Transformation in SA Aviation - going nowhere slowly (like this thread)
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All I can say is that black pilots without a job are not looking for one. The aviation sector in SA is screaming for black pilots to the extent that they're being actively recruited from flying schools if they are South African and even in some cases if they're not. Right to live and work here is being "fixed" by the companies. So much for jobs for South Africans.
Please explain to me how a company that is barely getting by and paying a below average wage to their regular pilots is going to be able to fund a black pilot that has as yet to prove himself? It's possible he's the wrong candidate and would be better suited to a career in business and would only waste their time and money. Why not take someone who's worked for it and is already there? Oh, silly me. Already been snapped up by airlines.
know of captains working on contract in the bush in appalling conditions getting paid less than the boss' secretary. That is not going to motivate many people to become pilots but those are the facts.
Pray tell, what is the person expected to do with 1000 hours? Command on a jet? Command on a medium turboprop? A white pilot may just be reaching a stage where the insurance companies consider him employable. Cadets and fast trackers are usually already in a regional airline by this point. I'm getting the idea you've never had to hand out countless CVs, attend the few interviews that get scheduled and spend months getting turned down. Command at SAA used to take 15-20 years in the right seat so your timetable is merely in it's infancy.
Zimbabwe is an example of an autocracy gone mad. It was all about pandering to the crowd to win votes in the end. Mugabe will do anything to hold onto power, including killing his own people (the sector who historically don't vote for him) and destroying his country.
Your logic is so flawed it's a joke. I asked where people had the right to an aviation job and you made it into a racist thing. Entering into any kind of debate with you is a waste of time and energy as you fail to present anything near a rational argument to back up your point, instead replying with thinly veiled threats about what will happen if things don't get fast tracked (Zim scenario), slanderous and untrue statements about people who oppose you, manipulation of their intentions and and downright untruths.
say again, any discrimination based on race is inherently racist, yet it seems this is acceptable to you. It appears the **** remains the same, only the flies have changed. Your whole struggle will have been in vain if the only thing that happens is that the liberators become the oppressors, as has happened so many times before. What will happen when equity has been reached? Will those discriminatory rules fall away? Somehow, I don't think so...
These things take time. Any attempt to fast track what can't be hurried will lead to failure.
Where has fast tracking led to failure in Emirates, Cathay, KQ etc.
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Hi Afriviation,
a couple of things you to understand
1) this forum is filled with racist white South Africans who just cannot comprehend the fact that democracy means majority rule
2)That the previously disadvantaged who suffered so much in their hands now have to be given a fair crack at making a good future for themselves
3)That a lot of the opinions on the African forum are entirely one sided and you can never have a balanced conversation without being overwhelmed by the constantly whinging brigade spouting crap about black people, black pilots at SAA, BEE this and BEE that.
4)They will never ever ever accept that they are racists
So my dear friend, there are those of us who read pprune African forum and try our best to ignore the usuall suspects so to speak, remember that with the current situation in SA, alot of them dont have jobs, or the kind of jobs they want, so a lot of time is spent brewing the hatred which is being directed at you. Congrats for standing up and speaking the thruth though, its usually a topic that alot of peeple tend not to bother with.
Oh yeah, and whoever thinks of directing crap at me, well hear this. Your opinion really doesn't matter anyway, things are changing in Africa and people are standing up to be counted. I have a good job in Africa, I earn well and I'm loving it. Got to go and prepare for 2mor's flight. Feel free to carry on this conversation for as long as you all want. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels the way I do
a couple of things you to understand
1) this forum is filled with racist white South Africans who just cannot comprehend the fact that democracy means majority rule
2)That the previously disadvantaged who suffered so much in their hands now have to be given a fair crack at making a good future for themselves
3)That a lot of the opinions on the African forum are entirely one sided and you can never have a balanced conversation without being overwhelmed by the constantly whinging brigade spouting crap about black people, black pilots at SAA, BEE this and BEE that.
4)They will never ever ever accept that they are racists
So my dear friend, there are those of us who read pprune African forum and try our best to ignore the usuall suspects so to speak, remember that with the current situation in SA, alot of them dont have jobs, or the kind of jobs they want, so a lot of time is spent brewing the hatred which is being directed at you. Congrats for standing up and speaking the thruth though, its usually a topic that alot of peeple tend not to bother with.
