SAA pilots on the verge of a mass exodus?
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Guys, please don't generalise about non-white pilots!
I'm an Indian (meaning not black enough, not white enough). I've cut my teeth instructing and now I'm touring all the s###holes of Africa, tents, containers, etc. I've been there and no I'm not a cadet. I also get pissed off when I see less experienced or less passionate okes, or airline sons getting in without doing the rounds. I've done about 5 contracts now and the majority of the captains I flew with, where white and absolutely awesome okes, infact the only guy who had a chip on his shoulder was a non-white. I want to get to the airlines someday as well, but if the oke next to me thinks I'm a "token" and treats me as such, then he deserves to be given the boot. Like your guys I want a level playing field as well, I can see where BEE comes from but aviation is not the place to be fast tracking people, safety should always come first.
You know on contract, no matter what the guys colour is, we make it as enjoyable as possible and I would go to the ends of the earth for some of those guys. I hope someday we can all get along.
I'm an Indian (meaning not black enough, not white enough). I've cut my teeth instructing and now I'm touring all the s###holes of Africa, tents, containers, etc. I've been there and no I'm not a cadet. I also get pissed off when I see less experienced or less passionate okes, or airline sons getting in without doing the rounds. I've done about 5 contracts now and the majority of the captains I flew with, where white and absolutely awesome okes, infact the only guy who had a chip on his shoulder was a non-white. I want to get to the airlines someday as well, but if the oke next to me thinks I'm a "token" and treats me as such, then he deserves to be given the boot. Like your guys I want a level playing field as well, I can see where BEE comes from but aviation is not the place to be fast tracking people, safety should always come first.
You know on contract, no matter what the guys colour is, we make it as enjoyable as possible and I would go to the ends of the earth for some of those guys. I hope someday we can all get along.
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Affirmative action
I do not agree with this policy. But why is it that when the company and country were enforcing their apartheid policies, we were all standing back and looking the other way. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, we are all up in arms.
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Onya, Mr 14.
It's unfortunate that the guys with the right stuff and great attitudes continue being regarded as tokens because of a system in place to fast track others who are not prepared to put in the hard yards. When the whole deal reverts to merit, then only will things return to normal.
On contract getting on for 12 years now. Still waiting for that break...
Sexdriven
What would you have liked what was then more than likely a bunch of schoolkids to have done? Are you saying two wrongs do in fact make a right? What was done was that a referendum was held and pretty much the white population of SA eligible to vote then chose to change the system to what they believed was a better one, in which all people of SA had a say. It's unfortunate that the trust they had in a new dispensation was broken and a culture of revenge and entitlement has taken the place of hope and commitment to a better future. The **** remains the same, only the flies have changed.
It's unfortunate that the guys with the right stuff and great attitudes continue being regarded as tokens because of a system in place to fast track others who are not prepared to put in the hard yards. When the whole deal reverts to merit, then only will things return to normal.
On contract getting on for 12 years now. Still waiting for that break...
Sexdriven
What would you have liked what was then more than likely a bunch of schoolkids to have done? Are you saying two wrongs do in fact make a right? What was done was that a referendum was held and pretty much the white population of SA eligible to vote then chose to change the system to what they believed was a better one, in which all people of SA had a say. It's unfortunate that the trust they had in a new dispensation was broken and a culture of revenge and entitlement has taken the place of hope and commitment to a better future. The **** remains the same, only the flies have changed.
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DJ do managemnet types like yourself read these pages anymore or do you just avoid all the negative critisim and pretend everything is ok?
What you
idiots do not realise is that the majority of pilots at SAA are making contingency plans, there is a rumour that Qantas may be coming to do a roadshow and adding Pilots to the list of jobs that are required in Aus......if this happens I assure you, you can close down SAA because you will not have people to fly the aircraft anymore.
Why dont the short sighted racisit management at SAA look around and see what is happening in the rest of the world, there is a huge pilot shortage, they need to look after the highly skilled pilot stock that they have if they have any hope of moving forward......there are no Chinese or Indian contract pilot to come and fly the aircraft for you when you have chased us all away, there are very few pilots left in SA working for the competitors who want to come to SAA with all the incompetence displayed by management, in case you have not knoticed Nationwide, Comair, 1Time are in the middle of there own pilot crisis.
