Legal action against Naunton Pugh t/a Cape Flying services(Europe)
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These students have had to endure wide ranging experiences including marriage break ups, nervous breakdowns and financial ruin etc directly caused by these people. These are not my words but the cold facts.
That is the biggest load of bullsh!t and B0llocks I have ever heard in my entire life!!!!
In the light of having your verbal diahorrea quoted perhaps you can withdraw such a silly statement. Lest you confirm to all of us who read your rantings, with a mixture of boredom and incredulity, that you have the emotional maturity of a spoilt five year old brat.
Pprune mods:
I'm not making a personal attack on Sandy just asking him to defend an absurd statement.
Guys, sometimes in life we suffer injustice, but you know at the end of the day by holding on to the grudges and bitterness we only screw ourselves repeatedly. I reckon this saga has gone on now for two years. I'm not sure what Sandy's flying aspirations are (may be he could fill us in given that he has undoubtably become a celebrity in this forum) but if his primary aim is to be a pilot then surely it would have been more productive to spend the vast sums he has spent on lawyers actually flying instead, and the vast time venting his spleen on Pprune doing something more constructive like studying. I'm sure your average mortal could have polished off their ATPL subjects given the time Sandy has spent on this case.
Finally may be you guys could all meditate on the following:
"Growth in wisdom may be exactly measured by decrease in bitterness." Friedrich Nietzsche
GunsssR4ever
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A kind request please
To the owners and moderators of PPRUNE and fellow regular PPRUNER Contributors:
Lately I have (purposefully) kept out of the firing line but I can not shut my big mouth any longer so excuse the bad English and all … here comes though ..
When Sandy Young started this thread he was immediately put on thin ice by 4HP.
I think the time has come that he has broken the ice, made his point, won the court case and won his cash and good luck to him but let us end this endless Cape Flying Services (CFS) / Gerald Todd (GT) and Naunton Pugh (NP) bashing.
By continuing to run this thread from one man's inputs and then with a few followers has gone to far I think. Please I have no doubt that the court was fair in their judgement and I have no problems in south coast having a problem with GT or PPRUNE Towers with this and that … that is not my point I am going to try and make here.
When I was in George I asked about Sandy and as far as I know they told me the following (verified by his instructor – who even he admitted was professional and dedicated). Sandy was allocated an aircraft and had a very dedicated Instructor who clearly understood that Sandy was on a tight time schedule. It was also made clear to Sandy that it was not going to be easy, and once again on the signed terms and conditions, the very ones our guys signed, he signed that he understood that they would do their best but cannot be held responsible for delays beyond their control. (My son took 6 weeks – the professional institution CFS is grounded them when the wind was too strong … I know of another flight school that pushed the limits and a heap or two of scrap is the result).
The Private Pilots Licence calls for a minimum of 25 hours of dual and 15 solo, and if I remember correct Sandy took 32 odd hours before going solo, in 17 days. That's 7 hours more dual than the PPL requirement according to the SA ‘s CAA.
Dual time takes up more time, if that makes sense, than solo time. Once the student goes solo, the back of the course was broken and the rest is downhill. Sandy shouldn't complain about what he accomplished together with the help of a dedicated Instructor and the facilities made available to him, I very much doubt that there are many schools that could do better ?
I remember an incident when CFS did not have enough serviceable aircraft for our guys on course. What did he do ? He leased in an aircraft (or two) as he said we paid up front and that was the deal … weather permitting and of course some African troubles (too little rice in the stomach)… the guys all finished except one.
Ok … now What about the 100's of people that had good experiences ?
Do you post about the 99 good flights you had with BA ? No the bad one get’s mentioned. For 2 years and 3 months Sandy Young and the anti - GT / CFS / NP had their turn to beat down a Flying School. Surely this is going on too long ? I mean just as soon as the saga disappears Young and other complainants has another story. So for more than 2 years if people search on PPRUNE Africa they will get this negative attitude from CFS / GT / NP.
Yes, as the court case swung Young’s way – he won and he made his point. Why can’t we move on now ?
