Legal action against Naunton Pugh t/a Cape Flying services(Europe)
(Russian Gynegology)
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All OK and understandable, except I can´t see why this individual had only 3 weeks to do entire course! As far as I can see , most problems in his case are originating from his own far too tight schedule.
Nikolai
Nikolai
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Exactly - it was a bloody tight slot.
Not that a tight slot is a bad thing.......!
This is the root of the problem I feel, students being enticed by a PPL in 3 weeks. If a person is sharp and on the ball that is tight. If they are just average or even below average they have not much chance of this. A PPL is a big thing and shouldn't be de valued. If a school is going to try to sell them an intense PPL, there should be a selection process.
As for soloing in 45 mins or whatever you guys say you did it in then well done. Did you feel you were safe and could have coped with any probs that came up? Around the 10 hour mark is a level I feel gives enough practice at failures, stalls in all configs etc.
SK
Not that a tight slot is a bad thing.......!
This is the root of the problem I feel, students being enticed by a PPL in 3 weeks. If a person is sharp and on the ball that is tight. If they are just average or even below average they have not much chance of this. A PPL is a big thing and shouldn't be de valued. If a school is going to try to sell them an intense PPL, there should be a selection process.
As for soloing in 45 mins or whatever you guys say you did it in then well done. Did you feel you were safe and could have coped with any probs that came up? Around the 10 hour mark is a level I feel gives enough practice at failures, stalls in all configs etc.
SK
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There obviously is exemptions but in my experience when the student is older than 25 years it will take longer to reach required standards. When over 40 it gets even more time consuming task and I am not talking about required flight hours only. I mean the entire process takes longer to complete. Don´t know the age of student in this case.
However, usually older students are well aware of their personal learning capabilities and intelligent enough to allow reasonable time for safe learning process.
Nikolai
However, usually older students are well aware of their personal learning capabilities and intelligent enough to allow reasonable time for safe learning process.
Nikolai
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In Sandys case
He was enticed with the offer of a 3 week PPL without anyone ever taking into consideration apptitude and or natural ability, he was obviously concerned that the 3 weeks allocated was well short for his own progression and in my experience is too short for most budding PPL students. The whole "PPL in 3 weeks" advert is unrealistic and should be foretold with a long list of if, but's and maybes.
Regards
Staller
p.s
I see CFS-CFI has removed his thread recently. How bizarre he doesnt take time to defend the school!
Regards
Staller
p.s
I see CFS-CFI has removed his thread recently. How bizarre he doesnt take time to defend the school!
Last edited by Staller; 22nd Jul 2004 at 16:37.
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Lets see the evidence
The case here seems to me to revolve around the alledged mis-selling of a service. Let's see the evidence. Perhaps Sandy could post a copy of the advert he replied to so we can all judge for ourselves, whether the kind of advert he responded to would mislead.
The case here seems to me to revolve around the alledged mis-selling of a service. Let's see the evidence. Perhaps Sandy could post a copy of the advert he replied to so we can all judge for ourselves, whether the kind of advert he responded to would mislead.
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Howzit Guns
We all see things differently, boet. All I'm saying is that you see things one way due to positive experiences and Sandy sees things a little differently. These open fora are all about dragging the skeletons kicking and screaming out of the closet and rattling a few bones. If Sandy has a gripe I see no problem with him airing it as long as it doesn't get too personal (a bit of banter is always welcome as far as I'm concerned).
As far as being long winded and boring goes, we all go there occasionally and carping on can get a bit tedious but a friendly reminder along the lines of "@#$^&(& jou ^^*#$%!" sometimes gets results
.
In the end we all learn something with any luck, which is what makes this place worthwhile........
Hope to see ya in CT next week if I don't get stuffed around here too much
.
We all see things differently, boet. All I'm saying is that you see things one way due to positive experiences and Sandy sees things a little differently. These open fora are all about dragging the skeletons kicking and screaming out of the closet and rattling a few bones. If Sandy has a gripe I see no problem with him airing it as long as it doesn't get too personal (a bit of banter is always welcome as far as I'm concerned).
As far as being long winded and boring goes, we all go there occasionally and carping on can get a bit tedious but a friendly reminder along the lines of "@#$^&(& jou ^^*#$%!" sometimes gets results
.In the end we all learn something with any luck, which is what makes this place worthwhile........
Hope to see ya in CT next week if I don't get stuffed around here too much
.
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Lets get one thing straight. No-one enticed Mr Young to do anything. He is over 40 years old and made his own decision to try for the PPL in three weeks.
