comair is also being ordered to pay a fine of R900 000 as prescribed by schedule 1 of the Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998 and to pay the costs of the application.
The company is also required to file notice of intention to oppose and an answering affidavit within 10 days from the date the application was served.
If no intention to oppose and an answering affidavit were filed as required in the notice of motion, the application might be heard in the respondent's absence and an order for costs might be sought against the respondent.
- I-Net Bridge
I-Net Bridge (Business)
My view: Comair has done more than all but one airline in this country to adress the so called imbalance. Which other airline except SAA has a continuously running cadet program? The Captain group at Comair is being viewed by the government as "management" and as a result "too white". Show me one airline in this country that has achieved the required complement of black managers.
I am tired of this crap.
The agency reported on Tuesday that the department's director-general Vanguard Mkosana filed the application with the Johannesburg labour court after giving several warnings to the airline.
According to the application, Comair has been found to be in breach of the following provisions of the Employment Equity Act:
Section 20 of Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998, by failing to prepare and implement an Employment Equity Plan which would achieve reasonable progress towards employment equity in the respondent's workplace between the periods 2000 to September 2007;
Section 21 (2) (3) (4) and (5) by submitting reports to the first applicant which were not based on any existing Employment Equity Plan of the respondent and/or submitting falsified reports;
Section 21 (3) of Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998 by failing to submit a report to the Director General on the first working day of October 2007;
Section 24 of Employment Equity Act, in that Comair failed to assign one or more senior managers to take responsibility for monitoring and implementing an EE Plan from 2000 to 26 March 2007; and
Section 26 of EE Act 55 of 1998 by failing to keep records in respect of its workforce, its EE Plan and other records relevant for purposes of compliance with the EE Act 55 of 1998.
Comair is also being ordered to pay a fine of R900 000 as prescribed by schedule 1 of the Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998 and to pay the costs of the application.
The company is also required to file notice of intention to oppose and an answering affidavit within 10 days from the date the application was served.
If no intention to oppose and an answering affidavit were filed as required in the notice of motion, the application might be heard in the respondent's absence and an order for costs might be sought against the respondent.
- I-Net Bridge
I-Net Bridge (Business)
My view: Comair has done more than all but one airline in this country to adress the so called imbalance. Which other airline except SAA has a continuously running cadet program? The Captain group at Comair is being viewed by the government as "management" and as a result "too white". Show me one airline in this country that has achieved the required complement of black managers.
I am tired of this crap.
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Sad Day
Once again South Africa gives the rest of the world reason to sit around and have another laugh at our expence.
This is madness, another good company that could potentially face ownership change if EE gets away with this.
What is it with these people? why do they insist on taking a perfectly good company and enforcing some rediculous rules that suit purely themselves? Are the indigenous so stupid that they believe they will benefit from this? Just yesterday I read an article that there are a greater number of poor people now than in 1996, so pray tell how does the average person benefit? Guess he doesn't just the few fat cats in parliment.
Hopefully one day we will wake up, I for one don't want to live in another Zimbabwe!
This is madness, another good company that could potentially face ownership change if EE gets away with this.
What is it with these people? why do they insist on taking a perfectly good company and enforcing some rediculous rules that suit purely themselves? Are the indigenous so stupid that they believe they will benefit from this? Just yesterday I read an article that there are a greater number of poor people now than in 1996, so pray tell how does the average person benefit? Guess he doesn't just the few fat cats in parliment.
Hopefully one day we will wake up, I for one don't want to live in another Zimbabwe!
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"This is madness, another good company that could potentially face ownership change if EE gets away with this.
What is it with these people? why do they insist on taking a perfectly good company and enforcing some rediculous rules that suit purely themselves? Are the indigenous so stupid that they believe they will benefit from this? Just yesterday I read an article that there are a greater number of poor people now than in 1996, so pray tell how does the average person benefit? Guess he doesn't just the few fat cats in parliment."
Sayswho, you said it in your first line. The ownership change they want is for the "new elite" to own everything. The African mindset, as demonstrated throughout Africa, is "Too much is not enough" otherwise known as greed on an unimaginable scale. No, the indigenous people are not stupid. Name a system in this country whether it be banking system, car registration system, drivers licences or whatever and they have come up with mind-boggling ways to circumvent or subvert said system. Ways neither you nor I could have dreamed of. Stupidity in SA cannot be measured as a lack of brains but rather in the criminally lazy attitude and pathetic lack of integrity demonstrated to date. As for the fat cats in parliament, they dont want to work neither and are happy to be dishing out sufficient crumbs to ensure they get the votes and retain their seats on the gravy train. Then too, anybody who thinks we are better off than Zim needs to look at the latest Mo Schaik Index (no relation to Shabir, by the way)to see that Zim scores higher as a safer place to stay than SA managed. Put simply we are worse off than Zim!
