Mango - all you need to know about it (threads merged)
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Jhb to CT for R200 on Mango
30/10/2006 13:36
Johannesburg - Aircraft flights between Johannesburg and Cape Town will cost roughly R200 until the end of December onboard South Africa's new domestic airline, Mango, it was announced in Johannesburg on Monday.
Prices were expected to rise by only 20% in the new year, said Mango's newly appointed chief executive officer Nico Bezuidenhout.
The airline, operated as a subsidiary of South African Airways, only has two aircraft, but hopes to be operating two more by December.
It is aiming to fly between Johannesburg and Cape Town 28 times a day by December with flights also planned between Durban and Bloemfontein, and Bloemfontein and Cape Town in the future.
A "true" low-cost carrier, Mango would provide a travel opportunity for many of those South Africans who had never flown before, Bezuidenhout said.
30/10/2006 13:36
Johannesburg - Aircraft flights between Johannesburg and Cape Town will cost roughly R200 until the end of December onboard South Africa's new domestic airline, Mango, it was announced in Johannesburg on Monday.
Prices were expected to rise by only 20% in the new year, said Mango's newly appointed chief executive officer Nico Bezuidenhout.
The airline, operated as a subsidiary of South African Airways, only has two aircraft, but hopes to be operating two more by December.
It is aiming to fly between Johannesburg and Cape Town 28 times a day by December with flights also planned between Durban and Bloemfontein, and Bloemfontein and Cape Town in the future.
A "true" low-cost carrier, Mango would provide a travel opportunity for many of those South Africans who had never flown before, Bezuidenhout said.
Quite keen to seen 2 (or even 4) aircraft do 28 flights between JNB and CPT in 1 day.
Last edited by FUG; 30th Oct 2006 at 12:05.
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Fug, its 28 sectors, ie 2 aircraft doing 7 rotations per day.
With their utilization of 4 aircraft they will have 15% of the available capacity in the domestic market by December.
With their utilization of 4 aircraft they will have 15% of the available capacity in the domestic market by December.
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28 sectors at day between JNB & CPT with 4 a/c!! I doubt that would leave any room for any BFN routes. Even if each a/c did 3 rotations it would mean a utilisation figure of around 13 hours.
What kind of turn times are they planning for?
What kind of turn times are they planning for?
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Mango to charge R200
Here we go boys and girls.....
SAA's Mango to charge R200
Mon, 30 Oct 2006
Flights between Johannesburg and Cape Town will cost about R200 until the end of December onboard South Africa's new domestic airline, Mango, it was announced in Johannesburg on Monday.
"We are getting South Africans to travel," said Mango's newly-appointed chief executive officer Nico Bezuidenhout.
He said online ticket bookings would open at midnight on www.flymango.com and telephone bookings at 5.30am on Tuesday on 08611-MANGO.
The airline's first flight would be on November 15.
Lower than market
Bezuidenhout expected ticket prices later on to remain 20 percent lower than anything else on the market.
Mango was also looking at creative ways for people to pay for tickets — including via retail clothing or food companies. Those details would be made known in a few weeks.
He said the airline was leasing two Boeing 737 800s from South African Airways at the moment.
Its fleet would expand to four aircraft by December, when the carrier hoped to be operating 28 flights a day between Johannesburg and Cape Town.
It planned to extend its service to flights between Durban and Bloemfontein, and Bloemfontein and Cape Town by later next year.
"If consumer demand exists, we will expand these routes," said Bezuidenhout, who brings to the operating his ticketing experience gleaned at SAA, as Chief Operating Officer at Ticketweb, and as a director of Africa Concession Management.
Carrying more passengers
He said Mango's aircraft would put in 12-and-a-half hours flying time a day, carrying 186 passengers at a time — substantially more than its competitors.
They have cried foul, complaining that Mango — run by a subsidiary of SAA — is unfair competition and that SA Express is supposed to be SAA's low-cost carrier.
However, Mango's new board stressed that it complied with competition regulations and questioned detractors' "motivation".
Mango would provide a travel opportunity for many South Africans who had never flown before, Bezuidenhout said.
