Is the CAA accountable?
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Is the CAA accountable?
Having follwed the EC120 story closely it certainly appears that the industry is rather disgruntled with the SACAA. General sentiment is that since they have become an organization where services are paid for, should the industry not be putting pressure on the CAA for service delivery - i.e. ACCOUNTABILITY.
I have had occasions where a renewal becomes a long drawn out process for me, the client, having to chase the CAA for the "new" license, simply to find that ratings have been removed, resulting in more frustration and chasing. All queries result in "oh but sir you have not sent us the document".
So if the CAA are clamping down on "law breakers" (as those three naughty Durban boys are experiencing) then surely the industry has a legal claim against the CAA when a rating or license has not been renewed properly by the CAA and the individual is expected to abide by the law, i.e. only fly when the license is valid and in your pocket.....Claim for loss of earnings.
Yeh sure they'd pay - the law is written so that the CAA is exonerated from any accountability - so much for a democratic country.
I have had occasions where a renewal becomes a long drawn out process for me, the client, having to chase the CAA for the "new" license, simply to find that ratings have been removed, resulting in more frustration and chasing. All queries result in "oh but sir you have not sent us the document".
So if the CAA are clamping down on "law breakers" (as those three naughty Durban boys are experiencing) then surely the industry has a legal claim against the CAA when a rating or license has not been renewed properly by the CAA and the individual is expected to abide by the law, i.e. only fly when the license is valid and in your pocket.....Claim for loss of earnings.
Yeh sure they'd pay - the law is written so that the CAA is exonerated from any accountability - so much for a democratic country.
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I agree with you!
one would at least expect a decent service for the prices we have to pay. If I give the petrol man a R1 tip for filling my car and washing my windows its because I was happy with the service. At the CAA I have to pay R300 odd to renew a licence and they still dont get it right ?
Cmon there needs to be an improvement ! I cant say they arent trying I do enjoy reading the safety link publication, but hey there is still plenty of work to be done !!
Tt
one would at least expect a decent service for the prices we have to pay. If I give the petrol man a R1 tip for filling my car and washing my windows its because I was happy with the service. At the CAA I have to pay R300 odd to renew a licence and they still dont get it right ?
Cmon there needs to be an improvement ! I cant say they arent trying I do enjoy reading the safety link publication, but hey there is still plenty of work to be done !!
Tt
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There has been a number of threads posted on Pprune, in which the SACAA has been slated for issues ranging from poor service, to the issueing of licenses, airworthiness issues and the irrational and unjustifiable behaviour of some of their officials.
During the last 2 years, the SACAA took a lot of strain, especially since the CEO/Commissioner was suspended along with 65% of all the other staff. That left 35% to do the work, which resulted in bottle necks at the licensing office and other major areas such as operations, airworthiness, accident investigation, legal etc. How can you competently run an organisation the size of the SACAA on a 35% manpower compliment? This my friends, can only happen in the New South Africa, and the results of it shows there right now.
Since October of 2003, things at the SACAA have deterioated to the extend, that right now, it is totally dysfunctional. The SACAA finds itself in this position today, because of mismanagement, lack of knowledge, dishonesty and most of all, political.
It is an established fact that the majority of the aviation industry are not impressed with the SACAA, and this is clearly expressed in Aviation Magazines, on Discussion Forums, at ALPA, CAASA etc. Just about everyone involved in aviation in this country, has at some stage, had some bad experience(s) with the SACAA, whether it was with a license not timeousley issued, an operational inspection that was inexplicably delayed, or whatever. So right now, a lot of people are critisizing the SACAA, and it is with good reason.
The "politically" apointed SACAA board, have failed dismally at their task in managing and controlling the incompetent senior management. Do yourself a favour, talk to the staff that visit with you on inspections, and they will tell you without hesitation how messed up it is, and this is not thumbsucking. Its a fact.
Then lastly, it is an established fact that some of the officials appointed at the SACAA are there because they can not make it anywhere else in the industry. Because they are there, (at the SACAA) they now sit in positions of power, and it is their hobby, NOT THEIR JOB, to screw you from every angle possible, simply because they can, as authorised officers in terms of the Act.
There are many stories about this. From taking a pilot's licence as revenge, to unjustifiably grounding an aircraft in exchange for a bribe, to demand the fitment of stainless steel exhaust pipes to their private cars in exchange to lift the grounding order on a charter aircraft etc. I can open another thread here with stories about immoral and unscrupulous SACAA officials, current and ex. If they read this thread, they will know EXACTLY who they are.
This unfortunately, is the sad tale of the SACAA. Aviation has always been a prestigious industry, but the clowns at the SACAA have dragged it down to the level they are accustomed to.
