Mango - all you need to know about it (threads merged)
Join Date: May 2005
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If Kulula or Nationwide wanted one then go ahead and contact the manufacturer….
see Comair are back in the market looking for “cheap” 734’s according to a post on avcom. One already arrived at SAT for repainting. About sums it up…suppose shouldn’t complain- more revenue for SAA technical- bring on those “cheap” planes guys!! lots of money to be made out of those D checks that are just around the corner!
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I believe the latest addition to their fleet, that will be maintained at the taxpayer’s expense, will be painted in the colours of the British Flag. At least Mr Novick is getting back some of his 250 mil that he says he pays in tax- hopefully, for his sake, SARS doesn’t decide to try and validate that claim he seems to be making… 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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GormanInkarnati
Care to give us some insight into the Rostering situation/rules @ Mango...
How many sectors per day versus flying days per month etc.
I know it's early days yet, but surely it's gotta be damn better than what the guys/girls at NTW are currently experiencing - if I understand a particular Thread properly..
Care to give us some insight into the Rostering situation/rules @ Mango...
How many sectors per day versus flying days per month etc.
I know it's early days yet, but surely it's gotta be damn better than what the guys/girls at NTW are currently experiencing - if I understand a particular Thread properly..
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If my memory serves me correctly they are going to use Pegasus which is the same system SAA uses, if that’s still the case then things should be organised- which they are going to need to be as their business case relies on very high levels of crew utilization.
Feasant Plucker
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Mango Load Factors
I hear the load factors are not that great - 80 pax to CT for example. This may be an exception, sure, but to be cost-effective a LCC should fill seats.......
For all the hype, the fares are not that cheap - check & compare.
M
For all the hype, the fares are not that cheap - check & compare.
M
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A lot has been said about this in recent times.
However, as when buying property, as the number of units (seats) sold out increases, so does the price of the remaining one's.
It is my understanding that this will explain why the seats currently still available on Mango (for the immediate future), are the more expensive one's. It goes without reason that not even Mango will operate a LCC with ALL seats going for R169...
Did a search, for specific dates, some months into 2007.
Herewith the results, listing cheapest FIRST and most expensive LAST:
1. Mango
2. SAA
3. Kulula
4. 1Time
5. Nationwide
However, as when buying property, as the number of units (seats) sold out increases, so does the price of the remaining one's.
It is my understanding that this will explain why the seats currently still available on Mango (for the immediate future), are the more expensive one's. It goes without reason that not even Mango will operate a LCC with ALL seats going for R169...
Did a search, for specific dates, some months into 2007.
Herewith the results, listing cheapest FIRST and most expensive LAST:
1. Mango
2. SAA
3. Kulula
4. 1Time
5. Nationwide
Feasant Plucker
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Well, if Mango flies with 80 pax, those are obviously the cheap seats; so the expensive (relatively) seats remain empty. How do you make money flying a 738 with 80xR169 seats filled, while the other 100+ are empty? Early days obviously; but, as per the table in Q4's post, SAA is offering good prices as well, and it is not easy to get a seat at short notice.........
As per most LCCs, the earlier you book the better. Tried Ryanair vs Aer Lingus a while ago, and AL came out cheaper as well. So the LCCs have their place, but are not always the cheapest!
It pays tp shop around...........
As per most LCCs, the earlier you book the better. Tried Ryanair vs Aer Lingus a while ago, and AL came out cheaper as well. So the LCCs have their place, but are not always the cheapest!
It pays tp shop around...........
Join Date: Oct 2004
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As per the Media Briefing during the launch of Mango, it was noted by Mr. B that only +/- 20% of first seats sold per flight will be at the rate of R169.
If I am not mistaken, then thereafter the prices start increasing on a sliding scale system, the next one's starting at R249 I think.
Thus @ 20% that means that only 37 seats per 738 will atleast be sold at R169 per ticket. Do not know the breakeven point for a 738, but guess the rest could possibly pick up the tab...
I know that on certain routes it could be possible to still make a profit with +/-35% Load Factor on the one sector, provided the next is better or full.
It does however vary from aircraft to aircraft and company to company.
However, thanks to Bill Gates and IE, shopping around always gives the "cheapest" seat, often even with drinks and a meal included...
If I am not mistaken, then thereafter the prices start increasing on a sliding scale system, the next one's starting at R249 I think.
