Nigerian expat f/o's
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I am very sorry this discussion went in other,although interesting direction. Either nobody can give me the answer on possible new law or nobady wants. Regarding of competnce of local crews in Africa maybe without emotions we should adress to statistics. How many inci-accidents happend with locals and how many with at least one expat in cockpit? Period. No need for strong words. Competence,training and background only. No black, white,yellow as far as I am concerned. Flagcarrires do not allow expatts, because of that they are sometimes charity institutions for low performers with appropriate passport. Thank God there are some airlines beside those!
Rumour has it that the airlines in the Middle East are also moving away from ex-pat pilots.
Thinking about my chances as a FO in NIgeria,
pretty much down the drain now huh?
Can anybody categorically state that the chances of a job F/W or Rotary are slim in Nigeria?
Or like pretty anywhere else does it depend who you know?
Thinking about my chances as a FO in NIgeria,
pretty much down the drain now huh?
Can anybody categorically state that the chances of a job F/W or Rotary are slim in Nigeria?
Or like pretty anywhere else does it depend who you know?
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Expat F/Os?
Just sticking to the question of whether one can resonably hope for a job in Nigeria (the only place I know anything about) as an expatriate F/O then the answer has to be NO. This is because there are plenty of fully-qualified Nigerian pilots who are out of work.
From that one could go on to ask if these local pilots are any good at all, but what would be the point?
I myself once experienced the German LuftfahrtBehinderungsAmt flipping the doormat over to the side that read GO AWAY. They seemed to have some mandate to preserve Jobs For the Boys. I felt a bit bitter about this for various reasons but I did just go away, back to the only place I had some contacts... Nigeria. Go figure.
I have flown with local pilots who were pretty clearly much better than I (and much better qualified as well) and I have flown with others who must have got their licenses off the backs of cereal boxes, but I could say the same about Europeans and about some of my fellow Americans too. So?
There's not much point to banging on a closed door; go find someplace they actually want to hire you, is my advice. That's how I ended up back in the White Man's Grave. Call me 'just lucky' I guess!
From that one could go on to ask if these local pilots are any good at all, but what would be the point?
I myself once experienced the German LuftfahrtBehinderungsAmt flipping the doormat over to the side that read GO AWAY. They seemed to have some mandate to preserve Jobs For the Boys. I felt a bit bitter about this for various reasons but I did just go away, back to the only place I had some contacts... Nigeria. Go figure.
I have flown with local pilots who were pretty clearly much better than I (and much better qualified as well) and I have flown with others who must have got their licenses off the backs of cereal boxes, but I could say the same about Europeans and about some of my fellow Americans too. So?
There's not much point to banging on a closed door; go find someplace they actually want to hire you, is my advice. That's how I ended up back in the White Man's Grave. Call me 'just lucky' I guess!
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Sorry to intrude on this thread but I noticed that quite a few of you have ties to Nigerian Aviation. I am trying to find anyone who flew for Chrome Air owned by Emeka Offor. I am thinking of investing in a company of his and I am trying to get a feel for the man....
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If they were competent enough to actually run and maintain a national airline, they would be able to train their own pilots, wouldn’t they.
But they’re not. There's too much greed, corruption and incompetence. You are talking about a country where people have "Warning! This house is not for sale" daubed on their walls so that their houses don't get sold out from under them by conmen whilst they are out shopping. Nigeria isn't exactly the most efficient place in the world and what makes it like that are the people who live there, this is an inescapable fact. If the majority of Nigerians were competent and smart (qualities you would really hope for in a pilot) the the country wouldn't be in the state it's in.
But they're not. It is the 8th largest exporter of oil in the world, but the world's 20th poorest nation. Go figure.
If the (Nigerian) airline operators there weren’t just in it for a quick and dirty, lease-aircraft, no FDP limits, maintenance-on-the-apron, bare-minimum buck, things would be different.