Oh yeah, and whoever thinks of directing crap at me, well hear this. Your opinion really doesn't matter anyway, things are changing in Africa and people are standing up to be counted. I have a good job in Africa, I earn well and I'm loving it. Got to go and prepare for 2mor's flight. Feel free to carry on this conversation for as long as you all want. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels the way I do
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Guys guys guys.......don't you think that this poor individual seems to have an answer for every post you or I put up. I think it's about time we put this to bed as quite honestly it just seems to be going round and round in a viscous circle. I think Afriman can't wait for a retort to his ongoing plead for transformation and the more we do it the more guns he has firing. Personally I think it must be a sad individual who cannot realise that transformation all thought painful for you - Afriaman - will be a slow and ardious process and as soon as you realise this the better.
Since you have so much time on your hands in between "manning" your bus on the way to wherever, be constructive and visit the charter firms and relay your ongoing ambitions of transforming this ever backward aviation industry of ours.Imagine what a little input you could make.
Instead of sitting in front of your computer for hours on end, imagine what good you could have done already. maybe you could have left your nicely furnished abode and gone into the townships found some eager fellow and taken him to your nearby airfield and shown him what you so dearly missed out on growing up.
Anyway I hope to goodness you transform our industry single handedly and then we can admire what a fantastic individual you really are.
I'll be out of a job and maybe my kids will have to walk 30km's to school!!!
Anyway you've had too many days off now time SAA put you back to work.....now where's that roster clerks' number.........???
Have fun Afriman.......and keep on transforming.
Au revoir.....until we meet again!!!!
Since you have so much time on your hands in between "manning" your bus on the way to wherever, be constructive and visit the charter firms and relay your ongoing ambitions of transforming this ever backward aviation industry of ours.Imagine what a little input you could make.
Instead of sitting in front of your computer for hours on end, imagine what good you could have done already. maybe you could have left your nicely furnished abode and gone into the townships found some eager fellow and taken him to your nearby airfield and shown him what you so dearly missed out on growing up.
Anyway I hope to goodness you transform our industry single handedly and then we can admire what a fantastic individual you really are.
I'll be out of a job and maybe my kids will have to walk 30km's to school!!!
Anyway you've had too many days off now time SAA put you back to work.....now where's that roster clerks' number.........???
Have fun Afriman.......and keep on transforming.
Au revoir.....until we meet again!!!!
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Oooh happy pilot, thanks for a breath of fresh air. I think for me this thread highlighted a few things for me
1) The real reason transformation is so slow in this country.
2) How greedy and selfish pale people are.
3) If you lose out in an argument attack the person.
4) Times change, Govenrments change, policies change but people will always remain the same.
5) The successes of the Anc government will never be recognised by the majority of pale people.
and lastly
7) If you are a non pale pilot out there, particularly if you were sponsored by the government you better watch your back, So many pale pilots are disgusted that you were taken out of the doldrums and are now occupying a seat their pal, brother, sister or son/daughter would rather be occupying.
I'm not chickening out of this thread, I will continue to challenge any responses worthwile challenging for the good of defending a just cause to better the lives of the sons and daughters of the Maids and Gardeners of Pale people in South Africa.
1) The real reason transformation is so slow in this country.
2) How greedy and selfish pale people are.
3) If you lose out in an argument attack the person.
4) Times change, Govenrments change, policies change but people will always remain the same.
5) The successes of the Anc government will never be recognised by the majority of pale people.
and lastly
7) If you are a non pale pilot out there, particularly if you were sponsored by the government you better watch your back, So many pale pilots are disgusted that you were taken out of the doldrums and are now occupying a seat their pal, brother, sister or son/daughter would rather be occupying.
I'm not chickening out of this thread, I will continue to challenge any responses worthwile challenging for the good of defending a just cause to better the lives of the sons and daughters of the Maids and Gardeners of Pale people in South Africa.
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Oh happypilot you do gooder you.....and the UK has no racism hey.......huh you type make me wanna 
You see Afriman this type of retort is totally uncalled for ....."to watch their backs" man you are creating an unnecessary atmosphere blending on the whole hatred thing.You're the one making the issues here........