You management idots should be very careful what you wish for......you may just get it......you may get it not because of any clever management or negotiation on your behalf, but because all your pilots have off becuse they cant stand the incompetence displayed by you on a daily basis...............oh and by the way, I am aware of at least 4 previously disadvantaged people who have been for interviews and should be coming to tell you guys to stick your job where the sun dont shine any day now
What you
idiots do not realise is that the majority of pilots at SAA are making contingency plans, there is a rumour that Qantas may be coming to do a roadshow and adding Pilots to the list of jobs that are required in Aus......if this happens I assure you, you can close down SAA because you will not have people to fly the aircraft anymore.Why dont the short sighted racisit management at SAA look around and see what is happening in the rest of the world, there is a huge pilot shortage, they need to look after the highly skilled pilot stock that they have if they have any hope of moving forward......there are no Chinese or Indian contract pilot to come and fly the aircraft for you when you have chased us all away, there are very few pilots left in SA working for the competitors who want to come to SAA with all the incompetence displayed by management, in case you have not knoticed Nationwide, Comair, 1Time are in the middle of there own pilot crisis.
You management idots should be very careful what you wish for......you may just get it......you may get it not because of any clever management or negotiation on your behalf, but because all your pilots have
off becuse they cant stand the incompetence displayed by you on a daily basis...............oh and by the way, I am aware of at least 4 previously disadvantaged people who have been for interviews and should be coming to tell you guys to stick your job where the sun dont shine any day now
THUNDERTAILED
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What you see happening in the tree of SAA is what is happening all through the forest which is South Africa.
Worse, South Africa is on a drug called 2010 at the moment and the comedown after that drug is finished is going to be very hard.
There aren't 5 million whites here anymore. Last statistic I heard was that there were only less than 2 million left out of the 4 million from the 1994 census. Couldn't believe it when I heard it, but then realised that more than half of the friends and people I know have left, including my whole family except me
Worse, South Africa is on a drug called 2010 at the moment and the comedown after that drug is finished is going to be very hard.
There aren't 5 million whites here anymore. Last statistic I heard was that there were only less than 2 million left out of the 4 million from the 1994 census. Couldn't believe it when I heard it, but then realised that more than half of the friends and people I know have left, including my whole family except me
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Well said SRT, could not agree with you more.
If there are 35 million blacks in SA and 2 million whites, where are all the black pilots that have paid for their own flight training in the last ten years,( there are more upper and middle class black families in SA than white) been instructing, worked on contract for a few 1000 hours for crap pay and living in **** holes away from their families in order to get into SAA?(airlines)
By my reckoning there should be 17 - 1 ratio on contract, as most of the guys I flew with have been flying for less than 6 years. The company I worked for employed people of all races, religions and sex, and I flew with a couple of "pilots of colour," but not one black pilot who had financed his own route, in fact I have never flown with a black pilot, cause they just seem to skip the route I am on. (non airline)
IMHO you cannot force intergration or quota's they need to happen over time, and doing so will be the downfall of any gathering, institution or Nation.
If there are 35 million blacks in SA and 2 million whites, where are all the black pilots that have paid for their own flight training in the last ten years,( there are more upper and middle class black families in SA than white) been instructing, worked on contract for a few 1000 hours for crap pay and living in **** holes away from their families in order to get into SAA?(airlines)
By my reckoning there should be 17 - 1 ratio on contract, as most of the guys I flew with have been flying for less than 6 years. The company I worked for employed people of all races, religions and sex, and I flew with a couple of "pilots of colour," but not one black pilot who had financed his own route, in fact I have never flown with a black pilot, cause they just seem to skip the route I am on. (non airline)
IMHO you cannot force intergration or quota's they need to happen over time, and doing so will be the downfall of any gathering, institution or Nation.
Gatvol
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On contract getting on for 12 years now. Still waiting for that break...