What is it with these people? why do they insist on taking a perfectly good company and enforcing some rediculous rules that suit purely themselves? Are the indigenous so stupid that they believe they will benefit from this? Just yesterday I read an article that there are a greater number of poor people now than in 1996, so pray tell how does the average person benefit? Guess he doesn't just the few fat cats in parliment."
Sayswho, you said it in your first line. The ownership change they want is for the "new elite" to own everything. The African mindset, as demonstrated throughout Africa, is "Too much is not enough" otherwise known as greed on an unimaginable scale. No, the indigenous people are not stupid. Name a system in this country whether it be banking system, car registration system, drivers licences or whatever and they have come up with mind-boggling ways to circumvent or subvert said system. Ways neither you nor I could have dreamed of. Stupidity in SA cannot be measured as a lack of brains but rather in the criminally lazy attitude and pathetic lack of integrity demonstrated to date. As for the fat cats in parliament, they dont want to work neither and are happy to be dishing out sufficient crumbs to ensure they get the votes and retain their seats on the gravy train. Then too, anybody who thinks we are better off than Zim needs to look at the latest Mo Schaik Index (no relation to Shabir, by the way)to see that Zim scores higher as a safer place to stay than SA managed. Put simply we are worse off than Zim!
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Just playing Devils Avocate here.....but go ahead shoot me down.
SAA has been hamstrung (financially) by having to comply with the BEE laws for a while now, and to be honest with you its probably only right, 95% of the pilots in SA are white male, so you can understand the governments concern, the fact that they have done nothing to develop an interest in aviation amongst the PD people or offer a pittiful little Cadet programme that just serves the interests of a few politicians and training captains children, means nothing to the government, they are far happier promoting people who were never disadvantaged in the first place and in Comairs case taking them to court.
I suspected something like this would happen, Comair has been bitching about SAA for so long while having a firm hand in many of the dubious practices that SAA was involved in ie, the demise of Sunair, and the Agents Comission etc.... oh and lets not forget making full use of SAA technical......maybe its payback time.
SAA has been hamstrung (financially) by having to comply with the BEE laws for a while now, and to be honest with you its probably only right, 95% of the pilots in SA are white male, so you can understand the governments concern, the fact that they have done nothing to develop an interest in aviation amongst the PD people or offer a pittiful little Cadet programme that just serves the interests of a few politicians and training captains children, means nothing to the government, they are far happier promoting people who were never disadvantaged in the first place and in Comairs case taking them to court.
I suspected something like this would happen, Comair has been bitching about SAA for so long while having a firm hand in many of the dubious practices that SAA was involved in ie, the demise of Sunair, and the Agents Comission etc.... oh and lets not forget making full use of SAA technical......maybe its payback time.
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Hey Fluffy, guess nothing sensible will ever come out of your mouth!
Underhanded dealings are one thing and are not to be confused with the case at hand here.
You work for a goverment airline so you are in no position to compare. If your airline had to face competition in the same way as the rest out there you would be no more!
The argument here is should a hard working airline that has had to compete with such as the airline you affiliate yourself with now have to bow to 'political' pressure? Sure you would enjoy that! afterall it would give your miserable position an excuse for existance should another fold.
I would love to see Comair stick it to the goverment and to the rest of you BEE huggers out there
Remember Fluffy BA carries the Springboks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Underhanded dealings are one thing and are not to be confused with the case at hand here.
You work for a goverment airline so you are in no position to compare. If your airline had to face competition in the same way as the rest out there you would be no more!
The argument here is should a hard working airline that has had to compete with such
as the airline you affiliate yourself with now have to bow to 'political' pressure? Sure you would enjoy that! afterall it would give your miserable position an excuse for existance should another fold. I would love to see Comair stick it to the goverment and to the rest of you BEE huggers out there
Remember Fluffy BA carries the Springboks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by sayswho; 14th Nov 2007 at 17:15.