The cadets that I do know, I wish all the best of luck to, they are fine individuals and I had fun flying with them and I hope that they make a great success of their careers at SAA as none of them have chips like you do on both shoulders.Go and get it guys as you deserve it. But you.......!!!!
If you are a non pale pilot out there, particularly if you were sponsored by the government you better watch your back, So many pale pilots are disgusted that you were taken out of the doldrums and are now occupying a seat their pal, brother, sister or son/daughter would rather be occupying.
The cadets that I do know, I wish all the best of luck to, they are fine individuals and I had fun flying with them and I hope that they make a great success of their careers at SAA as none of them have chips like you do on both shoulders.Go and get it guys as you deserve it. But you.......!!!!
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beechbum I'm not a cadet, get your facts right. With so much antagonism towards people who were uplifted by the government, yes the warning bells are sounding. Just see some of the replies to this thread and stop putting the blame on me, even if your fellow pales and yourself included have made it clear how they feel about he whole situation.
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Afri,
I think your missing the point. Majority of us whites (call a spade a spade I say
) agree that blacks should be in the cockpit. You are going to meet the odd one who doesnt agree with this but these are very few and far between. Im white so dont know what its like to be black but I do know what its like to be a female in this industry when there is sooo few of us. From all my dealings with white and black male pilots, apart from one individual f , the fact that I was a female did not bother them one iota. I was always treated like one of the lads and was always treated with utmost respect. If you look at our industry today and compare it to what it was say 15 years ago there's definately far more softness out there 
Just proves that the industry is willing to transform.
I think the point that we're trying to make afri is that transformation is not going to happen overnight. I support your endeavours wholeheartedly but I think you maybe being slightly unrealistic - time wise that is......
I think your missing the point. Majority of us whites (call a spade a spade I say
) agree that blacks should be in the cockpit. You are going to meet the odd one who doesnt agree with this but these are very few and far between. Im white so dont know what its like to be black but I do know what its like to be a female in this industry when there is sooo few of us. From all my dealings with white and black male pilots, apart from one individual f , the fact that I was a female did not bother them one iota. I was always treated like one of the lads and was always treated with utmost respect. If you look at our industry today and compare it to what it was say 15 years ago there's definately far more softness out there Just proves that the industry is willing to transform. I think the point that we're trying to make afri is that transformation is not going to happen overnight. I support your endeavours wholeheartedly but I think you maybe being slightly unrealistic - time wise that is......
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Afriaviation, I have heard arguement from both sides, and am still at a loss for an answer. I concede that you have a valid point, transformation is not taking place fast enough. My question remains the same, and still unanswered by either yourself or any other ppruner. How do we correct the problem.
You are very quick to say that industry must pay. I seem to recall that you would like to see 90% black representation in cockpits accross the board. Lets say that there are 5000 professional pilots out there (fixed wing). 1000 out of the country or out of work. That means that we are looking at 90% of 4000 employed pilots to be trained. This equates to 3600 pilots, less as many are trained already. Lets say 3000 pilots. That comes to about R1260 Million at R350 000.00 per com pilot. I can't see industry forking that kind of money out!
So we apply to TETA, as you say, and they say they have a spare R1260 Million lying arround. We train the pilots. It takes 18 months, and now the pilots are there. How are they accomodated? Are 3600 presently employed pilots fired to make possitions available?
I'm not trying to be unrealistic. I do in essence agree with you, however, the problem is a little more complex than it is being made out to be by both sides.
I know that I have misconstrued the essence of what you are trying to say, but what exactly would you like to see happen.
While we're at it,does anyone know how many black pilots there are in SA now? Approximate figure would be fine. This might be a good indication of how badly, or perhaps well we are doing.
You are very quick to say that industry must pay. I seem to recall that you would like to see 90% black representation in cockpits accross the board. Lets say that there are 5000 professional pilots out there (fixed wing). 1000 out of the country or out of work. That means that we are looking at 90% of 4000 employed pilots to be trained. This equates to 3600 pilots, less as many are trained already. Lets say 3000 pilots. That comes to about R1260 Million at R350 000.00 per com pilot. I can't see industry forking that kind of money out!
