All recruitment at SAA on hold (The world according to JetNut thread)
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"FF - the SAA pilots and Cabin Crew are probably the only people who have a vested interest in the future of SAA, everyone else is just there to rape and pillage and take what they can get."
Oh please FF, this is such BS..........Your statement is so typical "SAA (cabin) crew" almost neurotic. Maybe it's because the flying crew are so isolated from the rest of the company that they truly believe everybody else in the company is going all out to "get" them.............It's not true my friend.
The “other” staff are also working very hard to keep SAA going, each and everyone fearing the "chop" coming their way.....all of them important to the future of the company. Yes you have "dead wood" in all levels believing SAA owing them a living because of what ever reason. Your pale staff believing they are going to be on the forefront of the “chop” and your darker staff believing they’re “untouchable” both attitudes not conducive to a healthy work force.
You are all in this together and should stick together, if anybody out there believes about 3000 SAA staff just sitting around without work, you are very, very wrong assuming this. The cut will come, but I doubt if it will be that high.
Yes the SAA staff compliment could be leaner and “meaner” but working in SA everybody knows that the planning on paper does not necessary reflect the actual working conditions and worker tendencies. I believe sick leave, AWOL and transport “problems” being the more serious issues facing your company. How can you “cut” your workforce to be lean while keeping transformation on track and expecting operations to continue without any delays?
Heard from a friend of a friend of a friend………..a rumour really, that the subsistence allowances will be addressed shortly, Seabury want to drastically reduce your daily subsistence allowances.
You’re in for a rough patch and I do hope all my friends at SAA will be untouched but I seriously doubt it…………
E
PS CL……….
Oh please FF, this is such BS..........Your statement is so typical "SAA (cabin) crew" almost neurotic. Maybe it's because the flying crew are so isolated from the rest of the company that they truly believe everybody else in the company is going all out to "get" them.............It's not true my friend.
The “other” staff are also working very hard to keep SAA going, each and everyone fearing the "chop" coming their way.....all of them important to the future of the company. Yes you have "dead wood" in all levels believing SAA owing them a living because of what ever reason. Your pale staff believing they are going to be on the forefront of the “chop” and your darker staff believing they’re “untouchable” both attitudes not conducive to a healthy work force.
You are all in this together and should stick together, if anybody out there believes about 3000 SAA staff just sitting around without work, you are very, very wrong assuming this. The cut will come, but I doubt if it will be that high.
Yes the SAA staff compliment could be leaner and “meaner” but working in SA everybody knows that the planning on paper does not necessary reflect the actual working conditions and worker tendencies. I believe sick leave, AWOL and transport “problems” being the more serious issues facing your company. How can you “cut” your workforce to be lean while keeping transformation on track and expecting operations to continue without any delays?
Heard from a friend of a friend of a friend………..a rumour really, that the subsistence allowances will be addressed shortly, Seabury want to drastically reduce your daily subsistence allowances.
You’re in for a rough patch and I do hope all my friends at SAA will be untouched but I seriously doubt it…………
E
PS CL……….
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What are the consultants paid?
Does anybody out there know what the consultants
are charging? Are they earning a commision based on what
they find or are they on a flat rate?
Cheers
are charging? Are they earning a commision based on what
they find or are they on a flat rate?
Cheers
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We live in a country where people are on strike demanding they be paid out for sick days not taken. WTF?!
The attitude of entitlement will turn this into another goatscrew with productive workers being laid off and deadwood promoted. Those who keep the show on the road with their hard work and dedication will once again get the shaft while upper management grows ever more top heavy and less in touch with reality as the gravy train fills up. They have a chance to turn things around and make it work but I'm not holding my breath. It would be nice to be pleasantly surprised for a change, though...
Cynical? Moi...?