Blessed will be the day that Jeff Radebe wakes up to this nightmare, fires the SACAA Board, and appoint competent people who have aviation at heart, not only their pockets and the perks that go with it.........
During the last 2 years, the SACAA took a lot of strain, especially since the CEO/Commissioner was suspended along with 65% of all the other staff. That left 35% to do the work, which resulted in bottle necks at the licensing office and other major areas such as operations, airworthiness, accident investigation, legal etc. How can you competently run an organisation the size of the SACAA on a 35% manpower compliment? This my friends, can only happen in the New South Africa, and the results of it shows there right now.
Since October of 2003, things at the SACAA have deterioated to the extend, that right now, it is totally dysfunctional. The SACAA finds itself in this position today, because of mismanagement, lack of knowledge, dishonesty and most of all, political.
It is an established fact that the majority of the aviation industry are not impressed with the SACAA, and this is clearly expressed in Aviation Magazines, on Discussion Forums, at ALPA, CAASA etc. Just about everyone involved in aviation in this country, has at some stage, had some bad experience(s) with the SACAA, whether it was with a license not timeousley issued, an operational inspection that was inexplicably delayed, or whatever. So right now, a lot of people are critisizing the SACAA, and it is with good reason.
The "politically" apointed SACAA board, have failed dismally at their task in managing and controlling the incompetent senior management. Do yourself a favour, talk to the staff that visit with you on inspections, and they will tell you without hesitation how messed up it is, and this is not thumbsucking. Its a fact.
Then lastly, it is an established fact that some of the officials appointed at the SACAA are there because they can not make it anywhere else in the industry. Because they are there, (at the SACAA) they now sit in positions of power, and it is their hobby, NOT THEIR JOB, to screw you from every angle possible, simply because they can, as authorised officers in terms of the Act.
There are many stories about this. From taking a pilot's licence as revenge, to unjustifiably grounding an aircraft in exchange for a bribe, to demand the fitment of stainless steel exhaust pipes to their private cars in exchange to lift the grounding order on a charter aircraft etc. I can open another thread here with stories about immoral and unscrupulous SACAA officials, current and ex. If they read this thread, they will know EXACTLY who they are.
This unfortunately, is the sad tale of the SACAA. Aviation has always been a prestigious industry, but the clowns at the SACAA have dragged it down to the level they are accustomed to.
Blessed will be the day that Jeff Radebe wakes up to this nightmare, fires the SACAA Board, and appoint competent people who have aviation at heart, not only their pockets and the perks that go with it.........
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Accountability at the CAA......... You must be joking!
Officials at the CAA often make mistakes, but these mistakes are swept under the carpets. So no accountability.
In terms of their view, if you're wrong, you're wrong. If you are, in their view, outside of the Act, you're doomed. They will nail you, and neither them or the CAA, can or will be held accountable for any damage(s) you may suffer.
But then what has changed? Some of the officials there are so clever, if GOD wants to know something, HE has to ask them.
Just talk to the helicopter inspector about the difference between a tailrotor and a fenestron...
I have been in helicopter flying for 25 years, hold an ATP (H), but I have NEVER heard of such a load of rubbish, as it was explained to the incident/accident victim on the EC 120 in Durban. Come on Mr. CAA Inspector, who taught you that rubbish? Hopefully not the French!
Officials at the CAA often make mistakes, but these mistakes are swept under the carpets. So no accountability.
In terms of their view, if you're wrong, you're wrong. If you are, in their view, outside of the Act, you're doomed. They will nail you, and neither them or the CAA, can or will be held accountable for any damage(s) you may suffer.
But then what has changed? Some of the officials there are so clever, if GOD wants to know something, HE has to ask them.
Just talk to the helicopter inspector about the difference between a tailrotor and a fenestron...
I have been in helicopter flying for 25 years, hold an ATP (H), but I have NEVER heard of such a load of rubbish, as it was explained to the incident/accident victim on the EC 120 in Durban. Come on Mr. CAA Inspector, who taught you that rubbish? Hopefully not the French!
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During a recent African Airline Congress in Abidjan, our brothers and sisters at the SACAA came under discussion. It was very clear that the global airline industry was beginning to loose face/faith with our SA Counterparts in the Pretoria CAA.
Security, safety, training, education and transfer of skill was some of the key issues raised. ICAO & IATA representatives expressed their concern also.
As fellow aviation regulators, we can only wish that the SACAA will learn from the mistakes made in Zimbabwe, Ghana, DRC etc, and not do the same.
I wish you good luck!
Security, safety, training, education and transfer of skill was some of the key issues raised. ICAO & IATA representatives expressed their concern also.
As fellow aviation regulators, we can only wish that the SACAA will learn from the mistakes made in Zimbabwe, Ghana, DRC etc, and not do the same.