He said that even though the aircraft would be putting in long hours, they were "new generation"; safe and reliable.
They would be flown by pilots with on average 15 years' experience and maintained by SAA's technical services.
"At no point in time will (we) compromise safety," he said.
Lease agreement with SAA
Although the high flying times would contribute to cost savings, Mango would be so much cheaper primarily because the aircraft being used were ten percent more fuel efficient that the others in use and because of the higher seat density.
Snacks and drinks would be for sale on board and excess baggage, billable.
Bezuidenhout would not go into detail about Mango's lease agreement with SAA, but said it was based on "market rates", as was the provision of technical services.
He said Mango was an independent company. The extent of SAA's involvement was a R100-million shareholders' loan.
Sapa
SAA's Mango to charge R200
Mon, 30 Oct 2006
Flights between Johannesburg and Cape Town will cost about R200 until the end of December onboard South Africa's new domestic airline, Mango, it was announced in Johannesburg on Monday.
"We are getting South Africans to travel," said Mango's newly-appointed chief executive officer Nico Bezuidenhout.
He said online ticket bookings would open at midnight on www.flymango.com and telephone bookings at 5.30am on Tuesday on 08611-MANGO.
The airline's first flight would be on November 15.
Lower than market
Bezuidenhout expected ticket prices later on to remain 20 percent lower than anything else on the market.
Mango was also looking at creative ways for people to pay for tickets — including via retail clothing or food companies. Those details would be made known in a few weeks.
He said the airline was leasing two Boeing 737 800s from South African Airways at the moment.
Its fleet would expand to four aircraft by December, when the carrier hoped to be operating 28 flights a day between Johannesburg and Cape Town.
It planned to extend its service to flights between Durban and Bloemfontein, and Bloemfontein and Cape Town by later next year.
"If consumer demand exists, we will expand these routes," said Bezuidenhout, who brings to the operating his ticketing experience gleaned at SAA, as Chief Operating Officer at Ticketweb, and as a director of Africa Concession Management.
Carrying more passengers
He said Mango's aircraft would put in 12-and-a-half hours flying time a day, carrying 186 passengers at a time — substantially more than its competitors.
They have cried foul, complaining that Mango — run by a subsidiary of SAA — is unfair competition and that SA Express is supposed to be SAA's low-cost carrier.
However, Mango's new board stressed that it complied with competition regulations and questioned detractors' "motivation".
Mango would provide a travel opportunity for many South Africans who had never flown before, Bezuidenhout said.
He said that even though the aircraft would be putting in long hours, they were "new generation"; safe and reliable.
They would be flown by pilots with on average 15 years' experience and maintained by SAA's technical services.
"At no point in time will (we) compromise safety," he said.
Lease agreement with SAA
Although the high flying times would contribute to cost savings, Mango would be so much cheaper primarily because the aircraft being used were ten percent more fuel efficient that the others in use and because of the higher seat density.
Snacks and drinks would be for sale on board and excess baggage, billable.
Bezuidenhout would not go into detail about Mango's lease agreement with SAA, but said it was based on "market rates", as was the provision of technical services.
He said Mango was an independent company. The extent of SAA's involvement was a R100-million shareholders' loan.
Sapa
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No wonder the Low Cost Carriers are especially worried about Mango and the REAL threat that it brings. 
The reason: The 2 so-called Low Cost Carriers in SA are not really that...
In general it seems that they are only good at marketing themselves as LCC's, while IMHO they are actually just ripping off the customers.
A quick search for specific dates Jnb to/from Cpt (return) proves my point:
Mango: R 338 LCC
SAA: R 730 Main Line Operator
1Time: R 1158 LCC
Nationwide: R 1294 Main Line Operator
Kulula.com: R 1358 LCC
Just wonder who should be reporting who to the Competitions Commission for "misleading" advertising...
Mango-Mango!
The reason: The 2 so-called Low Cost Carriers in SA are not really that...
In general it seems that they are only good at marketing themselves as LCC's, while IMHO they are actually just ripping off the customers.