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I think that if all you high and mighty SAA pilots leave management will still be able to replace you with other pilots who will take the oppurtunity to get onto the big time. So don't think you are indispensable.
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I think that if all you high and mighty SAA pilots leave management will still be able to replace you with other pilots who will take the oppurtunity to get onto the big time. So don't think you are indispensable.
Don't know why honestly I've lowered myself to reply as after all I am high and mighty.
Then again there is always one..!!!!
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Gotta love the law of supply and demand. Right now, no shortage of supply.
Sorry guys, don't see SAA closing down if a few jump ship. Still say the number of pilots that will actually leave will be rather small.
Very hard for a guy in his late 40's, who is a captain on 738's, sell up and be a FO at Qantas. Its only the FO's with young families that would look at the middle east or australasia.
Sorry guys, don't see SAA closing down if a few jump ship. Still say the number of pilots that will actually leave will be rather small.
Very hard for a guy in his late 40's, who is a captain on 738's, sell up and be a FO at Qantas. Its only the FO's with young families that would look at the middle east or australasia.
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My best day at SAA
Since having resigned from SAA and leaving in two weeks, my life has been chaotic. The stress on my family has been huge. Having second thoughts, I kept telling myself that, “the right decision isn’t always the easiest one”
Last week I attended a road show by our CEO and upper management. I was a little concerned that maybe there was a really positive announcement and it would just be my bad luck that I have now resigned. I tried to be as objective as possible, tried to avoid chatting to the doomsayers, tried my best to be an outsider looking in. I wanted to forget about the detail and just try and concentrate on the overall impression – Do my leaders inspire me? Do I have long term confidence in management? What is the vision for SAA?
As I sat there, listening to my colleagues fighting for their survival, I can’t describe to you the inner peace that swept over me. I won’t be a part of this anymore. As I drove home, a more relaxed man, I realized that this time, the right decision is also the easiest one.
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I wish you all the best. Not sure what airline you are off to next, but please be sure to keep us up to date with the NEW crap u have to deal with.
I kinda find it funny, the boss says 'guys, we have to make money, its a business' and now its like its the end of the world.
I kinda find it funny, the boss says 'guys, we have to make money, its a business' and now its like its the end of the world.
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Duckingfast...good on you mate.
Moving is not easy but I can only tell you that once you leave you will feel all of the stress of SA lift. You will be surprised on how all of the aggression, crime and all of the other bull is being carried on your shoulders.
It will take time for you and your family to settle, usually the kids settle quicker, within a year you will looking back and only remember the good parts of life in SA...and wondering if Jetnut will be turning off the lights.
cheers and good luck
Moving is not easy but I can only tell you that once you leave you will feel all of the stress of SA lift. You will be surprised on how all of the aggression, crime and all of the other bull is being carried on your shoulders.
It will take time for you and your family to settle, usually the kids settle quicker, within a year you will looking back and only remember the good parts of life in SA...and wondering if Jetnut will be turning off the lights.
cheers and good luck
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Just to throw my hat in the ring to this rather round and round debate. SAA won't close its doors "mass exodus" or not. There are plenty of pilots able to fill the boots of those leaving and this attitude that the resignees are "indispensable" is total nonsense- i'm no fan of SAA but grow up chaps-you may think you are sky gods but sadly without your "Airline cap" you're just like the rest of us!!
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Shockwave you sound about as informed as the esteemed management at SAA, let me ask you do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Avi8tor same goes for you, as I have said the ones who know what is going on are the people working at SAA and dealing with this crap day in and day out......ie myself and the rest of the poor SAA pilots who post here and try to enlighten you on the current problems, I dont post about problems at Emirates Avi8tor because I have no idea of the true story there.
While I agree that no one is indispensable, perhaps you could explain how in your small mind SAA could survive the following scenario......at present almost everyone I have spoken to is looking at alternative employment, lets assume management push too far and 50% of the pilots leave, thats 400 pilots, SAA is currently very short of pilots, so you can stop all operations until SAA finds new crew, where are they going to find new crew? I am not sure if Comair, Nationwide and 1 time combined have 400 pilots between them, not withstanding that these 3 airlines would not allow there pilots to leave like that without a fight, looks anti-competative to me and we know how SAA got shafted last time.