Now think about it this way if we start a rumour about congoman’s Flying School (Let’s call it Wawwy Wawweck Flying school (if he has a flying school - sorry it is pure co-incidence - just an example)
... Let’s say he flew one of his aircraft 60 hours past an MPI …. one bad mouth and then another and 5 good one's ... people like to read bad news and the bad news will stuck. I promise you overnight Wawwy’s Flying School will take a huge dent.
Now right or wrong if a thread (or THREE as in Sandy Young’s case) runs for 2 years and 3 months … imagine the damage caused ? So yes NP / CFS Europe was wrong according to the court and SY won – well done. In the 2 years imagine how much damage had he caused. All he does is laugh about it and has done NOTHING to further aviation on PPRUNE. (Explained later)
How must Mr Todd / CFS feel at this stage ? I can just imagine the damage it has caused him financially or otherwise his reputation alone.
A Question to PPRUNE TOWERS (Sorry Rob mate no ill-feelings) but you make the following remark on nyati :
Have you done your homework on Sandy Young PPRUNE TOWERS ? The only responsible thing he has done on PPRUNE was to blemish the good name (for 100's of us they have a good name) of GT / CFS and NP.
Yes Nyathi might have defended his boss but what about the 37 pots of Sandy Young taking a crack at GT / CFS.
Sanjo69 has made 37 posts at the time of writing. Of those 36 was on the African Forum. Of the 36, 35 was about himself / NP / CFS or GT. The only other post was in any case also about them. So 36/37 PPRUNE TOWERS is according to my fading skills close to 100 % vs nyati’s one quarter – so why pick on him ? :mhh:
Sorry Rob mate (we had some good posts in the past and some good run abouts according to my fading skills but you are very in favour of Sandy Young (sanjo69) on this one.
I just quickly scanned another “New poster” – 3 posts to be exact. Congoman : Now congoman has made three posts this month and I have it under great confidentiality /trust and inside info from his “trusted insiders” that congoman is non other than Mr W. W. who happens to be the owner of FTC from George who is the biggest competition of GT / CFS. He has posted 3 out of 3 – all degenerating GT / CFS. I wonder why … and what will his motives be
Why not question him on his 100% anti-Todd / CFS / NP sentiment ?
When 4HP gave Sanjo69 leeway to make his case he answered :
That is not the way the two years of exposure ran ??? Sanjo69 never kept his side of the treaty …
Ok now I have it also on good authority that a certain aircraft from a certain flying school in George over flew his aircraft by 60 hrs since an MPI.
Catching the drift ??? Shall I start that rumour ? Blemish someone’s name until it get binned ?
This thread and the other three had done their damage and should be considered for deletion as I can start a few rumours that will blemish a few companies ... oh ... of course I will use another username (called trolling).
You might think two threads … what happened to Irish-Pilot27 ? Yeah we know it was Sandy Young. 4 posts in 2 days and he NEVER , ever appeared again on PPRUNE – all 4 posts degrading / GT / CFS. So three threads running over two years … same story same irk …
PPRUNE TOWERS you did not mention that one either. Sorry I am not taking a dig at you but you should have been with these threads for two plus years as we where and you surely would have seen the inside of this. Hope you understand my point and I say again – it is NOT a dig at you as a person ok ? There are a few more trolls that did their damage and left – never to post again (except south coast of course but he obviously has his reasons why he is / was unhappy)
Last but not least – a real personal appeal from the heart:
My Guns have been blazing today but I also would like to pull them back and blow the smoke away and appeal to everyone here today to respect our fellow aviators. I want to send a personal plea to you as a fellow aviator re Mr Gerald Todd. Yes, some of you might not like him for whatever reason. I have met Gerald twice, send 7 students to him (and a few more is coming) and I have just the greatest respect for him, his business, his personnel and his lovely family.
GT / CFS / NP has taken the punch now - Sandy you won – well done – let it go now mate. (Please) RIP.
I thank you all for reading this.
My best wishes,
Gunship.
Lately I have (purposefully) kept out of the firing line but I can not shut my big mouth any longer so excuse the bad English and all … here comes though ..
When Sandy Young started this thread he was immediately put on thin ice by 4HP.
You're playing it very close to the line Sandy - especially for a 2nd post
By continuing to run this thread from one man's inputs and then with a few followers has gone to far I think. Please I have no doubt that the court was fair in their judgement and I have no problems in south coast having a problem with GT or PPRUNE Towers with this and that … that is not my point I am going to try and make here.