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The issue is not being partially state owned/supported or not. The issue is that top management need to be really on top of things in the highly complex and competitive field of aviation. A professor once said that the "top elite" must be of impeccable integrity and of the highest competence. Never was ancestral origins in the equation, but it is sad for the entire industry when the racial card is used to force people into positions where quite frankly, they can cause irreparable damage and harm. Such positions are earned by hard work and experience, and you cannot take the time required factor out of experience. If you do, its called something else: fast tracking!
Sad, it is.
Sad, it is.
Paxing All Over The World
Whilst these events are very uncomfortable, what we are seeing is the swing of the pendulum.
During apartheid, the Nats did the equal and opposite. It was inevitable that the pendulum would over swing in the opposite direction. In due course, it may stabilise in the middle but experience around the world says that will take a little time.
Jamex used words that could be applied 100% to apartheid:
They did that to swing the system in their favour, now the systems are being swung in someone else's favour. It may be uncomfortable but that is the way human beings are.
Please bear in mind that I fully understand that being a pilot is not a typical aspiration for a young person of colour. In another 30 years it may be but it is not in their family or education system - yet. Likewise, I fully understand that they want to see more people of colour in the Springboks but, quite apart from that also not being in their culture, most people of Southern Africa are not of the physical body type to play the game. In due course, that will be understood but the pendulum must swing the full arc before that happens. I predict that more whites will be removed from the team and they will start losing matches. They will go through a bad period of anything up to ten years. Then they will, either, have enough people of colour to get back on top and claim victory, OR they will have come back to a balance of pigmentation.
Want one last example? In the UK: During the 1960s and 70s, the Trades Unions got everything their own way and it was mayhem. In the 1980s and 90s, the mgmt got their own way and it was mayhem. Now, in the '00s, matters are beginning to be stable in the middle.
OK, now you can scorch me off the face of your planet.
During apartheid, the Nats did the equal and opposite. It was inevitable that the pendulum would over swing in the opposite direction. In due course, it may stabilise in the middle but experience around the world says that will take a little time.
Jamex used words that could be applied 100% to apartheid:
Name a system in this country whether it be banking system, car registration system, drivers licences or whatever and they have come up with mind-boggling ways to circumvent or subvert said system.
Please bear in mind that I fully understand that being a pilot is not a typical aspiration for a young person of colour. In another 30 years it may be but it is not in their family or education system - yet. Likewise, I fully understand that they want to see more people of colour in the Springboks but, quite apart from that also not being in their culture, most people of Southern Africa are not of the physical body type to play the game. In due course, that will be understood but the pendulum must swing the full arc before that happens. I predict that more whites will be removed from the team and they will start losing matches. They will go through a bad period of anything up to ten years. Then they will, either, have enough people of colour to get back on top and claim victory, OR they will have come back to a balance of pigmentation.
Want one last example? In the UK: During the 1960s and 70s, the Trades Unions got everything their own way and it was mayhem. In the 1980s and 90s, the mgmt got their own way and it was mayhem. Now, in the '00s, matters are beginning to be stable in the middle.
OK, now you can scorch me off the face of your planet.
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A professor once said that the "top elite" must be of impeccable integrity and of the highest competence.
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Comair taking unnecessary flak?
Interestingly, if you read the actual article clearly, Comair are mainly being fines for what seems like administrative ups.
When they were originally included on a list of 6 large companies that were 'named and shamed' by the minister, they were the only ones who publicly spoke out against him, essentially telling him he did not know what he was talking about. At that point, the issue of EE pilots was not raised. The minister criticised them for not having any executive managers that were EE appointments. Perhaps there was some arrogance involved there, maybe not. But it wouldn't be a first from a Novick.
EE is a reality, whether we like it or not. It is not like this issue crept up on Comair overnight. They know what is required of them and should have at least had a plan in place. As should every other airline in SA right now. Don't be surprised to see the Department of Labour put some focus on the aviation industry as a whole now.
ups.
According to the application, Comair has been found to be in breach of the following provisions of the Employment Equity Act:
Section 20 of Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998, by failing to prepare and implement an Employment Equity Plan which would achieve reasonable progress towards employment equity in the respondent's workplace between the periods 2000 to September 2007;
Section 21 (2) (3) (4) and (5) by submitting reports to the first applicant which were not based on any existing Employment Equity Plan of the respondent and/or submitting falsified reports;
Section 21 (3) of Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998 by failing to submit a report to the Director General on the first working day of October 2007;
Section 24 of Employment Equity Act, in that Comair failed to assign one or more senior managers to take responsibility for monitoring and implementing an EE Plan from 2000 to 26 March 2007;
Section 26 of EE Act 55 of 1998 by failing to keep records in respect of its workforce, its EE Plan and other records relevant for purposes of compliance with the EE Act 55 of 1998.
