"Near miss" over Joburg 22/10/04?
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"Near miss" over Joburg 22/10/04?
Hi everyone.
Was driving in my car at 08:50 this morning and heard a guy who sounded pretty shaken up phoning up radio 702 and saying he just saw a "near miss" over Fourways,JHB, between what he said was a Lufthansa 744 and an SAA acft.He reckons the two acft converged,then one of them "veered" (sic) off to avoid a collision which he claims was imminent.Another guy also phoned and said he saw it too.Both acknowledged they had no aviation knowledge at all.
Now i know LH 572 comes in about that time,and SAA has a lot of incoming europe flights too,but i'm highly skeptical that this was in any way a "near miss".I know the Joburg ATCs well and they're amongst the most professional in the world,so i seriously doubt something like this would ever be allowed to happen in the JNB TMA.
Sounds to me like they were on Lanseria and Hartbees arrivals,parallell,and one got vectors off the STAR,hence the "veering",but did anyone else hear about this too?
Sounds very much like the usual public ignorance and a bit of dramatisation brought on by a lack of knowledge of what really goes on,but still,its a pretty serious thing to claim.
Anyone else know if this may be true?
Was driving in my car at 08:50 this morning and heard a guy who sounded pretty shaken up phoning up radio 702 and saying he just saw a "near miss" over Fourways,JHB, between what he said was a Lufthansa 744 and an SAA acft.He reckons the two acft converged,then one of them "veered" (sic) off to avoid a collision which he claims was imminent.Another guy also phoned and said he saw it too.Both acknowledged they had no aviation knowledge at all.
Now i know LH 572 comes in about that time,and SAA has a lot of incoming europe flights too,but i'm highly skeptical that this was in any way a "near miss".I know the Joburg ATCs well and they're amongst the most professional in the world,so i seriously doubt something like this would ever be allowed to happen in the JNB TMA.
Sounds to me like they were on Lanseria and Hartbees arrivals,parallell,and one got vectors off the STAR,hence the "veering",but did anyone else hear about this too?
Sounds very much like the usual public ignorance and a bit of dramatisation brought on by a lack of knowledge of what really goes on,but still,its a pretty serious thing to claim.
Anyone else know if this may be true?
Gatvol
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ITs a place in todays world that is ripe for a problem. However, when someone calls the media and makes a stink I take it lightly not knowing his credentials for determining what large Aircraft may be doing and why. If the phone was coming off the hook with numerous calls of this same situation would give it a little more credability.
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Also saw that this morning. Nothing serious. Looked like a runway change from 03 to 21 that caused both aircraft to change direction. Saw both going over WKV to land 21L.
JNB ATC very good, just some ground people looking for some action.
JNB ATC very good, just some ground people looking for some action.
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thought it was nothing serious,as i said,Joburg ATC is top class.Glad someone actually saw it & can explain what happened.
Its unfortunate that the public tends to hype things up,mostly out of a lack of knowledge i suppose
Its unfortunate that the public tends to hype things up,mostly out of a lack of knowledge i suppose
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Hey there dudes!
I was the planner for JHB Radar when this BS was reported. Both the DLH and SAA were being vectored from HBV on the downwind for 21L, they were on top of one-another 1000' - separated. This is perfectly legal, though not normal. We normally space them in trail as well as vertically on downwind, but they were "next in" so I just left them.
I'm sure that from the ground, 2 B744 look quite close when 1000' vertical.
I do however criticise 702 for not verifying the incident before putting it on air. I also have a criticism for ATNS for not phoning and putting the roumours to rest either : no answer = hiding something in some peoples book.
Glad 2 make some conversation - we'll try for 3 next time!
I was the planner for JHB Radar when this BS was reported. Both the DLH and SAA were being vectored from HBV on the downwind for 21L, they were on top of one-another 1000' - separated. This is perfectly legal, though not normal. We normally space them in trail as well as vertically on downwind, but they were "next in" so I just left them.
I'm sure that from the ground, 2 B744 look quite close when 1000' vertical.
I do however criticise 702 for not verifying the incident before putting it on air. I also have a criticism for ATNS for not phoning and putting the roumours to rest either : no answer = hiding something in some peoples book.
Glad 2 make some conversation - we'll try for 3 next time!
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New Sport!
New ATC compo - formation aero's with unknowing aircraft!
Point awarded for:
-Synchronised formation turns/manoeuvres
-Perfect separation
-Extra points for calls from panicky citizens on the ground. (Note, must still comply with rules below)
Rules:
-Aircraft must be correctly separated
-Pilots must be completely none the wiser. Any pilot who spots the impromptu compo happening must be fed mucho beer by all ATC involved.
-ATNS managment must not be any the wiser.
-ATC voice must sound as ultra cool as usual. When sure of a winning score, they can say 'Its a winner!' in a very excited voice.
Bonus points awarded for getting more than two aircraft in sync, and also for getting two or more to do unusual stuff in sync, ie max climb rate till clear of airspace, ultra slow/fast flight etc.
HUGE bonus points for being able to spark a tv debate on 'Carte Blanche' on the dangers of the Joburg ATNS system, esp. if ATNS management is STILL not aware of activity! Automatic winning of entire competition if tv debate composed entirely of people who dont know anything whatsoever about flying!
So, whaddya think?
Point awarded for:
-Synchronised formation turns/manoeuvres
-Perfect separation
-Extra points for calls from panicky citizens on the ground. (Note, must still comply with rules below)
Rules:
-Aircraft must be correctly separated
-Pilots must be completely none the wiser. Any pilot who spots the impromptu compo happening must be fed mucho beer by all ATC involved.
-ATNS managment must not be any the wiser.
-ATC voice must sound as ultra cool as usual. When sure of a winning score, they can say 'Its a winner!' in a very excited voice.
Bonus points awarded for getting more than two aircraft in sync, and also for getting two or more to do unusual stuff in sync, ie max climb rate till clear of airspace, ultra slow/fast flight etc.
HUGE bonus points for being able to spark a tv debate on 'Carte Blanche' on the dangers of the Joburg ATNS system, esp. if ATNS management is STILL not aware of activity! Automatic winning of entire competition if tv debate composed entirely of people who dont know anything whatsoever about flying!
So, whaddya think?
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Brilliant: you must be a pilot.
Extreme boredom is the mother of all invention!
How about holding competitions? ATC with highest stack, before first aircraft declares fuel emergency, wins. Bonus points awarded for originality in explaning reason for delay to irate pilots.
Extreme boredom is the mother of all invention!
How about holding competitions? ATC with highest stack, before first aircraft declares fuel emergency, wins. Bonus points awarded for originality in explaning reason for delay to irate pilots.
Last edited by wheels up; 30th Oct 2004 at 16:42.