When I was in George I asked about Sandy and as far as I know they told me the following (verified by his instructor – who even he admitted was professional and dedicated). Sandy was allocated an aircraft and had a very dedicated Instructor who clearly understood that Sandy was on a tight time schedule. It was also made clear to Sandy that it was not going to be easy, and once again on the signed terms and conditions, the very ones our guys signed, he signed that he understood that they would do their best but cannot be held responsible for delays beyond their control. (My son took 6 weeks – the professional institution CFS is grounded them when the wind was too strong … I know of another flight school that pushed the limits and a heap or two of scrap is the result).
The Private Pilots Licence calls for a minimum of 25 hours of dual and 15 solo, and if I remember correct Sandy took 32 odd hours before going solo, in 17 days. That's 7 hours more dual than the PPL requirement according to the SA ‘s CAA.
Dual time takes up more time, if that makes sense, than solo time. Once the student goes solo, the back of the course was broken and the rest is downhill. Sandy shouldn't complain about what he accomplished together with the help of a dedicated Instructor and the facilities made available to him, I very much doubt that there are many schools that could do better ?
I remember an incident when CFS did not have enough serviceable aircraft for our guys on course. What did he do ? He leased in an aircraft (or two) as he said we paid up front and that was the deal … weather permitting and of course some African troubles (too little rice in the stomach)… the guys all finished except one.
Ok … now What about the 100's of people that had good experiences ?
Do you post about the 99 good flights you had with BA ? No the bad one get’s mentioned. For 2 years and 3 months Sandy Young and the anti - GT / CFS / NP had their turn to beat down a Flying School. Surely this is going on too long ? I mean just as soon as the saga disappears Young and other complainants has another story. So for more than 2 years if people search on PPRUNE Africa they will get this negative attitude from CFS / GT / NP.
Yes, as the court case swung Young’s way – he won and he made his point. Why can’t we move on now ?
Now think about it this way if we start a rumour about congoman’s Flying School (Let’s call it Wawwy Wawweck Flying school (if he has a flying school - sorry it is pure co-incidence - just an example)
... Let’s say he flew one of his aircraft 60 hours past an MPI …. one bad mouth and then another and 5 good one's ... people like to read bad news and the bad news will stuck. I promise you overnight Wawwy’s Flying School will take a huge dent. Now right or wrong if a thread (or THREE as in Sandy Young’s case) runs for 2 years and 3 months … imagine the damage caused ? So yes NP / CFS Europe was wrong according to the court and SY won – well done. In the 2 years imagine how much damage had he caused. All he does is laugh about it and has done NOTHING to further aviation on PPRUNE. (Explained later)
How must Mr Todd / CFS feel at this stage ? I can just imagine the damage it has caused him financially or otherwise his reputation alone.
A Question to PPRUNE TOWERS (Sorry Rob mate no ill-feelings) but you make the following remark on nyati :
An interesting and valid point nyathi,
Of your 15 posts on this site 4 of them regard CFS - over a quarter according to my fading skills.
A strong history of posting on a single subject or business raises our readers' eyebrows just as much whether a booster or detractor.
As an 'extreme' example consider the 'characters' on the long running huey threads who make no other contribution on any subject anywhere else on the site. It goes both ways doesn't it?
Regards
Rob
Of your 15 posts on this site 4 of them regard CFS - over a quarter according to my fading skills.
A strong history of posting on a single subject or business raises our readers' eyebrows just as much whether a booster or detractor.
As an 'extreme' example consider the 'characters' on the long running huey threads who make no other contribution on any subject anywhere else on the site. It goes both ways doesn't it?
Regards
Rob
Yes Nyathi might have defended his boss but what about the 37 pots of Sandy Young taking a crack at GT / CFS.
Sanjo69 has made 37 posts at the time of writing. Of those 36 was on the African Forum. Of the 36, 35 was about himself / NP / CFS or GT. The only other post was in any case also about them. So 36/37 PPRUNE TOWERS is according to my fading skills close to 100 % vs nyati’s one quarter – so why pick on him ? :mhh:
Sorry Rob mate (we had some good posts in the past and some good run abouts according to my fading skills but you are very in favour of Sandy Young (sanjo69) on this one.