But they’re not. As for competency, take IRS airlines for example. The SA contractors left last December, leaving 3 operational F28’s. Now (3 months later) there is only 1 operational F28. Their AOC was withdrawn recently for safety concerns. Sounds pretty incompetent to me, letting it all go down the tubes in 3 months.
The fact that no-one is surprised speaks volumes.
What happened recently to the Hydro 747 there is shocking, what if that had been a Lufthansa A340? But after a few small reports it's swept under the mat and forgotten about. Because it's Africa, and especially, it's Nigeria. "No wonder.." Do you think Hydro are getting any compensation from the Nigerian government?
There's a reason that Africa as a whole is in the sh1t state that it is in, and that is that the people who inhabit the countries can't figure out how to make sure they don't get screwed by the people who run these countries and the people who run these countries can't do it without screwing the people that inhabit them.
But they’re not. There's too much greed, corruption and incompetence. You are talking about a country where people have "Warning! This house is not for sale" daubed on their walls so that their houses don't get sold out from under them by conmen whilst they are out shopping. Nigeria isn't exactly the most efficient place in the world and what makes it like that are the people who live there, this is an inescapable fact. If the majority of Nigerians were competent and smart (qualities you would really hope for in a pilot) the the country wouldn't be in the state it's in.
But they're not. It is the 8th largest exporter of oil in the world, but the world's 20th poorest nation. Go figure.
If the (Nigerian) airline operators there weren’t just in it for a quick and dirty, lease-aircraft, no FDP limits, maintenance-on-the-apron, bare-minimum buck, things would be different.
But they’re not. As for competency, take IRS airlines for example. The SA contractors left last December, leaving 3 operational F28’s. Now (3 months later) there is only 1 operational F28. Their AOC was withdrawn recently for safety concerns. Sounds pretty incompetent to me, letting it all go down the tubes in 3 months.
The fact that no-one is surprised speaks volumes.
What happened recently to the Hydro 747 there is shocking, what if that had been a Lufthansa A340? But after a few small reports it's swept under the mat and forgotten about. Because it's Africa, and especially, it's Nigeria. "No wonder.." Do you think Hydro are getting any compensation from the Nigerian government?
There's a reason that Africa as a whole is in the sh1t state that it is in, and that is that the people who inhabit the countries can't figure out how to make sure they don't get screwed by the people who run these countries and the people who run these countries can't do it without screwing the people that inhabit them.
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JG1,
You sound like you lost all the trust for our african brothers...
Never mind, I fully agree with you. Nigeria especially is something very very special, in aviation as well on other businesses. But the same time there is unlimited possibilities to make money in aviation, what is not a case in most part of "civilized world".
Wait and see, sooner or later someone will get it right!
Blues
You sound like you lost all the trust for our african brothers...
Never mind, I fully agree with you. Nigeria especially is something very very special, in aviation as well on other businesses. But the same time there is unlimited possibilities to make money in aviation, what is not a case in most part of "civilized world".
Wait and see, sooner or later someone will get it right!
Blues
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Observations from the Sub-Saharan
I, like many here, have been working and living in Africa for the majority of the last ten years. There are many reasons why Africa is the corrupt, mismanaged, mired in poverty state that it is, but the number one reason is because 'you get the government that you deserve or are willing to fight for'
In examining the root(s) of the problem(s) it does nothing to say things like ".........well there is corruption, mismanagement in other parts of the world", or words to that effect. Logically extending that arguement would have western society in the same mess as African society, which it clearly is not.
For far too long most ( and I mean 'most' not 'all' ) Africans are content so long as there is a roof over thier heads, a little bread in their belly and a cell phone on thier belt. You must believe there is more than this and some things are worth fighting for.
We in the western world must remember that without western 'intervention' the sum total of African technology (sub-sahran) would be exactly where it was 600yrs ago, maybe even 10, 000yrs ago.