I told him that, if he wanted to do the course in three weeks, he would need to go to SA armed with a good working knowledge of the theory and he said he would do so.
I also told him that it would be better if he could find four weeks, but he said he could not.
I also told him that, in seven years of representing CFS in the UK & Europe, I had sent two students out to do the course in three weeks, and they both passed - one a lady who was given the course as her 50th birthday present.
So it can be done - if you work at the theory beforehand and are a good enough student pilot when doing the training.
CFS warned Mr Young after about 15 hours instructor training that, to gain the PPL, he was going to need more than the mandatory 45 hours minimum flying. As I've said before, he took over 32 hours hours before CFS would let him go solo. In the seven years I've worked with CFS I have never known a student I've sent out to take longer than 18.5 hours to go solo - and that was a student aged 67!!
I have yet to hear from the court re the outcome of my application to have the judgment set aside or revoked. When I do, whichever way the court decides, I'll post a factual note here.
Thank you for your time in reading this,
Naunton Pugh
Looking after CFS in the UK & in Europe.
I told him that, if he wanted to do the course in three weeks, he would need to go to SA armed with a good working knowledge of the theory and he said he would do so.
I also told him that it would be better if he could find four weeks, but he said he could not.
I also told him that, in seven years of representing CFS in the UK & Europe, I had sent two students out to do the course in three weeks, and they both passed - one a lady who was given the course as her 50th birthday present.
So it can be done - if you work at the theory beforehand and are a good enough student pilot when doing the training.
CFS warned Mr Young after about 15 hours instructor training that, to gain the PPL, he was going to need more than the mandatory 45 hours minimum flying. As I've said before, he took over 32 hours hours before CFS would let him go solo. In the seven years I've worked with CFS I have never known a student I've sent out to take longer than 18.5 hours to go solo - and that was a student aged 67!!
I have yet to hear from the court re the outcome of my application to have the judgment set aside or revoked. When I do, whichever way the court decides, I'll post a factual note here.
Thank you for your time in reading this,
Naunton Pugh
Looking after CFS in the UK & in Europe.
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Naughton Pugh
Are you telling me that there is nothing in your literature that "sells" your three week PPL.
I FOR ONE WAS ENTICED Mr.Pugh
I WAS TOLD BY YOURSELF THAT I WOULD NEED A MAXIMUM OF FOUR WEEKS AND IT ACTUALLY TOOK ME SIX, AND THAT WAS PUSHING IT!!!!
Also, you forgot to mention the other 3 week PPL student you sent out who I understand was a journalist of some description and was reporting on the "3 week PPL " falacy, con, heist whatever you want to call it. I also understood CFS pulled out all the stops to PASS him and there was rumour that he wasnt even upto PPL standard yet was still passed on his GFT.
You may be looking after CFS in the UK and Europe but you sure aint lookin after the clientele, just your ŁŁŁ!
I FOR ONE WAS ENTICED Mr.Pugh
I WAS TOLD BY YOURSELF THAT I WOULD NEED A MAXIMUM OF FOUR WEEKS AND IT ACTUALLY TOOK ME SIX, AND THAT WAS PUSHING IT!!!!
Also, you forgot to mention the other 3 week PPL student you sent out who I understand was a journalist of some description and was reporting on the "3 week PPL " falacy, con, heist whatever you want to call it. I also understood CFS pulled out all the stops to PASS him and there was rumour that he wasnt even upto PPL standard yet was still passed on his GFT.
You may be looking after CFS in the UK and Europe but you sure aint lookin after the clientele, just your ŁŁŁ!
Gatvol
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Staller writes:"I FOR ONE WAS ENTICED Mr.Pugh
I WAS TOLD BY YOURSELF THAT I WOULD NEED A MAXIMUM OF FOUR WEEKS AND IT ACTUALLY TOOK ME SIX, AND THAT WAS PUSHING IT!!!!"
A Long thread going nowhere. Even in the U.S. Army it takes nine months to spit out a comercially trained Pilot. Average solo was 8-12 hours if I remember.
Someone who wants to do stuff like this overnight HAD better be prepared to get his brain wrung out for sure. Specially considering all the BS that one has to accomplish with the CAA exams etc. Much harder than anything the FAA will dump on you.
I guess Stallers comments above just go to show some folks are smarter than others........or is it the otherway around.
I WAS TOLD BY YOURSELF THAT I WOULD NEED A MAXIMUM OF FOUR WEEKS AND IT ACTUALLY TOOK ME SIX, AND THAT WAS PUSHING IT!!!!"