I just quickly scanned another “New poster” – 3 posts to be exact. Congoman : Now congoman has made three posts this month and I have it under great confidentiality /trust and inside info from his “trusted insiders” that congoman is non other than Mr W. W. who happens to be the owner of FTC from George who is the biggest competition of GT / CFS. He has posted 3 out of 3 – all degenerating GT / CFS. I wonder why … and what will his motives be
Why not question him on his 100% anti-Todd / CFS / NP sentiment ?
When 4HP gave Sanjo69 leeway to make his case he answered :
This complaint is not directed at Cape Flying Services George, but, Mr Naunton Pugh, trading as Cape Flying Services (Europe).
Ok now I have it also on good authority that a certain aircraft from a certain flying school in George over flew his aircraft by 60 hrs since an MPI.
Catching the drift ??? Shall I start that rumour ? Blemish someone’s name until it get binned ?
This thread and the other three had done their damage and should be considered for deletion as I can start a few rumours that will blemish a few companies ... oh ... of course I will use another username (called trolling).
You might think two threads … what happened to Irish-Pilot27 ? Yeah we know it was Sandy Young. 4 posts in 2 days and he NEVER , ever appeared again on PPRUNE – all 4 posts degrading / GT / CFS. So three threads running over two years … same story same irk …
PPRUNE TOWERS you did not mention that one either. Sorry I am not taking a dig at you but you should have been with these threads for two plus years as we where and you surely would have seen the inside of this. Hope you understand my point and I say again – it is NOT a dig at you as a person ok ? There are a few more trolls that did their damage and left – never to post again (except south coast of course but he obviously has his reasons why he is / was unhappy)
Last but not least – a real personal appeal from the heart:
My Guns have been blazing today but I also would like to pull them back and blow the smoke away and appeal to everyone here today to respect our fellow aviators. I want to send a personal plea to you as a fellow aviator re Mr Gerald Todd. Yes, some of you might not like him for whatever reason. I have met Gerald twice, send 7 students to him (and a few more is coming) and I have just the greatest respect for him, his business, his personnel and his lovely family.
GT / CFS / NP has taken the punch now - Sandy you won – well done – let it go now mate. (Please) RIP.
I thank you all for reading this.
My best wishes,
Gunship.
Hi Gunship,
I couldn't agree more. Defamation of character comes to mind. This matter has been settled in court and yet Sandy Young continues to smear these people via a number of forums. In these forums Sandy displays a total lack of interest in things aviation and has the sole intent of carrying out his vendetta against CFS and also against Pprune in another forum. (Saying how Pprune closed his precious thread but failing to mention that he has two others running?)
Sandy has done nothing to contribute to aviation and clearly has his own selfish agenda. Over to Pprune...........
Rgds,
I couldn't agree more. Defamation of character comes to mind. This matter has been settled in court and yet Sandy Young continues to smear these people via a number of forums. In these forums Sandy displays a total lack of interest in things aviation and has the sole intent of carrying out his vendetta against CFS and also against Pprune in another forum. (Saying how Pprune closed his precious thread but failing to mention that he has two others running?)
Sandy has done nothing to contribute to aviation and clearly has his own selfish agenda. Over to Pprune...........
Rgds,
GunsssR4ever
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Tx The Claw,
Although I said it in lots of paragraphs and in bad English ... that is what I meant to say.
He had his day ... let's go on now.
As you say over to the master's at PPRUNE - I / we made our point and I respect your point as an "old hand" on PPRUNE.
Cheers and have a good night.
Gunzzzzz
PS: Sorry again for my English (and thanks Bill for the spell checker on WORD )
Although I said it in lots of paragraphs and in bad English ... that is what I meant to say.
He had his day ... let's go on now.
As you say over to the master's at PPRUNE - I / we made our point and I respect your point as an "old hand" on PPRUNE.
Cheers and have a good night.
Gunzzzzz
PS: Sorry again for my English (and thanks Bill for the spell checker on WORD )
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Guns,
We haven't met (or at least I don't think so...) but just wanted to (virtually) shake your hand.
I also have great respect for Mr GT (for many reasons, most of which I'm sure those who know him understand) and even though I haven't seen him in yonks, I know that the day I land in George again, he'll be the first one I call.
