Shrike200

Awww, the mods ruined my fun....iceglider, I made this just for you before your post was subsumed into the GIANT post regarding what you asked about....

Round Engine

DesckJocky, you've made a perfect summary in this thread of the LCC problem. It is not a simple matter, but it centres a lot around SAA's problems with obtaining sufficiently savvy persons to handle such an entity, methinks. A parastatal cancer, if you will. If one ever wanted to paint the damage such unionised labour could create - go and spend a day at SAA Technical. I would even go as far as to say that it is criminal to pay people that much for the amount of productivity that comes out on the other end. Good luck to SAA on the LCC, but I fear it must fail. SAA staff have no idea of how to run a business, and if they did, they wouldn't care.

3rdBogey

Seems to me the way you go about this is: You just do it!
1) The Chief Justice is "modern", and must necessarily be a 'player' in the goverment. So, we have an angle on the necessary court-case which will be forthcoming from 1-Time, Kulula and Nationwide.(Maybe combined force...)
2) The Minister, of transport, he also plays ball, so, the necessary certification etc will be forthcoming, albeit a few months late.
As for what concerns us pilots at the "non-god" level, we have a beautiful little plan going against us.
We finish up at SAA on the 600 at age 63---now. Then, we 'retire' and take up the left hand seat at LCC for the remaining two years of our poverty stricken profession. Then we may well still consult for a few more years too! Anything, as long as we can sell it to Jeff who pays the loot.
Now, if you happen to give up your job now, to fly right hand seat at LCC, in the hope of EVER getting command there......... you need to be very carefull!!
You give up a good job now, in the hope of left hand seat there eventually. And you still have to fly with these 'clever-stunts' out of SAA!!!!
Why do you think they have been at VB's place lately????? They are looking for "suitable" RHS pilots! Then when LCC starts, they have all their "right-type-of person" employed. Pity he will never see command! He's not from SAA!
I for one, hope Kulula/1-Time and Nationwide give Shack long carrots in court over this "Low Cost Carrier". I think I'll just run outside and puke!! Low cost...........my Backside!!!!
GIVE me the machines on a silver salver and I'll also start an airline that can make money!

iceglider

Hi thanks the info mate... i should have put "SOON" in capital letters.. for very soon like in next week... 01/09/2006... aircraft already in for repaint...for low cost section... ha ha...with still a high cost structure...like SAA...

Q4NVS

Don't shoot the messenger, please...

According to today's Star (Business News):

Civiar CEO Andy Cluvar has been identified and appointed as the CEO of SAA's LCC due to start operations in November 2006.

I might be mistaken, but think that a while back there were quite a lot of nasty things said about this individual on Pprune...

Luckily, by the sounds of it, I do not know him at all

madherb

(C)heating (I)nsensitive (V)acant (A)varicious (I)ntense (R)ipoff = CIVAIR. What happened to the London flights? Just one example.......... But maybe the man has changed. Time will tell!

Solid Rust Twotter

Are you sure it's SAA's LCC he's heading and not another attempt at his own airline?

JetPark

Andy Cluver appointed CEO of the (SAA) low cost carrier?

I.R.PIRATE

....called TULCA.....the ultimate low cost airline

GULF69

What a joke!!!!!
Would love to see if he actually gets it off the ground!

69

Solid Rust Twotter

Oh, goodie!

More halfwitted managerial skullduggery for the taxpayer to fund.

If he's the best they could find the brain drain is having more effect than we first thought. Last to leave SA please blow out the candle....

beechbum

Is the LCC set to fail? With Mr Cluver in charge it can only be on the path to destruction.
Read in today's Business Day that this clown is taking over the reigns.
Yeeeehaaa.....let the games begin!

TooBadSoSad

If you want info on the LCC then take R50 to the dept of transport in Pretoria and they will give you a copy of the AOC application for TULCA (PTY) LTD. It includes CV's of the major postholders of which the CEO's post is a Mr Bezuidenhout, not a Mr Cluver. All the major postholders are current or retired SAA employees.

beechbum

So maybe the press has got it wrong again.....in all 3 papers.
Anyway Mr Bezuidenhout AKA Mr Clever.....Mr Not so Clever and oh yes...Mr Cluver.
It wouldn't make sense for him to run I suppose since its a conflict of interest..kind of!!!!

I.R.PIRATE

I say give them a chance. They are entering a very competitve market, and as long as they are not going to undercut prices by operating below break even, then I think it good for the market, movement in the industry, and more jobs. Not necesarrily immediately,my guess is over a five year period,but a fluid hiring market means movement, and you all know what that means...

ZERO3L

I.R. PIRATE.
Your quote below is all very well. If undercutting prices was feasible, I would agree, but its not.
If this market was that easy, Comair/Kulula and 1time would also be operating the likes of 737-800's.Basically, if the new SAA LCC undercuts the rest, they will be doing exactly what SAA is doing right now-losing taxpayers money.
The yields in low cost operations are marginal to say the least- I cant see how they will make money with the 800's if the lease costs are what they are rumoured to be.
At the end of the day, if they do launch successfully (after the protests), something has to give........somewhere.And that wont be job creation-jobs will be lost, if you get my drift?
"I say give them a chance. They are entering a very competitve market, and as long as they are not going to undercut prices by operating below break even, then I think it good for the market, movement in the industry, and more jobs."

I.R.PIRATE

Spoke to one of the 'other' big players last week, and they are really not too preturbed by the new boys and actually believe that this is a good thing - As long as they (tulca) price above break even. Thats all that they fear.

kingpost

ZERO3L

Ryanair operate their 738's with the highest margins of any airline. An average airline operates on a return of 4.5 to 5% margin, Ryanair obtain 21% return. They are also the best paid short haul airline in Europe. In the US Southwest, another very successful LCC has the lowest turn over of personal that receive good money and they have the largest union representation of any US airline !!

It an be done if the seats are sold correctly, SAA domestic will start a slow death........

JetPark

I must agree with previous post. Perhaps I have not read this thread well enough but I fail to undertand how it can be acceptable that a State onwed Airline can launch a LCC? Of course they are going to operate below cost. The paln is to rid the domestic market of the competition. I see Court battles looming. Guess who is going to pay?

beechbum

Kingpost. studies have been done by a certain LCC in SA with regards to
operating -800's and it revealed that due to the high Dollar based leasing costs and low SA yields, it s not feasable to operate such expensive machinery in the country.
Don't forget that Ryanairs' sole income does not come directly from filling the seats on an airliner. Mr O'leary has fingers in alot of pies and Ryanairs' income is supported by a few of these.He has stated in the past that passengers will in the future eventually travel for free as several airports/airports company will support the idea financially - i.e duty free, airport taxes etc. Makes for interesting reading........!!!!! Could never happen here though.....too many fingers in the tills.....let alone the pies!