I wish you good luck!
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SACAA
The worst part of the SACAA is that if you err in any way, they nail you. If they err then it is up to you and entirely your responsibility to bring this to their attention and if you do not then refer back to point No.1.
What a wonderful way to run an organization. Your customers are charged an arm and a leg for your services and where you cannot or are unable to provide these services adequately it is the same customers whose responsibility it is to sort the crud out!
If this was an organization which was accountable to shareholders.....?????
What a wonderful way to run an organization. Your customers are charged an arm and a leg for your services and where you cannot or are unable to provide these services adequately it is the same customers whose responsibility it is to sort the crud out!
If this was an organization which was accountable to shareholders.....?????
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With a third world mentality that exists in the SACAA and the political influence we cannot expect anything but individuals within the organization that are either not interested in delivering a service or are on the take.
The simple fact is that if users pay for a service there should be service delivery or recourse. But there cannot be recourse if the law books are written so that the very users that pay the salaries are pushed into a corner where all responsiblity lies on their shoulders. A few ideas:
1) No CAA staff member may work for an outside company - i.e. CAA officials doing charters etc - conflict of interest should be closely monitored.
2) Any monies paid for a service should be refundable. You send a licesne in and get nothing in fourteen days - you get your money back - or at least let the user bill the CAA for lost income - none of use want to get bust without a valid license after all.
3) The Government must set up an independent watchbody (Ombudsman) that is made up of respected members of the aviation community (No I did not say well known companies that have a vested interest) where complaints can be lodged and dealt with.
4) Audit the CAA and individuals within.
Just a few ideas - but I for one believe that the CAA should be accountable and stop this k.
k where the individuals are always being threatened.
The simple fact is that if users pay for a service there should be service delivery or recourse. But there cannot be recourse if the law books are written so that the very users that pay the salaries are pushed into a corner where all responsiblity lies on their shoulders. A few ideas:
1) No CAA staff member may work for an outside company - i.e. CAA officials doing charters etc - conflict of interest should be closely monitored.
2) Any monies paid for a service should be refundable. You send a licesne in and get nothing in fourteen days - you get your money back - or at least let the user bill the CAA for lost income - none of use want to get bust without a valid license after all.
3) The Government must set up an independent watchbody (Ombudsman) that is made up of respected members of the aviation community (No I did not say well known companies that have a vested interest) where complaints can be lodged and dealt with.
4) Audit the CAA and individuals within.
Just a few ideas - but I for one believe that the CAA should be accountable and stop this k.
k where the individuals are always being threatened.
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CANTHOVER
You have some good ideas.
Unfortunately, the SACAA staff are so poorly paid, they have to do outside work. Some of them, are however always away....making big bucks outside of the CAA. It appears that these chaps only use the SACAA for a pension fund benefit!
Come on Mr. Radebe, give us a proper functioning CAA!
You have some good ideas.
Unfortunately, the SACAA staff are so poorly paid, they have to do outside work. Some of them, are however always away....making big bucks outside of the CAA. It appears that these chaps only use the SACAA for a pension fund benefit!
Come on Mr. Radebe, give us a proper functioning CAA!
Paxing All Over The World
This my friends, can only happen in the New South Africa, and the results of it shows there right now.
...
The SACAA finds itself in this position today, because of mismanagement, lack of knowledge, dishonesty and most of all, political.
...
The SACAA finds itself in this position today, because of mismanagement, lack of knowledge, dishonesty and most of all, political.
So, it seems, as if your govt have been super smart and learnt from the 'superior' westerners how to stuff it all up.
One example: BA has just admitted that it is short staffed and has begun to recruit more counter/check-in staff for LHR. I suspect that to meet their projected figures, they will simply cut staff from some other branch.
Welcome to the new world order.
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I like canthover's ideas. It ain't government any more and is supposed to stand financially on its own feet so there should be a customer charter in place.
Referring again to the UK I believe there is a system in place in eg. the Post Office where if you wait in line beyond a specified time, I think it's 5 minutes (?), then you are entitled to compensation due to their failure to satisfy their service obligation. This runs across all services they provide.
Ref. the CAA being so badly paid, have you seen the cars parked outside their office. I should be so lucky as to have a brand new 330 or AMG 320 and they belong to the in house pilots I believe ?
BTW, is it true that there is not one ATPL (rotor or fixed wing) working at CAA anymore ?
Referring again to the UK I believe there is a system in place in eg. the Post Office where if you wait in line beyond a specified time, I think it's 5 minutes (?), then you are entitled to compensation due to their failure to satisfy their service obligation. This runs across all services they provide.
Ref. the CAA being so badly paid, have you seen the cars parked outside their office. I should be so lucky as to have a brand new 330 or AMG 320 and they belong to the in house pilots I believe ?