Gerald, if you read this, know that Frenchy and familly are with you on this one. Hope all is well on your end and hope to see you soon!
Thanks again Guns for setting the record straight and lets hope that PPRUNE TOWERS does put an end to this useless bashing.
Cheers,
Frenchy
We haven't met (or at least I don't think so...) but just wanted to (virtually) shake your hand.
I also have great respect for Mr GT (for many reasons, most of which I'm sure those who know him understand) and even though I haven't seen him in yonks, I know that the day I land in George again, he'll be the first one I call.
Gerald, if you read this, know that Frenchy and familly are with you on this one. Hope all is well on your end and hope to see you soon!
Thanks again Guns for setting the record straight and lets hope that PPRUNE TOWERS does put an end to this useless bashing.
Cheers,
Frenchy
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Sure hope that this will be the end of this thread. Don't know the school or persons involved but been long enough in aviation to know persons like Sandy.
However, been visiting George last November and what a beautiful place!
However, been visiting George last November and what a beautiful place!
GunsssR4ever
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Guys thanks for the response.
I do not want a rift between us here and a PPRUNE bashing of any sorts but all I am sking the higher eschelon.
I (and others) has exposed the fakes here ... do not support trolls / imposters ..
Sandy made his point - he won - congrats - you have caused a lot of damage Sandy (right or wrong) andf I personally would have taken it further if I was GT / CFS / NP.
But my bottom line ... let's please as Aviators (sorry got to exclude you Sandy) - let's get on with life.
There is a good SA FLIGHT SCHOOLS bashing forum under Private Pilot's forum to err your grieviences. CFS has taken enough I feel.
Cheers,
Gunss
I do not want a rift between us here and a PPRUNE bashing of any sorts but all I am sking the higher eschelon.
I (and others) has exposed the fakes here ... do not support trolls / imposters ..
Sandy made his point - he won - congrats - you have caused a lot of damage Sandy (right or wrong) andf I personally would have taken it further if I was GT / CFS / NP.
But my bottom line ... let's please as Aviators (sorry got to exclude you Sandy) - let's get on with life.
There is a good SA FLIGHT SCHOOLS bashing forum under Private Pilot's forum to err your grieviences. CFS has taken enough I feel.
Cheers,
Gunss
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ZS-NDV (Frenchy)
You can always tell when someone is going to be insulting because they often start off by saying "I don't want to generalise/be rude/funny/sarcastic .... BUT ..... " and off they go.
Read Propbrake's post again and see: -
"... I don't want to generalise, were the ones who came from a small island in the Atlantic "ruled" by a Queen"
Clearly he's having a go as any British person might agree!
Maybe he should start the CFS supporters club as member in chief?!
My suggestion to them is to get their house and kleptocratic country ruled by a racist absent President in order.
You can always tell when someone is going to be insulting because they often start off by saying "I don't want to generalise/be rude/funny/sarcastic .... BUT ..... " and off they go.
Read Propbrake's post again and see: -
"... I don't want to generalise, were the ones who came from a small island in the Atlantic "ruled" by a Queen"
Clearly he's having a go as any British person might agree!
Maybe he should start the CFS supporters club as member in chief?!
My suggestion to them is to get their house and kleptocratic country ruled by a racist absent President in order.
GunsssR4ever
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Good morning all,
First of all let me make it clear that I unwittingly put my nose into this as I saw it as a one-sided story going the wrong way for the wrong reasons.
What started as a Sandy vs NP and CFS (Europe) became a GT / CFS SA bashing.
Then on top of it now CFS's biggest competition also jumped on the band wagon and anonymously tried to bash from the side line. This is NOT The spirit that I know from PPRUNE (after 7 odd years here).
I had a very long conversation with Mr Todd.
What is very clear is that he will not post any further on this issue as he is very, very frustrated, cross, and not a happy man. Not about NP but the fact that his competition went so far as they did.
He has evidence that congoman is Mr W.W. (owner or co -owner of his next biggest competition next door in George) and as such see him as posting anonymously on an open forum, degrading his biggest competition and in person Gerald Todd.
It is very clear to me that they do not see eye-to eye - no two ways about it that this "competition" has come a very long way. I could write volumes full what he told me (and I am sure WW also has another thing or two to say).
