Tell me if I'm wrong,
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Tell me if I'm wrong,
Would you agree, that all the training we as pilots do, whether it is SEPT, CRM, Proficiency checks, recurrency training whatever, we all do it for one reason, safety?
Now I would like to think that I am a pritty good pilot, no Chuck Yeager or anything, but I get the pax safely from A to B, which I think we all agree is the only thing that matters.
The question is this, does it make me less of a pilot or a less safer pilot for not knowing how my engine work? Or for not knowing how the fuel pumps are working?
I've done my tours on contract, I've done my time on pistons and I have had my fair share of engine failures or alternator/generator
failures or a burst oil pipe and so forth, like I am sure most of you guys have had. Now you either look for an engineer where you broke down or you phone your homebase engineer and explain to him your problem or at last resort, he comes to you.
So why should I know how my engine work? Will it make me handle the plane better in a tight situation or make me a safer pilot?
Please, if any one have any tales or have had any experiences where your technical knowledge have helped you, then please help me see it your way.
Now I would like to think that I am a pritty good pilot, no Chuck Yeager or anything, but I get the pax safely from A to B, which I think we all agree is the only thing that matters.
The question is this, does it make me less of a pilot or a less safer pilot for not knowing how my engine work? Or for not knowing how the fuel pumps are working?
I've done my tours on contract, I've done my time on pistons and I have had my fair share of engine failures or alternator/generator
failures or a burst oil pipe and so forth, like I am sure most of you guys have had. Now you either look for an engineer where you broke down or you phone your homebase engineer and explain to him your problem or at last resort, he comes to you.
So why should I know how my engine work? Will it make me handle the plane better in a tight situation or make me a safer pilot?
Please, if any one have any tales or have had any experiences where your technical knowledge have helped you, then please help me see it your way.
Last edited by 4HolerPoler; 1st Oct 2004 at 22:34.
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If you believe that flying is only about safety, then why the heck bother doing it? Getting the pax safely from A to B may be the only thing that matters, to you, but I've always been under the impression that there was a whole lot more to it than that. And finally; if you don't know your aircraft technically, God help you!
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Let me see if I can make you 'see it my way' without trying to rip your wings off (like previous replies)
For me, flying is not just something I do, but a way of life. The more I can find out about flying, being it poling, or the machine I'm poling, the happier I am.
Throw every book out there at me, I still have to much to learn, and would hate spinning in now.
For me, flying is not just something I do, but a way of life. The more I can find out about flying, being it poling, or the machine I'm poling, the happier I am.
Throw every book out there at me, I still have to much to learn, and would hate spinning in now.
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You get several different types of people: Those that know everything about their aicraft and those that know snot. The more complex the aircraft becomes the more of a challange it is to know what goes on behind the scenes. But you dont have to. Thats why SRTechnics and Lufthansa Technic are there. I think it would help you to know more about it if you ever get into a non-standard situation but other than that....I landed once at a bush strip in Zim with a flat battery. Luckilly I knew how to jump start it with jumper cables. And luckilly I knew where the battery was!!
I compare it with ATCs. The majority doesn't know how the radar works, how many engines some aircraft have, what their service ceilings are or their normal cruising speeds, but the job gets done safely most of the time. There might be the odd embarassing bla bla on the radio when the ATC wants a B737 to fly the same speed as a B777, but appart from that the job gets done.
You just have to know how to do the job at hand, nothing more is required. Just like playing Space Invaders or Flight Sim. You dont have to know how the Atari or the Computer works in order to play the game and manage to land the aerie on the carrier. Ok, I didnt land on the carrier, but my son did!
I on the other hand like to know everyting, or most of the things there are to know about my job. I think it gives me an advantage, even if its just mentally.
I compare it with ATCs. The majority doesn't know how the radar works, how many engines some aircraft have, what their service ceilings are or their normal cruising speeds, but the job gets done safely most of the time. There might be the odd embarassing bla bla on the radio when the ATC wants a B737 to fly the same speed as a B777, but appart from that the job gets done.