Thus @ 20% that means that only 37 seats per 738 will atleast be sold at R169 per ticket. Do not know the breakeven point for a 738, but guess the rest could possibly pick up the tab...
I know that on certain routes it could be possible to still make a profit with +/-35% Load Factor on the one sector, provided the next is better or full.
It does however vary from aircraft to aircraft and company to company.
However, thanks to Bill Gates and IE, shopping around always gives the "cheapest" seat, often even with drinks and a meal included...
Join Date: May 2005
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The key reason why the LF is not sitting at 100% from day one is the lead time from sales opening to the first flight was only 2 weeks. If I compare this to the lead time for SAA bookings in the liesure and VFR market segments then I would say they have actually done a very good job in securing the loads they did. I very much doubt that less than 100% LF’s will bother them in November- the first 2 weeks is a shake down for the big push in December.
TULCA
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3 mil a week
Mango 'costs taxpayers R3m/wk'
29/11/2006 08:06
Johannesburg - South African listed airline group Comair (COM) estimates that South African Airways' new low cost carrier Mango is costing taxpayers over three million rand a week.
Comair joint CEO Erik Venter based these calculations on an all inclusive cost of R60 000 per flight between Johannesburg and Cape Town.
"With their flights only 50% full, their revenue per flight won't even cover their fuel and maintenance costs," Venter said in a statement on Wednesday.
He went on to question how much SAA's attempt to "nationalise" the local aviation industry was ultimately going to cost South African taxpayers.
Eleven days ago, Comair requested an undertaking from SAA not to put any further capital into Mango following the R100m that has already been sunk into the project. To date the undertaking has not been forthcoming, the statement said.
Even though Comair was able to run kulula.com profitably from day one, Mango has indicated that it expects a two-year grace period in which to turn a profit, he noted.
Comair runs British Airways locally and kulula.com.
Mango took to the skies on November 15 with an initial fleet of four Boeing 737 800s - an aircraft favoured by global local cost carriers for its reliability, safety record and fuel efficiency.
The airline was expecting to operate 28 flights a day once its full schedule was on the go.
Initially the airline planned to fly the Johannesburg-Durban and Johannesburg-Cape Town routes, but will add the Durban-Bloemfontein and Bloemfontein-Cape Town routes in December.
29/11/2006 08:06
Johannesburg - South African listed airline group Comair (COM) estimates that South African Airways' new low cost carrier Mango is costing taxpayers over three million rand a week.
Comair joint CEO Erik Venter based these calculations on an all inclusive cost of R60 000 per flight between Johannesburg and Cape Town.
"With their flights only 50% full, their revenue per flight won't even cover their fuel and maintenance costs," Venter said in a statement on Wednesday.
He went on to question how much SAA's attempt to "nationalise" the local aviation industry was ultimately going to cost South African taxpayers.
Eleven days ago, Comair requested an undertaking from SAA not to put any further capital into Mango following the R100m that has already been sunk into the project. To date the undertaking has not been forthcoming, the statement said.
Even though Comair was able to run kulula.com profitably from day one, Mango has indicated that it expects a two-year grace period in which to turn a profit, he noted.
Comair runs British Airways locally and kulula.com.
Mango took to the skies on November 15 with an initial fleet of four Boeing 737 800s - an aircraft favoured by global local cost carriers for its reliability, safety record and fuel efficiency.
The airline was expecting to operate 28 flights a day once its full schedule was on the go.
Initially the airline planned to fly the Johannesburg-Durban and Johannesburg-Cape Town routes, but will add the Durban-Bloemfontein and Bloemfontein-Cape Town routes in December.
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Just for info. I was looking for a ticket dep JHB 26 Dec to CPT and return on 4 Jan.
Here from cheapest to most expensive:
1.BA
2.SAA
3.Kulula
4.Mango
5.1time
6.Nationwide
Now the question is, if you really want the cheap tickets you have to book way in advance.This is already a month in advance.Considering it's the festive season, why are you a LCC when you cant live up to the reputation?
CW
Here from cheapest to most expensive:
1.BA
2.SAA
3.Kulula
4.Mango
5.1time
6.Nationwide
Now the question is, if you really want the cheap tickets you have to book way in advance.This is already a month in advance.Considering it's the festive season, why are you a LCC when you cant live up to the reputation?