To post what Mr Todd told me re WW and his competition willl also not be fair but the fact that congoman / WW says that Mr Todd can expect 3 court cases leaves quite a bit of worry as Mr Todd reckons he can expect a few more due to things he has been doing against him and and and ...
Gents this has become nasty - it is clearly now a ego trip and PPRUNE is used as a bashing forum with Cape Flying Services name heading this and the other thread.
I feel very strongly now that this is not the place to sort out personnal grudges and I for one will refrain from reading / posting anything more on this subject.
To both of you - good luck with your flying schools. SA (and the beautiful George area) needs good flying schools with the correct training being given to the highest standards and the most cost - effective - all in an professional capacity.
We chose CFS. You choose what you want.
God Bless.
Gunship
First of all let me make it clear that I unwittingly put my nose into this as I saw it as a one-sided story going the wrong way for the wrong reasons.
What started as a Sandy vs NP and CFS (Europe) became a GT / CFS SA bashing.
Then on top of it now CFS's biggest competition also jumped on the band wagon and anonymously tried to bash from the side line. This is NOT The spirit that I know from PPRUNE (after 7 odd years here).
I had a very long conversation with Mr Todd.
What is very clear is that he will not post any further on this issue as he is very, very frustrated, cross, and not a happy man. Not about NP but the fact that his competition went so far as they did.
He has evidence that congoman is Mr W.W. (owner or co -owner of his next biggest competition next door in George) and as such see him as posting anonymously on an open forum, degrading his biggest competition and in person Gerald Todd.
It is very clear to me that they do not see eye-to eye - no two ways about it that this "competition" has come a very long way. I could write volumes full what he told me (and I am sure WW also has another thing or two to say).
To post what Mr Todd told me re WW and his competition willl also not be fair but the fact that congoman / WW says that Mr Todd can expect 3 court cases leaves quite a bit of worry as Mr Todd reckons he can expect a few more due to things he has been doing against him and and and ...
Gents this has become nasty - it is clearly now a ego trip and PPRUNE is used as a bashing forum with Cape Flying Services name heading this and the other thread.
I feel very strongly now that this is not the place to sort out personnal grudges and I for one will refrain from reading / posting anything more on this subject.
To both of you - good luck with your flying schools. SA (and the beautiful George area) needs good flying schools with the correct training being given to the highest standards and the most cost - effective - all in an professional capacity.
We chose CFS. You choose what you want.
God Bless.
Gunship
Last edited by Gunship; 5th Aug 2005 at 08:57.
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Gunship: If you grow up in a loving, ethical, moral and trusting environment that is what you expect from others in life however you are quite correct there are certain south africans who are not of that calibre.
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Boring old Sandy
Gunner Man,
1. You sum up the CFS and the RSA training situation very well. Dankie man. I could say more but my lips are sealed lekker vas.
2. Yes, some of your jokes are very bad, it's true, but some are very funny. And the very bad ones are also quite good.
3. Hilaire Belloc once said :
"Be patient with your little boy
and beat him when he sneezes.
He only does it to annoy
because he knows it teases".
4. Phoebe was the daughter of Uranus (check spelling ?)
ou Toppie draadsitter
1. You sum up the CFS and the RSA training situation very well. Dankie man. I could say more but my lips are sealed lekker vas.
2. Yes, some of your jokes are very bad, it's true, but some are very funny. And the very bad ones are also quite good.
3. Hilaire Belloc once said :
"Be patient with your little boy
and beat him when he sneezes.
He only does it to annoy
because he knows it teases".
4. Phoebe was the daughter of Uranus (check spelling ?)
ou Toppie draadsitter
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ou trek donkie: Phoebe is my daughter and though on occasion can be a bit 'spacey'......... bless her, I can guarantee she has never been anywhere near Uranus.
Back to the topic in hand on this thread and it's sister thread 'Cape Flying Services' by Irishpilot27:
I don't think it' a good idea to 'forgive and forget', 'let bygones be bygones' or 'kiss and makeup' as 'for evil to flourish it only takes good men to turn the other way'.
The only thing most people want in their lives is common decency. civility and respect; these are the lifebood of any human interaction and in much the same way we scold our children, smack them on the legs or send them to their bedrooms for a 'quiet time' to instill those qualities so does the law.