So we apply to TETA, as you say, and they say they have a spare R1260 Million lying arround. We train the pilots. It takes 18 months, and now the pilots are there. How are they accomodated? Are 3600 presently employed pilots fired to make possitions available?
I'm not trying to be unrealistic. I do in essence agree with you, however, the problem is a little more complex than it is being made out to be by both sides.
I know that I have misconstrued the essence of what you are trying to say, but what exactly would you like to see happen.
While we're at it,does anyone know how many black pilots there are in SA now? Approximate figure would be fine. This might be a good indication of how badly, or perhaps well we are doing.
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Sorry for the presumption oh righteous one.....but at no stage did you refer to us as otherwise, so how could I have got my facts right. When you proclaimed that the first aircraft you saw was the one you jumped on to go to your place of training, the power of deduction = cadet. So if you're not a cadet then the scope narrows as to your identity.......
We're not casting any blame here buddy we just trying to point out many issues in our environment that you fail to understand. Unfortunately if you see it as blame ,well that is your Indaba. After all who started the thread and as I said on page one of this topic..... this could get rough!!!!
And boy did it.........you should have believed it.
One thing you may or may not understand is that there are hundreds of pilots out there whether it be in the charter, regional or training sector that still believe and desire a career at the national carrier. When someone like yourself comes on board and starts on about transformation and the non-pales as you put it, it tends to dash peoples hopes and dreams. It also creates a defensive barrier - and unfortunately a natural reaction is to attack.
So as the one and only - you received most of this attack - whether you like it or not.
And I am not a white extremist as you put it - maybe I should say GET your facts right - but then again as I have said before you do not know my background and never will.
I am merely protecting what I believe in and for the aviation of South Africa as a whole as I don't care at the end of the day whether it's black, white, pink,: brown or purple. I am a professional and would hope that you are the same and to go on until we are blue in the face is rediculous....because as we all know the transformation that you seek will come. But not today, not tomorrow but soon........and that is what you have to learn to accept.
We're not casting any blame here buddy we just trying to point out many issues in our environment that you fail to understand. Unfortunately if you see it as blame ,well that is your Indaba. After all who started the thread and as I said on page one of this topic..... this could get rough!!!!
And boy did it.........you should have believed it.
One thing you may or may not understand is that there are hundreds of pilots out there whether it be in the charter, regional or training sector that still believe and desire a career at the national carrier. When someone like yourself comes on board and starts on about transformation and the non-pales as you put it, it tends to dash peoples hopes and dreams. It also creates a defensive barrier - and unfortunately a natural reaction is to attack.
So as the one and only - you received most of this attack - whether you like it or not.
And I am not a white extremist as you put it - maybe I should say GET your facts right - but then again as I have said before you do not know my background and never will.
I am merely protecting what I believe in and for the aviation of South Africa as a whole as I don't care at the end of the day whether it's black, white, pink,: brown or purple. I am a professional and would hope that you are the same and to go on until we are blue in the face is rediculous....because as we all know the transformation that you seek will come. But not today, not tomorrow but soon........and that is what you have to learn to accept.
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Originally Posted by beechbum
Be warned as there is a large can of whip ass coming your way
Originally Posted by beechbum
I am a professional and would hope that you are the same
Originally Posted by beechbum
Instead of sitting in front of your computer for hours on end, imagine what good you could have done already.
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Originally Posted by Afriviation
SRT with due respect that is a blatant lie. Which Companies are these, Solenta Maybe (they have 1 non pale not from a scheme) NAC No, Execujet No, Federal Aviation No, Anglo Maybe ( A dude who was mysteriously kicked out of the SAA scheme) etc etc. I don't know where you get your information but I'm afraid it is flawed to the extreme. perhaps you could give some statistics that could slightly change my view about SA aviation.
The friend who owns a flying school has been approached by the company you work for enquiring about students who are doing commercial licences, particularly black and female students. Lies? I think not but I'm not sure you can see that through the fog of propaganda.
Explain to me how does A company that is barely getting ........ pay for a new pilot to do their conversion. There's always a risk involved with training someone. Hence they've come up with things like bonding etc. As they say SRT a boer maak a plan. Surely if it takes bonding these non pales that could be done. As I said before there's no will.