You just have to know how to do the job at hand, nothing more is required. Just like playing Space Invaders or Flight Sim. You dont have to know how the Atari or the Computer works in order to play the game and manage to land the aerie on the carrier. Ok, I didnt land on the carrier, but my son did!
I on the other hand like to know everyting, or most of the things there are to know about my job. I think it gives me an advantage, even if its just mentally.
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Knowing the aircraft systems and how they work helps to give you a better understanding of the capabilities of the aircraft and could help you to make the right decision when the pressure's on.
Think Sioux City.....
Think Sioux City.....
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SRT
I agree with you on the knowledge of sytems giving a better understanding of the machine, however when I think of Sioux City I can't agree. If my memory serves me correctly, they had complete hydraulic failure and their knowledge of aerodynamics and assymetric thrust is what got them down and saved a lot of lives including their own, it was not knowledge of the aircraft's systems.
I agree with you on the knowledge of sytems giving a better understanding of the machine, however when I think of Sioux City I can't agree. If my memory serves me correctly, they had complete hydraulic failure and their knowledge of aerodynamics and assymetric thrust is what got them down and saved a lot of lives including their own, it was not knowledge of the aircraft's systems.
T
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Speaking from an engineers viewpoint, personally I think that the more that aircrew know about the "nuts and bolts" of their machine, the better.
On more than one occasion, I've had to go and rescue an aircraft that's had to make a precautionary landing due to mechanical or electrical problems.
Whilst the pilot might not have know exactly what caused the problem, he has usually known enough to explain on the phone or radio what he thinks caused it. This usually helps as it enables the engineer to decide what spares and tools to bring along, and can save an awful lot of time.
419
On more than one occasion, I've had to go and rescue an aircraft that's had to make a precautionary landing due to mechanical or electrical problems.
Whilst the pilot might not have know exactly what caused the problem, he has usually known enough to explain on the phone or radio what he thinks caused it. This usually helps as it enables the engineer to decide what spares and tools to bring along, and can save an awful lot of time.
419
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DEOne,
Maybe you can tell me, if your job is not taking passengers and cargo from A to B and back, then what do you do? Or are you one of those persons who feels less important when you hear statements like that.
I agree wit Cue Ball, those pilots involved with the Sioux City crash, didn't save lives because of their system or aircraft knowledge but because of their thousands of hours of experience and they ability to pole the aircraft.
You don't have to be an expert of systems to know that when you have no hydraulics that you have to pole with diffrential power levers.
I still think that if I understand what those instruments in the cock pit tells me, and I can read them properly then I don't have to know how my engine works, and that doesn't make me any lesser of a pilot.
Maybe you can tell me, if your job is not taking passengers and cargo from A to B and back, then what do you do? Or are you one of those persons who feels less important when you hear statements like that.
I agree wit Cue Ball, those pilots involved with the Sioux City crash, didn't save lives because of their system or aircraft knowledge but because of their thousands of hours of experience and they ability to pole the aircraft.
You don't have to be an expert of systems to know that when you have no hydraulics that you have to pole with diffrential power levers.
I still think that if I understand what those instruments in the cock pit tells me, and I can read them properly then I don't have to know how my engine works, and that doesn't make me any lesser of a pilot.
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The Sioux City accident would in all likelihood have been a total disaster, had it not been for one of the passengers. He was a United Airlines DC10 Instructor and it was TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE and EXPERTISE that saved the day for most of the crew and passengers.
Quote:
"It just so happened that there was a United Airlines DC-10 pilot instructor sitting in first class. He asked if he could be of any assistance and the captain asked him to see if there was any damage that he could see. The instructor found that the flight controls on the wings weren’t moving and that the horizontal stabilizer had damage to the left and right side. Now that they definitely knew they didn’t have any flight controls the crew began to discuss what ways the aircraft could be maneuvered."
