Bush Pilot vs Airline Pilot
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this is a thread which is going no where, the question itself is quite pointless, either a 'bush pilot' subtley trying to make out they are better hands on flyers, or an airline pilot subtley trying to make out that 'bush pilots' arent as good as themselves...
either way, it is going now where...
either way, it is going now where...
Last edited by south coast; 18th Oct 2006 at 09:34.
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oh well then excuse me for trying to make light of a post that has gone south about two pages ago. QE2 ENVY's or whatever, relax bru. Pull up a chair and come and watch the Telly Tubbies with me.
THUNDERTAILED
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What is fun is mixing the two - going on contract with jet airliners. You get the training, the sims, you get to work for lots of operators in lots of countries - on a few occasions we have started their airlines for them, got them running, and then left them to carry on with it.
Some operators it's pure airline, they wet lease you and you are just an extension of their airline and everything is done for you, others want you to be, as 18left said 'the pilot, loadmaster, check in,engineer,dispatch,cabin crew,ops control,ticketing agent,cleaner,ground servicing agent,ramp coordinator, catering supervisor and sometimes even a.t.c.' which is challenging and you get to learn a lot.
The upside is, you get to operate in many different areas, including some of the nastier places on the planet like Afghanistan, Sudan & Iraq, so its not boring, we've operated from dirt strips, tin-pot 'airports', do lots of spiral approaches, VFR stuff one day in some strip in the Congo a few days later IFR into DXB or JNB maybe. The downside is, it's still a contract job and you're away from home but as far as forming great friendships with the other crews who you spend a lot of time with, and good, sometimes challenging flying, it can't be beaten
Some operators it's pure airline, they wet lease you and you are just an extension of their airline and everything is done for you, others want you to be, as 18left said 'the pilot, loadmaster, check in,engineer,dispatch,cabin crew,ops control,ticketing agent,cleaner,ground servicing agent,ramp coordinator, catering supervisor and sometimes even a.t.c.' which is challenging and you get to learn a lot.
The upside is, you get to operate in many different areas, including some of the nastier places on the planet like Afghanistan, Sudan & Iraq, so its not boring, we've operated from dirt strips, tin-pot 'airports', do lots of spiral approaches, VFR stuff one day in some strip in the Congo a few days later IFR into DXB or JNB maybe. The downside is, it's still a contract job and you're away from home but as far as forming great friendships with the other crews who you spend a lot of time with, and good, sometimes challenging flying, it can't be beaten
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Interesting thread. However with no real conclusions
I cannot speak for the airline pilot but from a bush flying instructor point of veiw I think its safe to state the obvious that so long as the "Airline Pilot" is also current in genuine hands on bush flying in light aircraft between his airline flying then he may be able to handle a "bush flying" situation as well as or better than the full time "Bush Pilot".
Real Bush Flying is mostly about flying small airplanes with decent STOL capabilities in remote and challenging areas of the bush. Not airliners!
Cheers
CC
I cannot speak for the airline pilot but from a bush flying instructor point of veiw I think its safe to state the obvious that so long as the "Airline Pilot" is also current in genuine hands on bush flying in light aircraft between his airline flying then he may be able to handle a "bush flying" situation as well as or better than the full time "Bush Pilot".
Real Bush Flying is mostly about flying small airplanes with decent STOL capabilities in remote and challenging areas of the bush. Not airliners!
Cheers
CC
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Not a bush or airline pilot...
I used to fly the bush in Canada, East Africa and now I fly airliners in the States.
Unequivocally the MOST talented pilot I know was a spray plane pilot in a former life!
I think that settles that!
Unequivocally the MOST talented pilot I know was a spray plane pilot in a former life!
I think that settles that!
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I messed up as kid and never had the chance of becoming a pilot in the RAF, so I joined the Army andto compensate my feeling of loss gain every land licence I could (+ a couple of sea licences too), I hve driven all types of motorbike, Artic trucks, double decker busses, 72 ton tanks.
I am just about to leave the forces and am seriously considering using my pension to pay for my PPL CPL etc but for me the whole point is to fly, I've been passenger in all types more times than I can count. The idea of getting a bush pilot job fills me with feelings that I have'nt had since I was a kid that said the odd chance to fly something big would be nice too, but all in all to be able to fly at all is what counts, big or small, bush or airline, it all has it pros and cons, however, experience can't be replaced by simulations or just plain education, it is an aid to providing a knowledge and basic skill level.
Each dedication requires its own skill set, some usefull, some not, I personally wouldn't even entertain the idea of trying to flying an airliner without buliding up to it, just like I never just went from my car test to driving a Challenger tank, I gained the peripheral experience required to do with driving in general. Its an odd comparison I know but the experience a Bush pilot can bring to an airline, even if its knowing exactly what the computer is dealing with when co-ords are punched in is better than taking it for granted.
I'm expecting to be shot down for this but I've seen the British Army dwindle over the years loosing alot of its experience and in turn having qualified soldiers with no experience left in their place and things just not working as they should be because all the good old tricks of the trade are being lost.