Section 20 of Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998, by failing to prepare and implement an Employment Equity Plan which would achieve reasonable progress towards employment equity in the respondent's workplace between the periods 2000 to September 2007;
Section 21 (2) (3) (4) and (5) by submitting reports to the first applicant which were not based on any existing Employment Equity Plan of the respondent and/or submitting falsified reports;
Section 21 (3) of Employment Equity Act 55 of 1998 by failing to submit a report to the Director General on the first working day of October 2007;
Section 24 of Employment Equity Act, in that Comair failed to assign one or more senior managers to take responsibility for monitoring and implementing an EE Plan from 2000 to 26 March 2007;
Section 26 of EE Act 55 of 1998 by failing to keep records in respect of its workforce, its EE Plan and other records relevant for purposes of compliance with the EE Act 55 of 1998.
EE is a reality, whether we like it or not. It is not like this issue crept up on Comair overnight. They know what is required of them and should have at least had a plan in place. As should every other airline in SA right now. Don't be surprised to see the Department of Labour put some focus on the aviation industry as a whole now.
I may be shot down for this but isn't this a blast from the past with the shoe on the other foot????
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Errrr....
Wasn't the whole "liberation struggle" hair pulling excercise in order to ensure this kind of thing never happened again?
Doesn't help making the same mistakes all over again as the SA govt seem hell bent on doing.
Wasn't the whole "liberation struggle" hair pulling excercise in order to ensure this kind of thing never happened again?
Doesn't help making the same mistakes all over again as the SA govt seem hell bent on doing.
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'shoe on the other foot', 'not lekker when it happens to you'
Typical sentiments of them and us syndrome! Just to clear something up I do not and have never worked for Comair, but would have gladly if the oppertunity had arised.
But what I see from this little debate is how quickly as per usual the SAA clan try to stick together and justify their existance. Like I said earlier your situation is different, you are goverment owned and you are the leaches of the aviation industry. You are not needed, and at any one moment there are other airlines (Comair) that are quite capable of filling the very little hole you would leave.
This however is rather about what is right and wrong! and point fingers if you wish but I feel that aviation would be a lot better off if the goverment and labour just stay out of it. They have no expertise in the area and if they become involved it would be purely to promote a system that has failed for the past 13 years or for a few to get rich quick. I left the SA working enviroment 5 years ago due to their rediculous policys (white 30 odd year old male) so don't think for one miniute I support them. If they get their own way with Comair Im affraid to say Zimbabwe will become an example of what is to come.
Good Luck - Do you have a way out?
EISH!!!!!
Typical sentiments of them and us syndrome! Just to clear something up I do not and have never worked for Comair, but would have gladly if the oppertunity had arised.
But what I see from this little debate is how quickly as per usual the SAA clan try to stick together and justify their existance. Like I said earlier your situation is different, you are goverment owned and you are the leaches of the aviation industry. You are not needed, and at any one moment there are other airlines (Comair) that are quite capable of filling the very little hole you would leave.
This however is rather about what is right and wrong! and point fingers if you wish but I feel that aviation would be a lot better off if the goverment and labour just stay out of it. They have no expertise in the area and if they become involved it would be purely to promote a system that has failed for the past 13 years or for a few to get rich quick. I left the SA working enviroment 5 years ago due to their rediculous policys (white 30 odd year old male) so don't think for one miniute I support them. If they get their own way with Comair Im affraid to say Zimbabwe will become an example of what is to come.
Good Luck - Do you have a way out?
EISH!!!!!
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they got a "homelands" which was alot more than we got. havent you noticed the GOV beemers and mercs at ORT thats were this all ends up saw a CBS clip on you tube the other nite mugabe reassuring whites in south africa just prior to the 94 elections,
my, how things hav changed
revenge is sweet i guess
my, how things hav changedrevenge is sweet i guess
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Sayswho. You ps. I fly the biggest shiniest in the country. I have plenty options. Apparently you couldn't even make a Comair selection