A quick search for specific dates Jnb to/from Cpt (return) proves my point:
Mango: R 338 LCC
SAA: R 730 Main Line Operator
1Time: R 1158 LCC
Nationwide: R 1294 Main Line Operator
Kulula.com: R 1358 LCC
Just wonder who should be reporting who to the Competitions Commission for "misleading" advertising...
Mango-Mango!
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Q4NVS,
Do you think that Mango could have done what they have done if they had to raise the funds via private equity investors, and isn't it interesting just how quiet they are about the terms of lease in respect of their aircraft.
Additionally it is telling that they have a lawyer whose speciality is competition law on their board.
I contend that they know exactly what they are doing in so far as sailing close to the wind. Legally they may get away with it all, but long term the fruits can only be a bitter harvest for passengers as free enterprise is choked out of aviation.
Take the examples you give - take Kulula's fare that is 150$ or £100 +/- now that for a two hour flight is cheap....just cast your mind back a few year and now we have high oil prices.
Now look at Mango and SAA fares, yes they are lower but then someone needs to teach them how to distinguish between assets and liabilities. Had any private enterprise indulged in the accounting practices as SAA there would be scandal but here we are today applauding them for cheap fares. Again you could say "fair play" if the government had a socialist agenda - you might not agree with it but at least it would be consistent - but they don't, the SA gov is privatising state owned industries.
The biggest joke of all is that SAX could be sold to Mango.....that would then be "misleading".
Do you think that Mango could have done what they have done if they had to raise the funds via private equity investors, and isn't it interesting just how quiet they are about the terms of lease in respect of their aircraft.
Additionally it is telling that they have a lawyer whose speciality is competition law on their board.
I contend that they know exactly what they are doing in so far as sailing close to the wind. Legally they may get away with it all, but long term the fruits can only be a bitter harvest for passengers as free enterprise is choked out of aviation.
Take the examples you give - take Kulula's fare that is 150$ or £100 +/- now that for a two hour flight is cheap....just cast your mind back a few year and now we have high oil prices.
Now look at Mango and SAA fares, yes they are lower but then someone needs to teach them how to distinguish between assets and liabilities. Had any private enterprise indulged in the accounting practices as SAA there would be scandal but here we are today applauding them for cheap fares. Again you could say "fair play" if the government had a socialist agenda - you might not agree with it but at least it would be consistent - but they don't, the SA gov is privatising state owned industries.
The biggest joke of all is that SAX could be sold to Mango.....that would then be "misleading".
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In September 06 I went down to Cape Town for the AAD.......I phoned around and found Comair, SAA and even Nationwide to be cheaper than 1time or Kulula. 1Time and Kulula.com with low overheads and all, fares higher than the main line operators, makes you think, doesn't it............
E
PS - Rumour has it that Mango took 70 pilots out of 400 applications, most of them pale male. You go mango!
E
PS - Rumour has it that Mango took 70 pilots out of 400 applications, most of them pale male. You go mango!
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Kulula and OneTime put up a good fight on SAFM today, Tuesday (mango sent no rep) but most callers it seems couldn't give a damn as long as they got cheap flights (in the short term before SAA/Mango crush competition 
)
Nice of Kulula's Novick to offer Mango some help on how to start a low cost airline, all Mango have to do is call him, apparently.
............................................................ .................
REGARDING
He said online ticket bookings would open at midnight on www.flymango.com and telephone bookings at 5.30am on Tuesday on 08611-MANGO.
............................................................ .....................
Has anybody actually managed to log onto flymango.com
I want to get some of my tax money back by buying a cheap flight for xmas but all I get is a blank webpage
.
)Nice of Kulula's Novick to offer Mango some help on how to start a low cost airline, all Mango have to do is call him, apparently.
............................................................ .................
REGARDING
He said online ticket bookings would open at midnight on www.flymango.com and telephone bookings at 5.30am on Tuesday on 08611-MANGO.
............................................................ .....................
Has anybody actually managed to log onto flymango.com
I want to get some of my tax money back by buying a cheap flight for xmas but all I get is a blank webpage
.
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Why all the effort of starting a low cost to crush competition? All SAA / Mango has to do is to employ 10 NTW and 1 Time Captains and these airlines will be parking aircraft. I believe 1 Time's crew shortages is reaching crisis dimensions. Bad planning catching up?