If I'm wrong then tell me, I have broad shoulders
I am just about to leave the forces and am seriously considering using my pension to pay for my PPL CPL etc but for me the whole point is to fly, I've been passenger in all types more times than I can count. The idea of getting a bush pilot job fills me with feelings that I have'nt had since I was a kid that said the odd chance to fly something big would be nice too, but all in all to be able to fly at all is what counts, big or small, bush or airline, it all has it pros and cons, however, experience can't be replaced by simulations or just plain education, it is an aid to providing a knowledge and basic skill level.
Each dedication requires its own skill set, some usefull, some not, I personally wouldn't even entertain the idea of trying to flying an airliner without buliding up to it, just like I never just went from my car test to driving a Challenger tank, I gained the peripheral experience required to do with driving in general. Its an odd comparison I know but the experience a Bush pilot can bring to an airline, even if its knowing exactly what the computer is dealing with when co-ords are punched in is better than taking it for granted.
I'm expecting to be shot down for this but I've seen the British Army dwindle over the years loosing alot of its experience and in turn having qualified soldiers with no experience left in their place and things just not working as they should be because all the good old tricks of the trade are being lost.
If I'm wrong then tell me, I have broad shoulders
I know this the Africa forum, but I.R. Pirate are you SSG Version 1-9 from the infamous V1 battle on TechLog??? Methinks so...........Axes grinding!!
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the better question!
i tend to think, as stated, that this is a question that can never be resolved!
the real question is, which is more fun- after all, who became a pilot to only pull a check at the end of the month?
having done both, i am most definitely of the opinion that bush flying beats airline flying hands down, both inside and outside the cockpit.
the real question is, which is more fun- after all, who became a pilot to only pull a check at the end of the month?
having done both, i am most definitely of the opinion that bush flying beats airline flying hands down, both inside and outside the cockpit.
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Agree with Nugpot attitude counts, pilot attitude that is . I am lucky to fly heavy jets in what I consider a bush pilot role, can be visual into some African strip with no approach aids at all and also into Atlanta , Orlando , Shanghai a few weeks later. Truthfully it helps if guys have the bush pilot experience in our operation, yet the way we operate we have strict SOP's etc and the benefit of 6 monthly sim rides. We are left a lot on our own as a crew and the dicipline of the airline environment has to interact with the freedom of decision making of the bush pilot, I believe we manage it quite well. A lot of approaches with crappy auto pilot and steam driven instruments, so bush pilots (or guys who have not flown electric jets) tend to shape better, just our operation, attitude counts!
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I think the real problem is, command skills! 
I've got a buddy that did the Oxford Aviation course that takes you from Zero hours and experience to be able to sit right seat of an A320/B737.. My friend now flies as P2 for a British Charter Airline and in a few years will become captain! So in all that time, I am wondering what decisions will he be able to make, and once he gains P1 status, what command skills will he have gained?!
I think the great thing about bush flying is not only the hands on experience, it's being able to make all those decisions that come with such a job!
I've got a buddy that did the Oxford Aviation course that takes you from Zero hours and experience to be able to sit right seat of an A320/B737.. My friend now flies as P2 for a British Charter Airline and in a few years will become captain! So in all that time, I am wondering what decisions will he be able to make, and once he gains P1 status, what command skills will he have gained?!
I think the great thing about bush flying is not only the hands on experience, it's being able to make all those decisions that come with such a job!
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Having flown the twotter in Africa from football fields to roads to the desert and now flying an Airliner from Europe, I think the best is to start out bush flying and then move to the airlines so you have the skills of the bush pilot enhanced by the technology of the Airline equipment and hopefully you get a pretty good handler (I exempt myself). I enjoy the rush of bush flying and i love the view of Airline operations. If you can do both you have it made.
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That MOST talented spray pilot --would it be Pete Crouch , ex-Kenya , Zim for the last 30 years ? I could spend hours watching him 'do' his stuff , last count nearly 20k hours , all spraying apart from a bit of Seneca flying out of Malindi in the 70s . He continued spraying throughout the Rhodesian bush war and had some VERY hairy moments !
Airline pilots ? Some of the best memories of the 'crossover' were while doing a couple of VC10 pilots conversion to the Navajo at Wilson after EAA went bust ! The flare heights were truly hilarious , but they soon got the hang of it and indeed brought some well needed discipline to the Bush regime.
Happy days
KK
Airline pilots ? Some of the best memories of the 'crossover' were while doing a couple of VC10 pilots conversion to the Navajo at Wilson after EAA went bust ! The flare heights were truly hilarious , but they soon got the hang of it and indeed brought some well needed discipline to the Bush regime.
Happy days
KK
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Flare Heights.................you should have seen the trouble I had after 13 years on Jumbo's trying to land the B777.....
So close to the ground and the lack of main wheels for stability in crosswinds.......................
So close to the ground and the lack of main wheels for stability in crosswinds.......................