I know of non pales with degrees who are not employed who could jump at the opportunity of getting a cleaners salary.
As said before the issue of hours is based on Supply/demand. If you're serious about transformation you'd know the answer. Ask emirates/Cathay at what level are they cadets are at with those hours, my guess/ co-pilot on a 777 or similar.
Well amazing how they quicky danced to his tune. perhaps the pressures of having nothing contributed to it.
The fact remains transformation in Aviation is going nowhere in SA, that has nothing to do with my logic.
How can you possibly discriminate against your boss. Even though government is in the hands of non pales in this country, everyone knows that true power that is wealth and influence is still in the hands of pales.
Where has fast tracking led to failure in Emirates, Cathay, KQ etc.
Where has fast tracking led to failure in Emirates, Cathay, KQ etc.
Happy Pilot, you don't work or live in South Africa and are therefore pretty much unqualified to comment but your racist drivel says it all really.
In closing I believe the industry does need to transform but forcing the issue won't make things right. There is a natural progression that must be followed and that includes a level of self sponsorship and interest, rather than just cadetships. It's going to take time and it won't be easy so the expectation you have that things will come right overnight if you can just get rid of all the white pilots is erroneous and dangerous. Your level of racism and that of Happy Pilot astounds me. You obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder regarding white people and until you get your head sorted out on that count you will continue to be a bitter individual that I certainly would feel uncomfortable spending time with on a flight deck.
I'm putting this one to bed now because I find I'm just repeating myself to no avail. None so blind and all that...
Good night.
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Hey chick who rattled your cage. Read my posts properly and you'll realise I ain't a rascist.......huh get outta here man and quit wasting my time. And if I want to be on Pprune the whole day then so be it. Get a life and put something constructive on the forum or get the hell out!!!
Bye for now.........and there's nothing wrong with a few smiles. 
Silly lass..............
Bye for now.........and there's nothing wrong with a few smiles.
Silly lass..............
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My 2 cents
Flying is not rocket science guys, Anyone who says safety will deteriorate because blacks are quick tracked into airline seats is prejudiced!
SAL has had some of their pilots become captains in 4-5 years from ab-initio training with no major decline in their safety record. Any candidate from any race can fly an airplane if trained and certified as per standards, regardless of whether they have a love of flying or not!
Flying is about money really! Doesn't matter how much u love flying, or breathing because of no other ambition, but to be the best gawdamn pilot since Chuck Yeager-and that airline seat is ur ultimatum achivement. I've had awesome students who loved to fly, stop flying because they ran out of money, just as much as I've had some students who didn't care a damn about flying as a career, but did it just because they had an education trust fund set up, or mummy/daddy taking them to flight school just to keep them occupied.
Here in the US, some people fly not because they love to, but because they see it as a tool to make their lives simpler or more entertaining, be they lawyers, doctors, actors regardless of race..etc...and they have the resources to do that. Over the years, affirmative action has been used as a tool to help the minority blacks get out of the pitiful destitution and ignorance they were plunged into by years being downtrodden; and todate, the US supreme court believes affirmative action is still needed for a few more decades to achieve this objective.
Some times to be fair where unfairness existed for ages, u have to open up more oppotunities for those who've been down trodden for so long,that they may have a chance to get out of the pitiful cycle of ignorance and destitution. Its unfortunate that some who felt entitled to what they thought rightfully theirs for so long, and got spoilt, see this as wrong, or that it should take more time. Change is loved by those it favors, and hated by those who don't want change. But change is inevitable! Accept it and work with it, or die a bitter person.
SAL has had some of their pilots become captains in 4-5 years from ab-initio training with no major decline in their safety record. Any candidate from any race can fly an airplane if trained and certified as per standards, regardless of whether they have a love of flying or not!
Flying is about money really! Doesn't matter how much u love flying, or breathing because of no other ambition, but to be the best gawdamn pilot since Chuck Yeager-and that airline seat is ur ultimatum achivement. I've had awesome students who loved to fly, stop flying because they ran out of money, just as much as I've had some students who didn't care a damn about flying as a career, but did it just because they had an education trust fund set up, or mummy/daddy taking them to flight school just to keep them occupied.