The attitude of entitlement will turn this into another goatscrew with productive workers being laid off and deadwood promoted. Those who keep the show on the road with their hard work and dedication will once again get the shaft while upper management grows ever more top heavy and less in touch with reality as the gravy train fills up. They have a chance to turn things around and make it work but I'm not holding my breath. It would be nice to be pleasantly surprised for a change, though...Cynical? Moi...?
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Yes the SAA staff compliment could be leaner and “meaner” but working in SA everybody knows that the planning on paper does not necessary reflect the actual working conditions and worker tendencies. I believe sick leave, AWOL and transport “problems” being the more serious issues facing your company. How can you “cut” your workforce to be lean while keeping transformation on track and expecting operations to continue without any delays?
At some time in the negotiation process the unions are going to recognise that they can stall and demand to see all manner of documentation- that will gladly be provided- but fundamentally they are going to loose some comrades in this struggle. To cut the number who are going to go, they are already intimating that they are willing to make concessions in terms of benefits- even certain changes to their conditions of employment. Then it will be time to talk sick leave etc.
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How to save money
What is fairly amusing is that Khaya chose to share his plan for saving costs and restructuring SAA at the ASATA Congress in Muldersdrift this past weekend. 300 people attended, only 1 arrived in a helicopter.
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Real shocker- there are all the SAA sales people waiting for the boss on Thursday morning 09h00, so one of them asks him: "So Khaya, glad to see you made it through all that traffic", Khaya: "what traffic, used the helicopter to get here!" and he continued: “ its because I’m off to a meeting in Pretoria soon as I’m done” no one bothered to inform his highness that the Krugersdorp freeway is very quite that time of the day!!!This is the same guy who at the top 100 manager’s meeting was giving the “we have to cut costs- no discretionary expenditure” etc etc. Wonder who signed off his purchase request at the cash conservation office- makes the whole thing a farce.
This guy just does not live in the real world.
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Why shocked or surprised ? The chopper saga never stopped, rumour has it that the chopper does the pickup & drop off runs from the ARWYP heli pad.......not in SAA Technical as usual....away from those nosy SAA worker types......
E
E
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Famous Quotes from Fluffyfan:-
“OK JG1 .. I am sure you will get a A340 command as soon as they learn you are out there, how shortsighted of SAA not to have you on the payrole, who needs a seniority list”
Fluffyfan, it’s ok thanks, I don’t need an A340 command. I’m quite happy with mine.
“please tell me you dont suscribe to JG1's point of view, it sounds like he is advocating that we fire half the pilots at SAA because they are horribly overpaid, the solution is to hire young guys like himself who are willing to work for a third of the salary”
JG1 actually said that the SAA pilots salaries are completely out of line with the rest of the industry in South Africa and suggested that if SAA pilots weren’t happy with taking pay cuts then plenty of local pilots would be happy to take over their jobs at the new pay scales.
“JG1 you are an asset to your company VB must have a little chuckle every time he is buying a new sports car or when he is having a drink on the balcony of his mansion, he must be extreamly happy he has guys like you in the company, no labour problems, you must think the Nationwide salaries are quite adequate, how did you get in did you stand at the Nationwide HQ with a sign saying "Will Fly For Food"?”
Sorry, you are ‘extreamly’ wrong, Fluff.
“I am really not going to discuss the seniority list system”
We didn’t ask you to. We weren’t discussing it. We were discussing pay scales.
“SAA guys are paid well, but is it too much or are the rest of the airline guys in SA paid to little? the only reason SAA salaries are where they are, is that the pilots at SAA have stood together with 100% membership to the union and demanded a fair wage.”
Ever heard of market forces? Funny how all the airlines in SA except SAA pay relatively equal salaries, but SAA stands out like a sore thumb at double what all the other guys are getting. SAAPA did demand, they held the airline to ransom, and got their demands. Only because SAA is government-funded did they get their demands – in a market-driven private airline they would have been shown a toffee themselves.
“SAA (pilots) salaries are but a drop in the ocean of the airline expenses”
Sure, at about R700 million a year?