Clearly, it was not a simple case of loss of hydraulics. Furthermore, having attended one of Captain Al Haynes's talks some years ago before his death, it is clear that through a multitude of factors, technical knowledge stands out.
As for facts that prove anyone wrong; that is not the intention. Before any of you lose control of yourselves again, read THIS report and then formulate your replies in such a fashion, so as to keep our profession out of the gutter.
In reply to another question: as a professional pilot my job does involve more than flying from A to B and back again. My job involves constant vigilance against failure or mishap. My job involves learning, teaching, managing, excercising, practising and improving, plus many other aspects which I simply don't have time to cover here today.
Regards
DEOne
Keeping aviation out of the trash can!!!
Quote:
"It just so happened that there was a United Airlines DC-10 pilot instructor sitting in first class. He asked if he could be of any assistance and the captain asked him to see if there was any damage that he could see. The instructor found that the flight controls on the wings weren’t moving and that the horizontal stabilizer had damage to the left and right side. Now that they definitely knew they didn’t have any flight controls the crew began to discuss what ways the aircraft could be maneuvered."
Clearly, it was not a simple case of loss of hydraulics. Furthermore, having attended one of Captain Al Haynes's talks some years ago before his death, it is clear that through a multitude of factors, technical knowledge stands out.
As for facts that prove anyone wrong; that is not the intention. Before any of you lose control of yourselves again, read THIS report and then formulate your replies in such a fashion, so as to keep our profession out of the gutter.
In reply to another question: as a professional pilot my job does involve more than flying from A to B and back again. My job involves constant vigilance against failure or mishap. My job involves learning, teaching, managing, excercising, practising and improving, plus many other aspects which I simply don't have time to cover here today.
Regards
DEOne
Keeping aviation out of the trash can!!!
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Team RamRod
Have to agree with you, as long as you know and understand the principle by which an engine works, you do not have to know the "nuts and bolts".
If the manufacturer wanted that, he would have put an engineer inside.
DEOne
Relax boet!
Have to agree with you, as long as you know and understand the principle by which an engine works, you do not have to know the "nuts and bolts".
If the manufacturer wanted that, he would have put an engineer inside.
DEOne
Relax boet!
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TeamRamrod
When the engine makes a funny grindy noise,and there black smoke puffing out of your PT6,or Lycoming,wouldnt it be nice to know what youve just broken?
Or are you one of those guys who when the engineers have to work throughout the night to change the above mentioned engine,want to know why the engineers didnt clean the windscreen aswell?
I have known many aviators....and you know what? The best ones are the ones who roll up there sleeves (and take off their gloves ) and help change a tyre,or an engine,or even just pop off and get a coke for the poor guys sweating to fix the thingymebob that you just broke.
Having an intimate knowledge of the tech aspects of an aircraft will one day save your life....
but as 126,7 said,you get guys that know everything about their aircraft and those that know snot!!
Stick forward,houses big
Stick back ,houses small!
When the engine makes a funny grindy noise,and there black smoke puffing out of your PT6,or Lycoming,wouldnt it be nice to know what youve just broken?
Or are you one of those guys who when the engineers have to work throughout the night to change the above mentioned engine,want to know why the engineers didnt clean the windscreen aswell?
I have known many aviators....and you know what? The best ones are the ones who roll up there sleeves (and take off their gloves ) and help change a tyre,or an engine,or even just pop off and get a coke for the poor guys sweating to fix the thingymebob that you just broke.
Having an intimate knowledge of the tech aspects of an aircraft will one day save your life....
but as 126,7 said,you get guys that know everything about their aircraft and those that know snot!!
Stick forward,houses big
Stick back ,houses small!
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Dumpvalve. No, he is not dead. He is very much alive and still doing some speeches. He can be "booked" for a speaking engagement here. http://www.aviationspeakers.com/
As for
As for