Here in the US, some people fly not because they love to, but because they see it as a tool to make their lives simpler or more entertaining, be they lawyers, doctors, actors regardless of race..etc...and they have the resources to do that. Over the years, affirmative action has been used as a tool to help the minority blacks get out of the pitiful destitution and ignorance they were plunged into by years being downtrodden; and todate, the US supreme court believes affirmative action is still needed for a few more decades to achieve this objective.
Some times to be fair where unfairness existed for ages, u have to open up more oppotunities for those who've been down trodden for so long,that they may have a chance to get out of the pitiful cycle of ignorance and destitution. Its unfortunate that some who felt entitled to what they thought rightfully theirs for so long, and got spoilt, see this as wrong, or that it should take more time. Change is loved by those it favors, and hated by those who don't want change. But change is inevitable! Accept it and work with it, or die a bitter person.
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One can't really comment about anyone's situation when growing up since one did not experience it first hand, so most policies will help some and hinder others. I also feel that even debating such things is like debating the colour of poop.
Methinx Jesse Jackson said it best:
"Excellence is the best solution to racism. Excellence is the best solution to sexism. Be Excellent!"
The world is not fair, and one just has to deal with it - both sides of this argument. I don't have to like the offside rule to play soccer, I just need to understand it.
If one is the best that one can be at the job, good things will probably happen - even if there are a few speedbumps in the road. It is hard to ignore the best individuals, whilst the mediocre are easily ignored.
If one has to put in more effort than others to achieve one's goals, then that's what needs to be done. Anyone with children will understand that an evironment of entitlement does not encourage one to grow and learn to deal with adversity.
If you are in a position to change policy for the better of most, then do it. If you are not, learn the rules and apply yourself even more to achieve your goals. No-one decides what state of mind I wake up in, or what I want to achieve each day - except for me.
Methinx Jesse Jackson said it best:
"Excellence is the best solution to racism. Excellence is the best solution to sexism. Be Excellent!"
The world is not fair, and one just has to deal with it - both sides of this argument. I don't have to like the offside rule to play soccer, I just need to understand it.
If one is the best that one can be at the job, good things will probably happen - even if there are a few speedbumps in the road. It is hard to ignore the best individuals, whilst the mediocre are easily ignored.
If one has to put in more effort than others to achieve one's goals, then that's what needs to be done. Anyone with children will understand that an evironment of entitlement does not encourage one to grow and learn to deal with adversity.
If you are in a position to change policy for the better of most, then do it. If you are not, learn the rules and apply yourself even more to achieve your goals. No-one decides what state of mind I wake up in, or what I want to achieve each day - except for me.
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Originally Posted by saywhat
Afriaviation, I have heard arguement from both sides, and am still at a loss for an answer. I concede that you have a valid point, transformation is not taking place fast enough. My question remains the same, and still unanswered by either yourself or any other ppruner. How do we correct the problem.
You are very quick to say that industry must pay. I seem to recall that you would like to see 90% black representation in cockpits accross the board. Lets say that there are 5000 professional pilots out there (fixed wing). 1000 out of the country or out of work. That means that we are looking at 90% of 4000 employed pilots to be trained. This equates to 3600 pilots, less as many are trained already. Lets say 3000 pilots. That comes to about R1260 Million at R350 000.00 per com pilot. I can't see industry forking that kind of money out!
So we apply to TETA, as you say, and they say they have a spare R1260 Million lying arround. We train the pilots. It takes 18 months, and now the pilots are there. How are they accomodated? Are 3600 presently employed pilots fired to make possitions available?
I'm not trying to be unrealistic. I do in essence agree with you, however, the problem is a little more complex than it is being made out to be by both sides.
I know that I have misconstrued the essence of what you are trying to say, but what exactly would you like to see happen.
While we're at it,does anyone know how many black pilots there are in SA now? Approximate figure would be fine. This might be a good indication of how badly, or perhaps well we are doing.