The one's I most feel empathy for are those Africans who are driven to improve their lives, change their societies, who are competent , talented and /or well educated and who, by accident of birth, are not tied into the web of cronyism, nepotism and corruption that rules Africa. You can make all the political correct excuses for the failure of African society but in the end, you reap what sow and not much is being sown there.
PS ( Our company became involved in the training of locals so we selected several who we believed had the drive and talent to succeed . All were scratched from the list and the local government provided us with series of well connected boobs who couldn't pass a drivers test....let alone fly an airplane!)
In examining the root(s) of the problem(s) it does nothing to say things like ".........well there is corruption, mismanagement in other parts of the world", or words to that effect. Logically extending that arguement would have western society in the same mess as African society, which it clearly is not.
For far too long most ( and I mean 'most' not 'all' ) Africans are content so long as there is a roof over thier heads, a little bread in their belly and a cell phone on thier belt. You must believe there is more than this and some things are worth fighting for.
We in the western world must remember that without western 'intervention' the sum total of African technology (sub-sahran) would be exactly where it was 600yrs ago, maybe even 10, 000yrs ago.
The one's I most feel empathy for are those Africans who are driven to improve their lives, change their societies, who are competent , talented and /or well educated and who, by accident of birth, are not tied into the web of cronyism, nepotism and corruption that rules Africa. You can make all the political correct excuses for the failure of African society but in the end, you reap what sow and not much is being sown there.
PS ( Our company became involved in the training of locals so we selected several who we believed had the drive and talent to succeed . All were scratched from the list and the local government provided us with series of well connected boobs who couldn't pass a drivers test....let alone fly an airplane!)
Well alot of heated and different opinions going around. Just to add to the fact list Skylion on page 1 suggests that there are competanat airlines in africa Kenya airways which has 3 subsidaries to its name but also being a subsidary of KLM which is why KA is doing so well because CAA in kenya is bad.
Now for some opinions. Happy Pilot and others you are giving Geroge Tower alot of kuk over his posts but he does touch on the truth which is why alot of people get so upset and no i dont think it was racist at all, just experience of someone that has seen alot.
Another sad fact about Nigeria is that without the foreign companies then the vast wealth of oil cannot be extracted and with foreign companies ther would be no nigerian or expat F/O's to hire so keep that in mind. The right pilot with the right experience should be given the job whether is a local or expat, to ensure a safe flight cause the wx is nasty in that neck of the woods.
Tanzania has alot of very good local pilots and im not talking about the ones of Asian origin (cause 406pilot would think im praising him). Ive flown with these guys and i trust their skills because they did it the hard way, every hour earned flying small aircraft to build up hours etc. There are others i wouldnt want anyone to travel with. Tz is also going the right way with sponsoring and training local pilots.
Nigeria are you listening
Now for some opinions. Happy Pilot and others you are giving Geroge Tower alot of kuk over his posts but he does touch on the truth which is why alot of people get so upset and no i dont think it was racist at all, just experience of someone that has seen alot.
Another sad fact about Nigeria is that without the foreign companies then the vast wealth of oil cannot be extracted and with foreign companies ther would be no nigerian or expat F/O's to hire so keep that in mind. The right pilot with the right experience should be given the job whether is a local or expat, to ensure a safe flight cause the wx is nasty in that neck of the woods.
Tanzania has alot of very good local pilots and im not talking about the ones of Asian origin (cause 406pilot would think im praising him). Ive flown with these guys and i trust their skills because they did it the hard way, every hour earned flying small aircraft to build up hours etc. There are others i wouldnt want anyone to travel with. Tz is also going the right way with sponsoring and training local pilots.
Nigeria are you listening
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Nigeria had a very well runned and Government supported Flight Academy based in Zaria. Quality of training was excellent . Don´t know what has happened for it as my last contact with them was about 20 years ago. (time flies)
Many of todays senior Nigerian captains started from there. Some of them were sponsored by foreign companies based in Lagos.
Blues
Many of todays senior Nigerian captains started from there. Some of them were sponsored by foreign companies based in Lagos.
Blues