Just remember, once Mango has crushed the competition with their subsidised airfares, their prices won't stay that low. The public who now only wants the cheapest tickets, will then again be paying R3000 to CPT as in the old days. Remeber East London airfaires of SAA before 1 Time arrived on the market? Once the government has cushed free an fair enterprize in the airline industry, SAA will be the only player and new players will not be able to enter the market to compete since they will be crushed by price wars as they start. I'm afraid with mango starting, either NTW or 1 Time will not make it. At least NTW has international routes to carry them.
Just remember, once Mango has crushed the competition with their subsidised airfares, their prices won't stay that low. The public who now only wants the cheapest tickets, will then again be paying R3000 to CPT as in the old days. Remeber East London airfaires of SAA before 1 Time arrived on the market? Once the government has cushed free an fair enterprize in the airline industry, SAA will be the only player and new players will not be able to enter the market to compete since they will be crushed by price wars as they start. I'm afraid with mango starting, either NTW or 1 Time will not make it. At least NTW has international routes to carry them.
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Do you think that Mango could have done what they have done if they had to raise the funds via private equity investors...
Take the examples you give - take Kulula's fare that is 150$ or £100 +/- now that for a two hour flight is cheap....just cast your mind back a few year and now we have high oil prices.
Now look at Mango and SAA fares, yes they are lower but then someone needs to teach them how to distinguish between assets and liabilities. Had any private enterprise indulged in the accounting practices as SAA there would be scandal but here we are today applauding them for cheap fares.
Take the examples you give - take Kulula's fare that is 150$ or £100 +/- now that for a two hour flight is cheap....just cast your mind back a few year and now we have high oil prices.
Now look at Mango and SAA fares, yes they are lower but then someone needs to teach them how to distinguish between assets and liabilities. Had any private enterprise indulged in the accounting practices as SAA there would be scandal but here we are today applauding them for cheap fares.
Cape Town - The price war between SA's budget airlines is on.
Kulula.com has undercut low cost carrier Mango's launch price of R169 between Johannesburg-Cape Town, but it's still not the cheapest.
On its website, Kulula.com invites consumers to make use of its "fruit salad fare" from just R168 all inclusive from November 15. The offer is valid for flights between Johannesburg-Cape Town and Johannesburg-Durban or for a coastal flip between Cape Town and Durban.
Kulula.com has undercut low cost carrier Mango's launch price of R169 between Johannesburg-Cape Town, but it's still not the cheapest.
On its website, Kulula.com invites consumers to make use of its "fruit salad fare" from just R168 all inclusive from November 15. The offer is valid for flights between Johannesburg-Cape Town and Johannesburg-Durban or for a coastal flip between Cape Town and Durban.
Blah-blah-blah
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Developing story -
Low-cost airlines set for war
Two competitors of SAA's new low-cost airline are reducing their fares in reaction to Mango's cheap offers. "We're obviously going to play their game during the launch," said 1Time airline's marketing director, Rodney James, on Tuesday. "We did the same thing (when we launched), then you've got to settle down and run the business and make a profit. Let's see what happens after the fun and games." Mango CEO Nico Bezuidenhout said on Tuesday the airline's launch had seen an "unprecedented wave of enthusiasm". The airline's website had seen 15 000 availability queries during the first 10 minutes after booking opened at midnight.
By mid-morning on Tuesday, 11 000 confirmed reservations had been made at Mango's call-centre, which opened at 06:00. Bezuidenhout said: "The high call volumes, web impressions and soaring ticket sales prove the market is hungry for a priced-right airline such as Mango." >Mango spokesperson Hein Kaiser said they were aimed largely at reaching the "unflown". Gidon Novick, joint CEO of Comair, which runs Kulula, said the airline would undercut its prices for all of its eight routes, with the lowest fare at R168. This was, however, for a limited number of seats. 1Time's Rodney James said Mango's prices would lose Mango between R200m and R300m a year. Mango was offering one-way tickets from Johannesburg to Cape Town and Durban for R169. 1Time's offering for the same ticket ranged between R165 and R549 in January. December prices were R999. According to its website, Kulula's January prices ranged between R168 and R248. December one-way tickets cost between R859 and R1 399. James said there was some concern that Mango had been given a R100m loan from SAA. "If we had that kind of money we could probably start three or four airlines," he said.