You are very quick to say that industry must pay. I seem to recall that you would like to see 90% black representation in cockpits accross the board. Lets say that there are 5000 professional pilots out there (fixed wing). 1000 out of the country or out of work. That means that we are looking at 90% of 4000 employed pilots to be trained. This equates to 3600 pilots, less as many are trained already. Lets say 3000 pilots. That comes to about R1260 Million at R350 000.00 per com pilot. I can't see industry forking that kind of money out!
So we apply to TETA, as you say, and they say they have a spare R1260 Million lying arround. We train the pilots. It takes 18 months, and now the pilots are there. How are they accomodated? Are 3600 presently employed pilots fired to make possitions available?
I'm not trying to be unrealistic. I do in essence agree with you, however, the problem is a little more complex than it is being made out to be by both sides.
I know that I have misconstrued the essence of what you are trying to say, but what exactly would you like to see happen.
While we're at it,does anyone know how many black pilots there are in SA now? Approximate figure would be fine. This might be a good indication of how badly, or perhaps well we are doing.
Precisely. Afriviation, your'e jumping up and down saying 'Something must be done!', but you neglect to provide any reasonable solution. Saying 'n Boer maak 'n plan' is just downright silly. "n Boer" can't just whip several million out of his wallet - and with Saywhat's theoretical sums, that doesn't include the trained pilots then getting any form of experience before occupying whatever seat they can occupy (and let's face it - there's no way in hell you can argue that they should get command of anything bigger than a 'Van at 250 hrs or so!)
Trying to inject some logic and reason to the argument is not 'racist'. Comments by Happypilot et al just expose that mindless bigotry can exist on both sides - you live in your world, and none of our arguments can change your blinkered opinion.
"White pilots are all racist" - oh please. I don't have any problem with black people - if I did I wouldn't be living and working in Africa, that would be exceptionally stupid, what with Africa being mostly occupied by black people. Don't you think I would have just left by now? Wake up, really. None of us hark back to the bad old days. We just want to find a way forward, and you're basically telling us there isn't one for us, we must all bugger off and not fly - how did you think we would react? You made jokes saying 'yes baas etc' (which really irritated me - don't play that stupid game, I never want any person to call me 'baas'), then expect us to say the same to you. Rubbish thinking.
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And take a look at Guns (R.I.P.) posting positive comments on progress, just for example:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206124
Is that racist too? You'll note the encouragement - thats generally the widely held view here, I'm sure. Wake up Afriviation, you're not living in the world you think you're living in. Maybe they can remake 'The Matrix', starring you in the lead role.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206124
Is that racist too? You'll note the encouragement - thats generally the widely held view here, I'm sure. Wake up Afriviation, you're not living in the world you think you're living in. Maybe they can remake 'The Matrix', starring you in the lead role.
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Afriviation
The doors are open... wide open! Nobody's going to carry people through the doors though. Every pilot out there, regardless of colour still has to put in effort to make a success. Personally I think working for something is a lot more satisfying than being fast-tracked. I want to feel like i deserve what i get just as much as everyone else because i've worked for it.
I'm close friends with quite a few black pilots who have made a huge success because they have persevered and because they have a passion for flying. That's what it is all about. Don't lose sight of the goal here. Silly arguments like this hold back transformation because you are stepping on toes unnecessarily and it creates a negative attitude towards black pilots and transformation.
By the way... where have you been? There are lots of black pilots in training at flying schools - i know because i'm there. And everyone is treated the same. We cannot move forward if we keep on looking back. We need to cut the ties of the past. Else transformation will take even longer! Don't you see that what you have done here, is not helping at all!
My friend, i understand how you feel but you should change your approach. If you wind people up you will not get their co-operation. Each and every one of us should start to try and make a difference in our own small way. What have YOU done to HELP transformation? Have you sponsored a previously-advantaged person's PPL? That's a good way to start.
I read a book that really changed my opinion on life and a changing environment. It's called "Who moved my cheese"... by an author i cannot remember right now. I really recommend it!
The doors are open... wide open! Nobody's going to carry people through the doors though. Every pilot out there, regardless of colour still has to put in effort to make a success. Personally I think working for something is a lot more satisfying than being fast-tracked. I want to feel like i deserve what i get just as much as everyone else because i've worked for it.