Nobody is above the law, not in my country or yours so yes I do think Gerald Todd, NP, CFS should be made accountable for their alleged abuse of students, threatening behaviour towards students and inaccurate accountancy practices and I believe there are several court proceedings in the pipeline to attain just such justice.
.............and if GT should lose one boat or one car in the process of attonement so be it. That's no biggy to him as he's a rich man he's been in the Flying School business a long time ~ 15-20 years.
Intelligent debate on this or the 'Cape Flying Services' thread welcome.
Back to the topic in hand on this thread and it's sister thread 'Cape Flying Services' by Irishpilot27:
I don't think it' a good idea to 'forgive and forget', 'let bygones be bygones' or 'kiss and makeup' as 'for evil to flourish it only takes good men to turn the other way'.
The only thing most people want in their lives is common decency. civility and respect; these are the lifebood of any human interaction and in much the same way we scold our children, smack them on the legs or send them to their bedrooms for a 'quiet time' to instill those qualities so does the law.
Nobody is above the law, not in my country or yours so yes I do think Gerald Todd, NP, CFS should be made accountable for their alleged abuse of students, threatening behaviour towards students and inaccurate accountancy practices and I believe there are several court proceedings in the pipeline to attain just such justice.
.............and if GT should lose one boat or one car in the process of attonement so be it. That's no biggy to him as he's a rich man he's been in the Flying School business a long time ~ 15-20 years.
Intelligent debate on this or the 'Cape Flying Services' thread welcome.
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Off to your room with you !
Phoebe Buffet,
I did not realise you were writing about your daughter, I am sure she is delightful, as are all daughters and I sincerely wish her the best of luck in her aviation career. (Not sure what “Spacey” means, hope it is not the same as “spaced out”, we don’t do that in aviation.)
Thank you so much for explaining to me about Edmund Burke (although in fact, he was writing about bad governments), about the law and decency and smacking children on the legs, it serves me right.
But, listen, I am told that if you smack children on the legs in the UK, where you are, it is considered a very serious crime ? What kind of a parent are you ??? Does she strike you back in self-defence ? What does “Buffet Phoebe” mean in this context ? Do you use it in the biblical sense ? We are getting into heavy ground here, methinks. Leave me out of it.
BTW mate, you have no idea what “my country’ is.
Back to the topic. I think Mr Guns and others have been trying to make the point that this issue has been flogged to death, OTT. I also agree. Look, if you or anyone else has a grievance with what you contracted for, if you feel that someone did not perform according to contract, then you have a simple remedy at law in any country, although some are better than others. It will take you at least five years in Italy, so I am told.
So, if you are convinced you have been cheated, it should be failry easy to establish your case. You should have all the necessary information to support your allegations. If that is so, then go out and try and drill the people you maintain have cheated and abused you (your daughter ?) And I hope you succeed in righting your alleged wrongs, if that is the case. The term “alleged” is used for obvious reasons - I have no idea of the truth of the statements of the various parties, how could I ?
Also I have no idea what the background to your own particular case is, neither shall I re-read this long thread again. Let me just say that I have known many dodgy operations in the South African Flight Training scene and I know of one, at least, doing very nicely thank you right now. These people bring the South African aviation world into bad odour and I deeply resent that. Nevertheless, this has been the case for many years and the CAA has done precious little to stop it. Many of us can recall dodgy operators, but we would never dream of slagging them on line. Of course, I am nowhere referring to Mr Todd or his associates, if that is what your initials mean, I cannot comment on them, neither do I want to.
If on the other hand, you did not make serious enquiries about anyone/everyone you prosed to contract business with in South Africa, or anywhere else, the ancient doctrine of Caveat emptor springs to mind.
Pprune is not a slagging forum and for people to use it as such repeatedly is plain silly and uninformed. And not intelligent either.
Old leg smaaker.
I did not realise you were writing about your daughter, I am sure she is delightful, as are all daughters and I sincerely wish her the best of luck in her aviation career. (Not sure what “Spacey” means, hope it is not the same as “spaced out”, we don’t do that in aviation.)
Thank you so much for explaining to me about Edmund Burke (although in fact, he was writing about bad governments), about the law and decency and smacking children on the legs, it serves me right.