“Thats it I will comment no more on the salaries, I am done trying to make you guys understand”
Wow, gee thanks for deigning to grace us with your most enlightened teachings, master. I am sure we will miss your youthful arrogant ignorance…..not.
Its been suggested that if SAA did cut salaries then the pilots would all flock elsewhere – I can’t see that happening. Where would they go? With no EU passports, no Green Cards, their options are to come to the Middle East, go to China or India – big moves for settled family men.
The facts are that SAA is a loss-making organization and that cuts have to be made at ALL levels, including the pilot pool. And the fact is that the SAA pilot pool has a lot of fat which can be safely trimmed from their salaries. And as I said earlier, if they don't like it, then there are plenty of other guys in SA who are competent enough, in many cases fly the same aircraft, to do their jobs at the cut price. Sorry if the truth hurts
“OK JG1 .. I am sure you will get a A340 command as soon as they learn you are out there, how shortsighted of SAA not to have you on the payrole, who needs a seniority list”
Fluffyfan, it’s ok thanks, I don’t need an A340 command. I’m quite happy with mine.
“please tell me you dont suscribe to JG1's point of view, it sounds like he is advocating that we fire half the pilots at SAA because they are horribly overpaid, the solution is to hire young guys like himself who are willing to work for a third of the salary”
JG1 actually said that the SAA pilots salaries are completely out of line with the rest of the industry in South Africa and suggested that if SAA pilots weren’t happy with taking pay cuts then plenty of local pilots would be happy to take over their jobs at the new pay scales.
“JG1 you are an asset to your company VB must have a little chuckle every time he is buying a new sports car or when he is having a drink on the balcony of his mansion, he must be extreamly happy he has guys like you in the company, no labour problems, you must think the Nationwide salaries are quite adequate, how did you get in did you stand at the Nationwide HQ with a sign saying "Will Fly For Food"?”
Sorry, you are ‘extreamly’ wrong, Fluff.
“I am really not going to discuss the seniority list system”
We didn’t ask you to. We weren’t discussing it. We were discussing pay scales.
“SAA guys are paid well, but is it too much or are the rest of the airline guys in SA paid to little? the only reason SAA salaries are where they are, is that the pilots at SAA have stood together with 100% membership to the union and demanded a fair wage.”
Ever heard of market forces? Funny how all the airlines in SA except SAA pay relatively equal salaries, but SAA stands out like a sore thumb at double what all the other guys are getting. SAAPA did demand, they held the airline to ransom, and got their demands. Only because SAA is government-funded did they get their demands – in a market-driven private airline they would have been shown a toffee themselves.
“SAA (pilots) salaries are but a drop in the ocean of the airline expenses”
Sure, at about R700 million a year?
“Thats it I will comment no more on the salaries, I am done trying to make you guys understand”
Wow, gee thanks for deigning to grace us with your most enlightened teachings, master. I am sure we will miss your youthful arrogant ignorance…..not.
Its been suggested that if SAA did cut salaries then the pilots would all flock elsewhere – I can’t see that happening. Where would they go? With no EU passports, no Green Cards, their options are to come to the Middle East, go to China or India – big moves for settled family men.
The facts are that SAA is a loss-making organization and that cuts have to be made at ALL levels, including the pilot pool. And the fact is that the SAA pilot pool has a lot of fat which can be safely trimmed from their salaries. And as I said earlier, if they don't like it, then there are plenty of other guys in SA who are competent enough, in many cases fly the same aircraft, to do their jobs at the cut price. Sorry if the truth hurts
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SAA considers break-up, sale
27/03/2007 12:29
Johannesburg - The head of state-owned South African Airways said on Tuesday that he wants to break up the company and slash costs to help return it to profit, and may then sell some units.
Chief Executive Khaya Ngqula told a news briefing the airline would announce a restructuring plan in April, after sliding to a loss this financial year.
He said the company expects to lose more than R650m in the year to end March.