A Long thread going nowhere. Even in the U.S. Army it takes nine months to spit out a comercially trained Pilot. Average solo was 8-12 hours if I remember.
Someone who wants to do stuff like this overnight HAD better be prepared to get his brain wrung out for sure. Specially considering all the BS that one has to accomplish with the CAA exams etc. Much harder than anything the FAA will dump on you.
I guess Stallers comments above just go to show some folks are smarter than others........or is it the otherway around.
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I was in Gerald's office this morning and PPRUNE was discussed, on asking what Cape Flying Services is going to do about it, his response was "nothing, if a person takes the time to read the whole thing, it should quickly become clear what went down and what Sandy Young is all about...its getting old and people are tired of his nagging".
You ask why Gerald Todd hasn't responded, I believe he already has, and if you read his post, and all of Mr. Young's you might conclude that this whole thing is nonsense. I spent just over a year at Cape Flying Services, doing my PPL/CPL/TWIN/IFR and Instructors ratings, loved every minute of it. Today I work for Cape Flying Services and know exactly what they promise and don't. Cape Flying Services advertise a Private Pilots Course saying that it can be done in three weeks however suggesting a forth and even then there is no guarantee that you will meet the required standard. Here is a copy of a paragraph signed by both Mr. Young and Lee Gearing taken directly from the Terms and Conditions form:
" Understands that every effort will be made to complete training on time, but Cape Flying Services George CC will not be held responsible for circumstance causing delays beyond their control."
Mr Young says he paid for 45 hours and only got 33, fails to acknowledge that dual time costs more than solo, and that 5 of the hours were on a simulator. Besides this, I know for a fact that Cape Flying Services South Africa paid him back everything he wanted refunded, except for the non refundable deposit of 350 pounds paid to Naunton Pugh.
I do however find it interesting that both Mr Young and Mr Gearing wanted to return to Cape Flying Services. The fact that Mr Gearing was told to take his 3000 pounds and spend them elsewhere, peeved him off, as for Mr Young, well.... You have to be joking right?
I doubt we will hear from CFI-CFS on this site again, and Gerald didn't remove his post, the moderator did. It addressed a statement made by Mr Young regarding certain personal accusations. On this site its fine to accuse a company of wrongdoing, but don't dare have it the other way round,
you might note that your post was also adjusted.
You ask why Gerald Todd hasn't responded, I believe he already has, and if you read his post, and all of Mr. Young's you might conclude that this whole thing is nonsense. I spent just over a year at Cape Flying Services, doing my PPL/CPL/TWIN/IFR and Instructors ratings, loved every minute of it. Today I work for Cape Flying Services and know exactly what they promise and don't. Cape Flying Services advertise a Private Pilots Course saying that it can be done in three weeks however suggesting a forth and even then there is no guarantee that you will meet the required standard. Here is a copy of a paragraph signed by both Mr. Young and Lee Gearing taken directly from the Terms and Conditions form:
" Understands that every effort will be made to complete training on time, but Cape Flying Services George CC will not be held responsible for circumstance causing delays beyond their control."
Mr Young says he paid for 45 hours and only got 33, fails to acknowledge that dual time costs more than solo, and that 5 of the hours were on a simulator. Besides this, I know for a fact that Cape Flying Services South Africa paid him back everything he wanted refunded, except for the non refundable deposit of 350 pounds paid to Naunton Pugh.
I do however find it interesting that both Mr Young and Mr Gearing wanted to return to Cape Flying Services. The fact that Mr Gearing was told to take his 3000 pounds and spend them elsewhere, peeved him off, as for Mr Young, well.... You have to be joking right?
I doubt we will hear from CFI-CFS on this site again, and Gerald didn't remove his post, the moderator did. It addressed a statement made by Mr Young regarding certain personal accusations. On this site its fine to accuse a company of wrongdoing, but don't dare have it the other way round,
you might note that your post was also adjusted.
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Roll up Roll up
Welcome aboard the great CFS bandwagon !!!!!!!!!
"where every customer is welcome aboard" , as long as you pay up we dont give a sh1t
"caveat emptor", a bit tricky from the other side of the world!!!
Theres a saying, for every satisfied customer another one is told of the satisfaction.
For every unsatisfied customer, another TEN are told of their dis-satisfaction.
To quote a relevant lyric
"The damage is done so I guess I'll be leaving."
PS Mr Stark- In our country it is a common thing to find polite trust worthy people, who EVEN GIVE FLIGHT SCHOOLS A SECOND CHANCE!