But, listen, I am told that if you smack children on the legs in the UK, where you are, it is considered a very serious crime ? What kind of a parent are you ??? Does she strike you back in self-defence ? What does “Buffet Phoebe” mean in this context ? Do you use it in the biblical sense ? We are getting into heavy ground here, methinks. Leave me out of it.
BTW mate, you have no idea what “my country’ is.
Back to the topic. I think Mr Guns and others have been trying to make the point that this issue has been flogged to death, OTT. I also agree. Look, if you or anyone else has a grievance with what you contracted for, if you feel that someone did not perform according to contract, then you have a simple remedy at law in any country, although some are better than others. It will take you at least five years in Italy, so I am told.
So, if you are convinced you have been cheated, it should be failry easy to establish your case. You should have all the necessary information to support your allegations. If that is so, then go out and try and drill the people you maintain have cheated and abused you (your daughter ?) And I hope you succeed in righting your alleged wrongs, if that is the case. The term “alleged” is used for obvious reasons - I have no idea of the truth of the statements of the various parties, how could I ?
Also I have no idea what the background to your own particular case is, neither shall I re-read this long thread again. Let me just say that I have known many dodgy operations in the South African Flight Training scene and I know of one, at least, doing very nicely thank you right now. These people bring the South African aviation world into bad odour and I deeply resent that. Nevertheless, this has been the case for many years and the CAA has done precious little to stop it. Many of us can recall dodgy operators, but we would never dream of slagging them on line. Of course, I am nowhere referring to Mr Todd or his associates, if that is what your initials mean, I cannot comment on them, neither do I want to.
If on the other hand, you did not make serious enquiries about anyone/everyone you prosed to contract business with in South Africa, or anywhere else, the ancient doctrine of Caveat emptor springs to mind.
Pprune is not a slagging forum and for people to use it as such repeatedly is plain silly and uninformed. And not intelligent either.
Old leg smaaker.
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Really?
ou Trek dronkie to Gunns 9th May 2005 in this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...80#post1877480
Regards to all,
Rob Lloyd
PS Sincere thanks to oDt for the most elegant phrasing I've ever seen for the reason why we fight all the legal threats and pressures placed on the site. It would be so easy to quietly fold every time the lawyers' letters arrive.
Surely the point is you are not” stirring” just by exposing something which is wrong. If it’s not exposed, it will never get put right, a point some people cannot see. Silence is assent mates.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...80#post1877480
Regards to all,
Rob Lloyd
PS Sincere thanks to oDt for the most elegant phrasing I've ever seen for the reason why we fight all the legal threats and pressures placed on the site. It would be so easy to quietly fold every time the lawyers' letters arrive.
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Re: George Tower's reply to Sandy where he says Sandy is talking B/S about an ex-student who's endured personal problems since his experience at CFS.
Just wanted to confirm that Sandy's statement is true. I know the guy he's refering to personally. He's a broken man. Not trying to place all the blame solely on G.T - but he was largely instrumental in turning one mans bad luck into a disaster! Will try to get hold of him so he can post his story. It's for what you've done to guys like N.G (and others) that you deserve to go down G.T.
Just wanted to confirm that Sandy's statement is true. I know the guy he's refering to personally. He's a broken man. Not trying to place all the blame solely on G.T - but he was largely instrumental in turning one mans bad luck into a disaster! Will try to get hold of him so he can post his story. It's for what you've done to guys like N.G (and others) that you deserve to go down G.T.
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It's about that illusive thing called JUSTICE. Heard of it?
Or are we just another one of those 'talking head' devil's advocates? Apologists for iniquitous behaviour in the face of overwhelming evidence. Some would call it 'business.' I call it immoral.
Or are we just another one of those 'talking head' devil's advocates? Apologists for iniquitous behaviour in the face of overwhelming evidence. Some would call it 'business.' I call it immoral.
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Yes I did but been very busy with a thing called AVIATION. I do not understand why your kind of people can't stay away and play with your JUSTICE alone. Nobody ever told you that before?
Why it is so difficult to accept that not everyone can be succesfully thought to fly. Same may apply with your justice bussiness?
Why it is so difficult to accept that not everyone can be succesfully thought to fly. Same may apply with your justice bussiness?