There were also concerns about SAA's anticompetitive practices. Since December 2005, the competition commission had fined SAA twice, first R60m, then R45m, for fixing ticket prices and abusing its dominant position in the market. Nationwide airline's financial director Peter Griffiths said that "at the moment" they were not looking at reducing their prices. " We'll have to look at if we're affected (by Mango's price cuts)." Kaiser said the airline's pricing and business model was "highly sustainable". "The offer on the website is obviously a launch offer, but I can't foresee that the increase in price will be substantially higher." He said the airline's prices for Johannesburg-Cape Town flights for next year were R249 and he foresaw that they would stay at this level. "We will be able to sustain (our low prices), absolutely... There's definitely room in the market for another player."
Two competitors of SAA's new low-cost airline are reducing their fares in reaction to Mango's cheap offers. "We're obviously going to play their game during the launch," said 1Time airline's marketing director, Rodney James, on Tuesday. "We did the same thing (when we launched), then you've got to settle down and run the business and make a profit. Let's see what happens after the fun and games." Mango CEO Nico Bezuidenhout said on Tuesday the airline's launch had seen an "unprecedented wave of enthusiasm". The airline's website had seen 15 000 availability queries during the first 10 minutes after booking opened at midnight.
By mid-morning on Tuesday, 11 000 confirmed reservations had been made at Mango's call-centre, which opened at 06:00. Bezuidenhout said: "The high call volumes, web impressions and soaring ticket sales prove the market is hungry for a priced-right airline such as Mango." >Mango spokesperson Hein Kaiser said they were aimed largely at reaching the "unflown". Gidon Novick, joint CEO of Comair, which runs Kulula, said the airline would undercut its prices for all of its eight routes, with the lowest fare at R168. This was, however, for a limited number of seats. 1Time's Rodney James said Mango's prices would lose Mango between R200m and R300m a year. Mango was offering one-way tickets from Johannesburg to Cape Town and Durban for R169. 1Time's offering for the same ticket ranged between R165 and R549 in January. December prices were R999. According to its website, Kulula's January prices ranged between R168 and R248. December one-way tickets cost between R859 and R1 399. James said there was some concern that Mango had been given a R100m loan from SAA. "If we had that kind of money we could probably start three or four airlines," he said.
There were also concerns about SAA's anticompetitive practices. Since December 2005, the competition commission had fined SAA twice, first R60m, then R45m, for fixing ticket prices and abusing its dominant position in the market. Nationwide airline's financial director Peter Griffiths said that "at the moment" they were not looking at reducing their prices. " We'll have to look at if we're affected (by Mango's price cuts)." Kaiser said the airline's pricing and business model was "highly sustainable". "The offer on the website is obviously a launch offer, but I can't foresee that the increase in price will be substantially higher." He said the airline's prices for Johannesburg-Cape Town flights for next year were R249 and he foresaw that they would stay at this level. "We will be able to sustain (our low prices), absolutely... There's definitely room in the market for another player."
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Interesting article in the business news paper this morning about Kulula.com and 1Time, Kulula.com said that they are ready for the “price war” and they are sure to survive because they belong to a big company group. They said they are however worried about 1Time and other airlines without this type of support. It seems that Mango isn't the only LCC with financial support from its mother company. In this article Mango said they are looking at 10 B737-800 aircraft.
Heard a rumour that SAA is looking to add more Airbus a/c to its Domestic fleet, A319, A320 and A321 a/c will replace the B737-800’s. Apparently as the leases on the B737-800’s finish they will be retired, probably ending up with Mango.
E
Heard a rumour that SAA is looking to add more Airbus a/c to its Domestic fleet, A319, A320 and A321 a/c will replace the B737-800’s. Apparently as the leases on the B737-800’s finish they will be retired, probably ending up with Mango.
E
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