BTW, is it true that there is not one ATPL (rotor or fixed wing) working at CAA anymore ?
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Sounds about right - CAA DE with a Comm been like that for years.
The rule should be simple - if you work for the CAA you may not form any allegiance with any operator to elliminate the conflict of interest issue!!!!!! Plane ans simple.
So any CAA staff memeber maybe only do testing - and his fee must go straight into the CAA coffers - not into the back pocket, again elliminating the desire to side with co's that feed him lots of tests to do!!!
A clean transparent CAA is a possibility.
The rule should be simple - if you work for the CAA you may not form any allegiance with any operator to elliminate the conflict of interest issue!!!!!! Plane ans simple.
So any CAA staff memeber maybe only do testing - and his fee must go straight into the CAA coffers - not into the back pocket, again elliminating the desire to side with co's that feed him lots of tests to do!!!
A clean transparent CAA is a possibility.
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There are a couple of ATP's (A) at the SACAA. The guys who fly the calibration Citation. The Board Commanders are ATP's.
The Helicopter Boss is a Com with a Grade 1 instructor's and is a DE. It is generally accepted that a Com with a Grade 1, is more senior than an ATP with a Grade 2.
Traditionally, most of the DCA/CAA inspectors that hold DE status, have always done outside work for their own pockets. I mean, just think of Mr. RRR! He used to make 30 to 40K a month just doing initials, IF renewals & tests. This whilst the DCA/CAA paid him about 90K a year those days.
The philosophy of these guys have always been to make as much money as possible outside of the DCA/CAA, as they were so poorly paid there.
A few years ago, a friend of mine bought a small corporate jet. As he was not rated, a CAA staff member flew it for him on weekends away to the Wild Coast, Durban, Cape Town, the Swamps etc. What a jol we had, with the CAA man firmly in the left seat, getting a handsome fee.
This total "freedom of movement" by the CAA oficials, have resulted in the CAA becoming what it is today. Almost a 100% dysfunctional. The officials use the Regulatory Authority as a springboard to adhance their own personal situations, and who would not want to be on the right side of a senior CAA man when the pawpaw strikes the fan????
The Helicopter Boss is a Com with a Grade 1 instructor's and is a DE. It is generally accepted that a Com with a Grade 1, is more senior than an ATP with a Grade 2.
Traditionally, most of the DCA/CAA inspectors that hold DE status, have always done outside work for their own pockets. I mean, just think of Mr. RRR! He used to make 30 to 40K a month just doing initials, IF renewals & tests. This whilst the DCA/CAA paid him about 90K a year those days.
The philosophy of these guys have always been to make as much money as possible outside of the DCA/CAA, as they were so poorly paid there.
A few years ago, a friend of mine bought a small corporate jet. As he was not rated, a CAA staff member flew it for him on weekends away to the Wild Coast, Durban, Cape Town, the Swamps etc. What a jol we had, with the CAA man firmly in the left seat, getting a handsome fee.
This total "freedom of movement" by the CAA oficials, have resulted in the CAA becoming what it is today. Almost a 100% dysfunctional. The officials use the Regulatory Authority as a springboard to adhance their own personal situations, and who would not want to be on the right side of a senior CAA man when the pawpaw strikes the fan????
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Say what????
You've got,
In your dreams baby!!!! Wake up to reality boikie!!!
My smokin' wine corks are still better burning and turning than your mellow soft soaping marshmellows on this one.
Get a life china.
(Edited to add this)
Once I reported a certain low flying incident to the then DCA (to Mr. RRR(?) sh!t...the name slips me now) and fll happened about it. It was an HS125 (not a Hawker whatever something plenty hundred as it is now) but the Captain (of the HS 125 at the time of the low flying...very low!!!!....over a biult up area) and his legal pal (maybe read attorney) friend died in a chopper accident not too long thereafter. The RED FLAGS were ignored!!!!
One of the pax on that low flying HS125 flight still told me how exciting he found it!!! Shame. RIP.
A clean transparent CAA is a possibility
My smokin' wine corks are still better burning and turning than your mellow soft soaping marshmellows on this one.
Get a life china.
(Edited to add this)
Once I reported a certain low flying incident to the then DCA (to Mr. RRR(?) sh!t...the name slips me now) and f
ll happened about it. It was an HS125 (not a Hawker whatever something plenty hundred as it is now) but the Captain (of the HS 125 at the time of the low flying...very low!!!!....over a biult up area) and his legal pal (maybe read attorney) friend died in a chopper accident not too long thereafter. The RED FLAGS were ignored!!!! One of the pax on that low flying HS125 flight still told me how exciting he found it!!! Shame. RIP.
Last edited by BAKELA; 5th Oct 2004 at 19:52.