I'm close friends with quite a few black pilots who have made a huge success because they have persevered and because they have a passion for flying. That's what it is all about. Don't lose sight of the goal here. Silly arguments like this hold back transformation because you are stepping on toes unnecessarily and it creates a negative attitude towards black pilots and transformation.
By the way... where have you been? There are lots of black pilots in training at flying schools - i know because i'm there. And everyone is treated the same. We cannot move forward if we keep on looking back. We need to cut the ties of the past. Else transformation will take even longer! Don't you see that what you have done here, is not helping at all!
My friend, i understand how you feel but you should change your approach. If you wind people up you will not get their co-operation. Each and every one of us should start to try and make a difference in our own small way. What have YOU done to HELP transformation? Have you sponsored a previously-advantaged person's PPL? That's a good way to start.
I read a book that really changed my opinion on life and a changing environment. It's called "Who moved my cheese"... by an author i cannot remember right now. I really recommend it!
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Here here Jlo.....exactly what we have been trying to say all along. Maybe he will take heed.
Lekker.....well done!!! Better go before I get yelled at for being on Pprune again!
Byeeeeeeeeeeeeee! (only one this time!)
Lekker.....well done!!! Better go before I get yelled at for being on Pprune again!
Byeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
(only one this time!)
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Afri,
Seems like you dont really know what is going on behind the curtains. I am personally involved in setting up a training academy where we will train pilots from all different backgrounds...which will mostly be black students.
Government is involved as well as other companies which you will probably think is WHTE owned. These guys will be sticking their money where their mouth is and help the transformation but its going to take time. I think your approach to this whole thing has been in an arrogant manner and leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of white pilots who are trying to make a living in the affirmative SA. Some of these "white" pilots have "black" pilots as flying partners and get along very well.
The tone that you are using just builds a bigger wall between black and white and you are definetaly not helping to break it down. Why dont you stop the political/racial comments, have a look around you, take off your "colour" lenses and see the aviation industry as everyone else sees it.
Yes, it is an industry where transformation has been slow(mostly due to the costs) and yes it has not yet been refelective of our nation but it will take time.
Meanwhile, you can start at yourself and see what you can do to help transformation.Moaning, whining, blaming apartheid and throwing racial comments around is certainly not a start.
You dont have to pay a PDI's PPL...you can just take a group of young black kids to your aircraft or even just the airport and show them around. This will be a start at creating some interest with PDI's. If they are genuinely interested in avaiation they will actually stay in school, do maths, science or geography and aim to become a pilot.
No use to just take a black guy from the street and tell him that he will now become a pilot.As you mentioned, youre an aviator, and to create more aviators, we need to create more interest from PDI's to transform the industry.
Stop looking at your collegues skin colour and be the one who initiates these kind of stuff at your job.
Be the leader, not the moaner.
Seems like you dont really know what is going on behind the curtains. I am personally involved in setting up a training academy where we will train pilots from all different backgrounds...which will mostly be black students.
Government is involved as well as other companies which you will probably think is WHTE owned. These guys will be sticking their money where their mouth is and help the transformation but its going to take time. I think your approach to this whole thing has been in an arrogant manner and leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of white pilots who are trying to make a living in the affirmative SA. Some of these "white" pilots have "black" pilots as flying partners and get along very well.
The tone that you are using just builds a bigger wall between black and white and you are definetaly not helping to break it down. Why dont you stop the political/racial comments, have a look around you, take off your "colour" lenses and see the aviation industry as everyone else sees it.
Yes, it is an industry where transformation has been slow(mostly due to the costs) and yes it has not yet been refelective of our nation but it will take time.
Meanwhile, you can start at yourself and see what you can do to help transformation.Moaning, whining, blaming apartheid and throwing racial comments around is certainly not a start.
You dont have to pay a PDI's PPL...you can just take a group of young black kids to your aircraft or even just the airport and show them around. This will be a start at creating some interest with PDI's. If they are genuinely interested in avaiation they will actually stay in school, do maths, science or geography and aim to become a pilot.
No use to just take a black guy from the street and tell him that he will now become a pilot.As you mentioned, youre an aviator, and to create more aviators, we need to create more interest from PDI's to transform the industry.
Stop looking at your collegues skin colour and be the one who initiates these kind of stuff at your job.
Be the leader, not the moaner.