"where every customer is welcome aboard" , as long as you pay up we dont give a sh1t
"caveat emptor", a bit tricky from the other side of the world!!!
Theres a saying, for every satisfied customer another one is told of the satisfaction.
For every unsatisfied customer, another TEN are told of their dis-satisfaction.
To quote a relevant lyric
"The damage is done so I guess I'll be leaving."
PS Mr Stark- In our country it is a common thing to find polite trust worthy people, who EVEN GIVE FLIGHT SCHOOLS A SECOND CHANCE!
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Sanj69 - What a STRANGE name ......
Sanjo69
When will you realise you are utterly, hopelessly boring. Rhodie tells it right. You are trying to exploit this site for your own questionable purposes.
Give us all a break and disappear, please man.
oTd
Ever so sorry, this should have been on the " LEGAL ACTION AGAINST NAUNTON PUGH t/a CAPE FLYING SERVICES (EUROPE) "
page
Sorry
oTd
When will you realise you are utterly, hopelessly boring. Rhodie tells it right. You are trying to exploit this site for your own questionable purposes.
Give us all a break and disappear, please man.
oTd
Ever so sorry, this should have been on the " LEGAL ACTION AGAINST NAUNTON PUGH t/a CAPE FLYING SERVICES (EUROPE) "
page
Sorry
oTd
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Sanj69 - What a STRANGE name ......
Sanjo69
When will you realise you are utterly, hopelessly boring. Rhodie tells it right. You are trying to exploit this site for your own questionable purposes.
Give us all a break and disappear, please man.
oTd
When will you realise you are utterly, hopelessly boring. Rhodie tells it right. You are trying to exploit this site for your own questionable purposes.
Give us all a break and disappear, please man.
oTd
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There have been no changes made to this thread by the moderators - I say again, threads will only be altered or removed if they contain foul language, are considered to be blatantly offensive to all or certain groups or if the post contains what is considered free advertising.
Often the threads are removed or altered by the poster themselves, creating a false picture of posts, subsequent to the altered post.
4HP
Often the threads are removed or altered by the poster themselves, creating a false picture of posts, subsequent to the altered post.
4HP
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staller,
your country and trustworthy people in the same sentence may cause considerable mirth amongst many people in the southern half of Africa.
caveat emptor, is a bit tricky from the other side of the world.
So why did you deal with the other side of the world?
your country and trustworthy people in the same sentence may cause considerable mirth amongst many people in the southern half of Africa.
caveat emptor, is a bit tricky from the other side of the world.
So why did you deal with the other side of the world?
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Dear All,
Just came across this thread by chance and as I also went to CFS in 1996/97 for a CPL/IR/Twin I wanted to add my comment to this list.
For one, I had the time of my life at CFS: Great people (Howzit Gérald!!
, Frenchy here!) great place and great flying environment.
Throughout the 9 months of my training I saw a number of PPL students (one of which was to become my wife...
) and I have to say that there are those who can fly and those who are just not made for 3D environments and who should stick to cycling. Gerald, remember Amina? What was it, 55hrs before solo?
M. Young, sorry, you just didn't make the cut. No point in trying to find excuses and transferring the fault onto others. You can't fly and never will be able to. Just like I'll never be able to be an astronaut.
Time spent at CFS is one of the best memories I have and I would like to take the opportunity to thank all the staff there for their kindness and great attitude.
Hope to go there soon again!
Frenchy - ZS-NDV
Just came across this thread by chance and as I also went to CFS in 1996/97 for a CPL/IR/Twin I wanted to add my comment to this list.
For one, I had the time of my life at CFS: Great people (Howzit Gérald!!
, Frenchy here!) great place and great flying environment. Throughout the 9 months of my training I saw a number of PPL students (one of which was to become my wife...
) and I have to say that there are those who can fly and those who are just not made for 3D environments and who should stick to cycling. Gerald, remember Amina? What was it, 55hrs before solo?M. Young, sorry, you just didn't make the cut. No point in trying to find excuses and transferring the fault onto others. You can't fly and never will be able to. Just like I'll never be able to be an astronaut.
Time spent at CFS is one of the best memories I have and I would like to take the opportunity to thank all the staff there for their kindness and great attitude.
Hope to go there soon again!
Frenchy - ZS-NDV
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Hey Frenchy Nick,
Comment ca va, c'est bien ?
Gary, here the flying Dutchman !!
I also read this thread thread by chance.
Went to the US in 1996 and didn't regret that for one moment !!