"We want to simplify the business by splitting up the company and creating clear profit targets for every unit," Ngqula said. "Some sections of the business might be privatised."
The company, which said it spent more than R20bn a year on staff perks and other discretionary items, said it would look at ways of cutting costs to help return it to profit.
SAA posted a 90% fall in profit last year as fuel costs rocketed and said it would only consider selling shares when it had reduced its debts.
South African privatisations have stalled over the past few years, with the government opting to use state entities to ramp up spending on infrastructure and help drive economic growth.
South Africa's public enterprises minister said in January an initial public offering of SAA could be years away and that the government had no plans to bail out the struggling airline.
27/03/2007 12:29
Johannesburg - The head of state-owned South African Airways said on Tuesday that he wants to break up the company and slash costs to help return it to profit, and may then sell some units.
Chief Executive Khaya Ngqula told a news briefing the airline would announce a restructuring plan in April, after sliding to a loss this financial year.
He said the company expects to lose more than R650m in the year to end March.
"We want to simplify the business by splitting up the company and creating clear profit targets for every unit," Ngqula said. "Some sections of the business might be privatised."
The company, which said it spent more than R20bn a year on staff perks and other discretionary items, said it would look at ways of cutting costs to help return it to profit.
SAA posted a 90% fall in profit last year as fuel costs rocketed and said it would only consider selling shares when it had reduced its debts.
South African privatisations have stalled over the past few years, with the government opting to use state entities to ramp up spending on infrastructure and help drive economic growth.
South Africa's public enterprises minister said in January an initial public offering of SAA could be years away and that the government had no plans to bail out the struggling airline.
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""What is fairly amusing is that Khaya chose to share his plan for saving costs and restructuring SAA at the ASATA Congress in Muldersdrift this past weekend. 300 people attended, only 1 arrived in a helicopter.""
Khaya's spokesperson ,Sarah Uys claims that he paid for it from his own pocket???
Khaya's spokesperson ,Sarah Uys claims that he paid for it from his own pocket???
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702 news were going to run a story on how SAA is wanting to cut costs , retrench people etc while at the same time he is flying around Gauteng in a chopper going to various meetings. His spokesperson Sarah Uys claimed that he paid for the chopper himself.
Khaya then phone the head of news at 702 to tell him that there is no story to run as he paid for the chopper himself so the story was pulled.
Khaya then phone the head of news at 702 to tell him that there is no story to run as he paid for the chopper himself so the story was pulled.
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If Khaya paid for the chopper himself he must be on a serious
package! Now we all know that he is obviously being paid a
fortune, but does anybody know how much he is actually earning?
To charter a chopper for a work conference and pay for it
yourself, that puts you in another league
package! Now we all know that he is obviously being paid a
fortune, but does anybody know how much he is actually earning?
To charter a chopper for a work conference and pay for it
yourself, that puts you in another league
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Khaya then phone the head of news at 702 to tell him that there is no story to run as he paid for the chopper himself so the story was pulled.
It might be well possible that he does pay for the Chopper rides himself, or through one of his many other Businesses or Directorships.
Only days ago it was reported that he holds in the region of 38 Directorships (because of his "on-demand" skill)
I don't think he would be foolish enough to have SAA pay for these, maybe one of the others...
The real question here should be, that if SAA was his ONLY responsibillity, would he not be able to spend more than 3% of his time actually running the business, without having to forever swing-wing off to another appointment?
On the other hand, imagine the "damage" if he had more time to spend on/at SAA
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Solid Rust Twotter....
Pardon my interuption, but sick days are also mental health days and mental health days are just mini-vacations so why not get paid for the unused vacations days? Stay healthy, get paid for it....makes sense to me. Just pass the cost off to the damn customer like those corporate perks.
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Aaaaah JG1 was wondering when you would respond.
