KAPF - Naples Florida - Challenger crash on highway
As I see from your comments that the 604 and the 601 have the same design for the collector tank. If you know is there an associated EICAS message for low fuel in the collector tank(s)? As I know the Gulfstream 5 and 550 have such a warning. Now how would someone know which collector tank is "low"? I don't know.
ref - https://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/CL605-FUEL_SYSTEM.pdf
ref - https://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/CL...NE_GENERAL.pdf
Thanks for posting the Preliminary Report - no mention of CVR (recovery/prelim analysis) in this report?
Well the plot thickens… It seems everything so far was working normally with no fuel anomalies.
Last edited by Jet Jockey A4; 28th Feb 2024 at 05:14.
Originally Posted by prelim report
A preliminary review of the data recovered from the airplane’s flight data recorder revealed that the first of three Master Warnings was recorded at 1509:33 (L ENGINE OIL PRESSURE), the second immediately following at 1509:34 (R ENGINE OIL PRESSURE), and at 1509:40 (ENGINE). The system alerted pilots with illumination of a “Master Warning” light on the glareshield, a corresponding red message on the crew alerting system page and a triple chime voice advisory (“Engine oil”). Page 2 of 7 ERA24FA110 This information is preliminary and subject to change. Twenty seconds later, at 1510:05, about 1,000 ft msl and 122 kts, on a shallow intercept angle for the final approach course, the crew announced, “…lost both engines… emergency… making an emergency landing”
Last edited by DIBO; 27th Feb 2024 at 20:42. Reason: clarified by @josephfeatherweight
The "L ENGINE OIL PRESSURE" and "R ENGINE OIL PRESSURE" are the first messages that appear when the engines shut down - for any reason. Eg. selected off OR starved of fuel.
While the preliminary report doesn’t allow for any conclusions it certainly provides compelling information that reduces the likelihood of certain potential accident causes; e.g., fuel exhaustion, fuel starvation, fuel contamination, dual-engine bird strike.
One curious finding regarding the inadvertent engine shutdown scenario is the thrust levers being found near the idle stop position and the #1 fuel control unit being found at the idle position and the #2 forward of the idle stop.
May not be a good theory as the 604 does not appear to have fuel shut off switches that are separate from the thrust levers. I have never operated a Challenger, or even been in the cockpit, but seems hard to imagine how both thrust levers could have accidentally been pulled past the gate into Shut Off position unless both gates had failed.
ref - https://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/CL...NE_GENERAL.pdf
ref - https://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/CL...NE_GENERAL.pdf
Left (white) thrust reversers switches
Middle (red) fuel cut off switches
Right (blue) flap selector
it is very much feasible to have your arm in the way either left to right or right to left when the thrust levers are pulled back.
May not be a good theory as the 604 does not appear to have fuel shut off switches that are separate from the thrust levers. I have never operated a Challenger, or even been in the cockpit, but seems hard to imagine how both thrust levers could have accidentally been pulled past the gate into Shut Off position unless both gates had failed.
ref - https://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/CL...NE_GENERAL.pdf
ref - https://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/CL...NE_GENERAL.pdf
Did I miss it or did the report ignore they ran over a truck and nearly flattened it? I wonder about it because the truck is independently steered and could have prevented the aircraft from straightening up on the highway.
Not unexpected.
While the preliminary report doesn’t allow for any conclusions it certainly provides compelling information that reduces the likelihood of certain potential accident causes; e.g., fuel exhaustion, fuel starvation, fuel contamination, dual-engine bird strike.
One curious finding regarding the inadvertent engine shutdown scenario is the thrust levers being found near the idle stop position and the #1 fuel control unit being found at the idle position and the #2 forward of the idle stop.
While the preliminary report doesn’t allow for any conclusions it certainly provides compelling information that reduces the likelihood of certain potential accident causes; e.g., fuel exhaustion, fuel starvation, fuel contamination, dual-engine bird strike.
One curious finding regarding the inadvertent engine shutdown scenario is the thrust levers being found near the idle stop position and the #1 fuel control unit being found at the idle position and the #2 forward of the idle stop.
United and Delta both had 767 inflight shutdown of both engines because of inadvertant operation of the fuel shut off switches shortly after take off, Delta at 1,600 feet, system subsequently reengineered. A repeat here as suggested?
There was an incident years ago on a 757 or 767 where one of the pilots put his cellphone in the area in front of the fuel shutoff switches. When the auto-throttles commanded a thrust reduction, as the thrust levers moved backwards the cellphone was squeezed between the thrust levers and the fuel shutoff switches, and this caused the fuel cutoff switches to shutoff the fuel to both engines. Could a similar situation developed here.
There was an incident years ago on a 757 or 767 where one of the pilots put his cellphone in the area in front of the fuel shutoff switches. When the auto-throttles commanded a thrust reduction, as the thrust levers moved backwards the cellphone was squeezed between the thrust levers and the fuel shutoff switches, and this caused the fuel cutoff switches to shutoff the fuel to both engines. Could a similar situation developed here.
RHS dude looks out of sidewindow back at runway for typical US style visual slamdunk, asks for full flaps at same time retarding levers to idle to get speed change under way asap… also Challengers have crap autothrottles (if installed!!) so really only good as cruise controls as too slow for rapid changes for visual maneuvering
also Challengers have crap autothrottles (if installed!!)
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Very doubtful the truck driver ever saw the aircraft before it hit them.
Cabin Attendant Saved Three Lives
After the airplane came to rest, the cabin attendant stated that she identified that the cabin and emergency exits were blocked by fire and coordinated the successful egress of her passengers and herself through the baggage compartment door in the tail section of the airplane.