All these promisses
about flying Albatrosses and working in Africa as a pilot or Flight Instructor...........yeah sure........lets get real.....!
The problem is that ''man'' ( Male or Female for this matter ..!!) who have a dream.... which they believe in........ want to make this dream come true and rely on man's word and sincerety !!
And that just does not work in Aviation in general ..and Flight schools in particular !!!!!!
But other than that Nick, I am glad your still married to that very good looking Swiss lady....
And he.....I think you would be a great astronaut......as long as they don't build any low level powerlines up there......!!!!!!
Take care my friend....!!!
Nothing beats a Lear at 450...!!!
Gary
Votre Ami !!
Comment ca va, c'est bien ?
Gary, here the flying Dutchman !!
I also read this thread thread by chance.
Went to the US in 1996 and didn't regret that for one moment !!
All these promisses
about flying Albatrosses and working in Africa as a pilot or Flight Instructor...........yeah sure........lets get real.....!The problem is that ''man'' ( Male or Female for this matter ..!!) who have a dream.... which they believe in........ want to make this dream come true and rely on man's word and sincerety !!
And that just does not work in Aviation in general ..and Flight schools in particular !!!!!!
But other than that Nick, I am glad your still married to that very good looking Swiss lady....
And he.....I think you would be a great astronaut......as long as they don't build any low level powerlines up there......!!!!!!
Take care my friend....!!!
Nothing beats a Lear at 450...!!!
Gary
Votre Ami !!
Last edited by 4HolerPoler; 27th Jul 2004 at 05:49.
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Wrong!
Mr.Pugh my name was withheld through
"FEAR OF VICTIMISATION"
although I did post it once in the original thread regarding CFS. Mr Todd then did a U turn on his statement
"Staller please e-mail me, perhaps we can still resolve things, on the face of it this seems so silly, though I can’t remember what made me so angry.
Gerald Todd" He then BLANKED my attempts then later went on the verbally abuse me as I predicted.
Perhaps what made him so angry was the fact I had to visit a
SOLICITOR WITH ANOTHER CFS PUPIL WHILST MY PPL WAS DREADFULLY OFF TARGET AND HIS CPL THE SAME!!
Check your PM
Check my file,
check the facts.
Staller
P.S I didnt say you had sent the journalist to do the 3 week PPL.
"FEAR OF VICTIMISATION"
although I did post it once in the original thread regarding CFS. Mr Todd then did a U turn on his statement
"Staller please e-mail me, perhaps we can still resolve things, on the face of it this seems so silly, though I can’t remember what made me so angry.
Gerald Todd" He then BLANKED my attempts then later went on the verbally abuse me as I predicted.
Perhaps what made him so angry was the fact I had to visit a
SOLICITOR WITH ANOTHER CFS PUPIL WHILST MY PPL WAS DREADFULLY OFF TARGET AND HIS CPL THE SAME!!
Check your PM
Check my file,
check the facts.
Staller
P.S I didnt say you had sent the journalist to do the 3 week PPL.
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I have heard about this string through the aviation grapevine.
By the sounds of your reply Mr %%%%% pugh.Your %%%%%bricks.Lets face it we know its not the first time you have %%%%% people off.It appears to me that you have been warned by the lawyers, if you have been keeping your assets minimum.Sounds like a man who is in big trouble.I think their coming to get you.
Well done sandy.
You got the %%%%% to squirm.and pay back a little of their fortune.
Their is a lot of people baying for pughs blood.Seeing sandys outcome will give them confidence to pursue action
You seem to have ignored the rules you signed up to. If you want to participate in this thread or on this forum you should realize ( as if you didn't already ) that it is not OK to hurl abuse at an individual, it is not OK to be offensive and it is not OK to use offensive language............OK !
By the sounds of your reply Mr %%%%% pugh.Your %%%%%bricks.Lets face it we know its not the first time you have %%%%% people off.It appears to me that you have been warned by the lawyers, if you have been keeping your assets minimum.Sounds like a man who is in big trouble.I think their coming to get you.
Well done sandy.
You got the %%%%% to squirm.and pay back a little of their fortune.
Their is a lot of people baying for pughs blood.Seeing sandys outcome will give them confidence to pursue action
You seem to have ignored the rules you signed up to. If you want to participate in this thread or on this forum you should realize ( as if you didn't already ) that it is not OK to hurl abuse at an individual, it is not OK to be offensive and it is not OK to use offensive language............OK !
Last edited by Jetdriver; 11th Aug 2004 at 19:28.