CW
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The LCC's are fighting each other at the moment and so have sold off almost everything they are prepared to do at the rock bottom prices- same goes for Nationwide. Anything thats left they need to make a few more bucks out of. SAA and BA have been watching from the sidelines while the LCC's and Nationwide have a go at each other, now that most of the dust has settled they are going to move whatever inventory they have left to customers who missed the boat.
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ChooperHie you have just experienced what is common in US & Europe. The prices advertised are the cheapest you can get, the rest of the seats are subject to the black art of revenue management.
Ryanair, easyjet etc are always being hauled in front of advert standards commission for their adverts.
If you want the cheap ticket book well in advance and always shop around(last year I did get a Ryanair 10 euro flight, for the first time, from Standstead to Biarritz but i booked six months in advance and flew mid week)
and the next week amazingly KLM was the cheapest to Amsterdam.
Kulula do specials, they come available midnight and sold out by 2am, people stay up for this.
Best advise is subscribe to the website for notication emails of specials(saa voyager is good for this)
It the ultimate supply and demand system (midweek, outside of school holidays, midday a good time for cheapies. If you want Friday evening to CPT pay up or shut up)
Competition is good for the customer but you must shop around.
Ryanair, easyjet etc are always being hauled in front of advert standards commission for their adverts.
If you want the cheap ticket book well in advance and always shop around(last year I did get a Ryanair 10 euro flight, for the first time, from Standstead to Biarritz but i booked six months in advance and flew mid week)
and the next week amazingly KLM was the cheapest to Amsterdam.
Kulula do specials, they come available midnight and sold out by 2am, people stay up for this.
Best advise is subscribe to the website for notication emails of specials(saa voyager is good for this)
It the ultimate supply and demand system (midweek, outside of school holidays, midday a good time for cheapies. If you want Friday evening to CPT pay up or shut up)
Competition is good for the customer but you must shop around.
Join Date: May 2006
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Forgetting about who's right or who's wrong, let me tell you what happened the other day when I went to visit my Dad in the old-age home. The staff asked me to come to the staff room so they could ask me a few questions. Not knowing what to expect, I was bowled over by their questions. As I am in the industry they thought I would be able to help them! They wanted to go as a group on this "mango" and sleep over on the station, I presume they meant the airport, for the night and come back the next day so they can also see what it is like to fly!
There-in lies the rub, people want cheap and affordable travel and people who never ever thought they would fly can do so now!
So let's hope this LCC will sort itself out and the people benefit.
There-in lies the rub, people want cheap and affordable travel and people who never ever thought they would fly can do so now!
So let's hope this LCC will sort itself out and the people benefit.
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Mr Jetpilot, you know woman...not happy unless they b#*&$ and moan ......if something did not go "boom", "crash" or "whoof" almost a non event.........must be the profesional pilots that saved the day!!!!!!!
E
PS - Please don't let her fly to the East or the Americas, the flight will be over the sea for a very long time!!
PSS - Will anybody tell the drivers of the THREE fire engines to stop driving around the aircraft, they are making the pax nervous.
PSSS - I wonder who told the pax to go to the SAA standby counter? Mhhhhhh.........Those incompetent Mango staff
......if something did not go "boom", "crash" or "whoof" almost a non event.........must be the profesional pilots that saved the day!!!!!!!E
PS - Please don't let her fly to the East or the Americas, the flight will be over the sea for a very long time!!
PSS - Will anybody tell the drivers of the THREE fire engines to stop driving around the aircraft, they are making the pax nervous.
PSSS - I wonder who told the pax to go to the SAA standby counter? Mhhhhhh.........Those incompetent Mango staff
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"flying over the sea for so long" (ie: fuel dump),
Since Mango fly 737-800's.............this aircraft type is not equipped with such a facility!
Anyway it most likely had to fly over the sea.......
1.to remain clear of other traffic....whilst the problem had to be attended to.
2. To burn off fuel in order to land within acceptable landing weight limits.
Ummmmm......!!!!!!
Since Mango fly 737-800's.............this aircraft type is not equipped with such a facility!
Anyway it most likely had to fly over the sea.......
1.to remain clear of other traffic....whilst the problem had to be attended to.
2. To burn off fuel in order to land within acceptable landing weight limits.
Ummmmm......!!!!!!
Last edited by beechbum; 4th Dec 2006 at 17:38.
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If the crew were happy to waste time burning off fuel, one can more than likely accept that the problem was not too serious, because, if it was, ie. life threatening, landing weights dont mean anything, and airspace is cleared very quickly for you.