So assuming 50% leave, I am betting many of that number will be from the training dept, so there will be no way to train crew for a start, so they will have to outsource......an extreamly costly business, even if the training dept does not close down, it takes a good 3 months to train an experienced pilot on a new type like the airbus......which only SAA operate in SA, and that is very close to the training done in Toulouse, not the 3 day wonder course they perform in the ****ty airlines you work for
So please......enlighten me where these pilots are coming from, in case you have not noticed SA is at the height of a massive crime wave and most people are questioning the wisdom of staying here
That said, how much money do you think SAA will loose while operations cease for 1 week, 2 weeks......a month.
Avi8tor I work at SAA I am there virually every day....things are serious, if management push just that little bit I can definitley see a mass exodus.
Shockwave I wish you no luck in your career, I hope that one day when you get to where you want to be you will have some young pes wishing the demise of your career, pretty much like you seem to be doing to the pilot at SAA
Avi8tor same goes for you, as I have said the ones who know what is going on are the people working at SAA and dealing with this crap day in and day out......ie myself and the rest of the poor SAA pilots who post here and try to enlighten you on the current problems, I dont post about problems at Emirates Avi8tor because I have no idea of the true story there.
While I agree that no one is indispensable, perhaps you could explain how in your small mind SAA could survive the following scenario......at present almost everyone I have spoken to is looking at alternative employment, lets assume management push too far and 50% of the pilots leave, thats 400 pilots, SAA is currently very short of pilots, so you can stop all operations until SAA finds new crew, where are they going to find new crew? I am not sure if Comair, Nationwide and 1 time combined have 400 pilots between them, not withstanding that these 3 airlines would not allow there pilots to leave like that without a fight, looks anti-competative to me and we know how SAA got shafted last time.
So assuming 50% leave, I am betting many of that number will be from the training dept, so there will be no way to train crew for a start, so they will have to outsource......an extreamly costly business, even if the training dept does not close down, it takes a good 3 months to train an experienced pilot on a new type like the airbus......which only SAA operate in SA, and that is very close to the training done in Toulouse, not the 3 day wonder course they perform in the ****ty airlines you work for
So please......enlighten me where these pilots are coming from, in case you have not noticed SA is at the height of a massive crime wave and most people are questioning the wisdom of staying here
That said, how much money do you think SAA will loose while operations cease for 1 week, 2 weeks......a month.
Avi8tor I work at SAA I am there virually every day....things are serious, if management push just that little bit I can definitley see a mass exodus.
Shockwave I wish you no luck in your career, I hope that one day when you get to where you want to be you will have some young p
es wishing the demise of your career, pretty much like you seem to be doing to the pilot at SAA
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Speculation and guesses are FREE! The only people who are qualified to comment on the situation in SAA are the people who are exposed to the issues on a daily basis. My respect to the guys and gals who put up with the uncertainty daily, and still put their best foot forward and still deliver a safe and professional ride.
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Fluffyfan-now deep breath sport-you're going to blow something. Thanks for assuming that "I'm some young ps" -I like the young part anyway!! Sadly not though and as to "wishing the demise" of the careers of any pilot be they SAA or other that is just laughable!I simply made the observation that should there be a mass exodus of pilots from SAA they are replacable-no major airline has ever closed its doors because a few crew left!!
As for the "I wish you no luck in your career" comment it is more reminiscent of a spoilt child than a professional pilot!!! Good thing is at least if my career does turn to st I 'll know who to blame now won't I?
s" -I like the young part anyway!! Sadly not though and as to "wishing the demise" of the careers of any pilot be they SAA or other that is just laughable!I simply made the observation that should there be a mass exodus of pilots from SAA they are replacable-no major airline has ever closed its doors because a few crew left!!As for the "I wish you no luck in your career" comment it is more reminiscent of a spoilt child than a professional pilot!!! Good thing is at least if my career does turn to s
t I 'll know who to blame now won't I?