Maybe JG1, thats because SA salaries are completely out of line with the rest of the world, the SAAPA/SAA parity agreement takes a number of factors into account including the salaries of comair, Kenyan Airways, equivalent position in the market place and many many other factors, SAA is a fairly large airline flying all over the world, not a small 1 man operation with 2 767's flying to London and back, compare apples with apples my friend, or maybe you would like to compare SAA salaries with the Charter operators like Fedair?
You actually have very little idea of how things work at SAA, as I have said time and time again, SAAPA negotiates with SAA on these things, SAA is the second oldest airline in the world, the pilot group has had a long time to organise themselves and negotiate the fair wage we receive today, the only thing protecting the pilots from management in the Union. SAAPA has never held anyone to ransom, they have conducted themselves within the law of South Africa, and it has cost Millions in legal proceedings, it has all been done by the book.
You need to talk to a few of my mates flying for some of the other airlines in SA, see if they think there salaries are fair.
Oh dear what are we to do? where can highly experienced airline pilots get a job, especially nowdays. Oh and your statement "come to the Middle East" may have given you away, I hear the pilots are leaving in droves, all happy in the desert are we?
Now I am truly tired of discussing SAA salaries with you JG1, you obviously have a large chip on your shoulder and are horribly jealous........The old "I am not ok, therefore you are not ok scenario" do you do CRM at your airline/charter operation.............its enough now, you are starting to look like a tool.
JG1 actually said that the SAA pilots salaries are completely out of line with the rest of the industry in South Africa
Ever heard of market forces? Funny how all the airlines in SA except SAA pay relatively equal salaries, but SAA stands out like a sore thumb at double what all the other guys are getting. SAAPA did demand, they held the airline to ransom, and got their demands.
You need to talk to a few of my mates flying for some of the other airlines in SA, see if they think there salaries are fair.
Its been suggested that if SAA did cut salaries then the pilots would all flock elsewhere – I can’t see that happening. Where would they go? With no EU passports, no Green Cards, their options are to come to the Middle East, go to China or India – big moves for settled family men.
Now I am truly tired of discussing SAA salaries with you JG1, you obviously have a large chip on your shoulder and are horribly jealous........The old "I am not ok, therefore you are not ok scenario" do you do CRM at your airline/charter operation.............its enough now, you are starting to look like a tool.
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Champagne Lover...
You wonder why you never get the middle finger back? Because we wouldn't waste our time with an imbicile like you!!!
As to why you are not in the national airline...your language skills were probably not sufficient to get a suitable covering letter in, nevermind a CV.
As for your irreverence for passed fellow aviators who perished in situations you have no idea, grasp or understanding of...you probaby never were taught that by your father...oops sorry sore point!
As for your simulator time or lack of it...who needs a simulator when you have to cover emergencies every day as part of the job because you are flying barely airworthy aircraft.
Your lack of breeding and jealousy is as obvious as your lack of understanding of the meaning of the title of this thread.
I hope when you need our help, you aren't too bitter and twisted to ask...because we are professional enough to help any fellow pilot who needs it, and will put our feelings of revulsion against people like you aside.
So I hope your life improves pal!
You wonder why you never get the middle finger back? Because we wouldn't waste our time with an imbicile like you!!!
As to why you are not in the national airline...your language skills were probably not sufficient to get a suitable covering letter in, nevermind a CV.
As for your irreverence for passed fellow aviators who perished in situations you have no idea, grasp or understanding of...you probaby never were taught that by your father...oops sorry sore point!
As for your simulator time or lack of it...who needs a simulator when you have to cover emergencies every day as part of the job because you are flying barely airworthy aircraft.
Your lack of breeding and jealousy is as obvious as your lack of understanding of the meaning of the title of this thread.
I hope when you need our help, you aren't too bitter and twisted to ask...because we are professional enough to help any fellow pilot who needs it, and will put our feelings of revulsion against people like you aside.
So I hope your life improves pal!
Last edited by DD777; 28th Mar 2007 at 10:40.