KAPF - Naples Florida - Challenger crash on highway
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KAPF - Naples Florida - Challenger crash on highway
Reports of a Challenger radioing in while on approach saying both engines quit and could not make it. Crash landed on highway, hitting vehicles and/or wall and erupting in to a large fireball.
Video from pilot of plane that was next to land. Video Post
Video from car driving by Safety Network info page Link
Video from pilot of plane that was next to land. Video Post
Video from car driving by Safety Network info page Link
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Unverified reports say, 5 on board, three survivors.
https://www.flightaware.com/live/fli...730Z/KOSU/KAPF
https://winknews.com/2024/02/09/plan...ollier-county/
https://www.flightaware.com/live/fli...730Z/KOSU/KAPF
https://winknews.com/2024/02/09/plan...ollier-county/
Rough transcript from LiveATC. Non-accident aircraft comms not included.
HJ823: Hop-a-jet 823 is with you on a right downwind for a 5-mile final ah runway 23
KAPF: Hop-a-jet 823, roger, make a right turn back toward the airport, [?] departure ahead Challenger jet, runway 23 cleared to land, wind 220 at 12, gust 16
HJ823: Alright, Challenger jet departing, we’re turning back towards the airport and cleared to land runway 23, Hop-a-jet 823
HJ823: OK, ah, Challenger, ah Hop-a-jet 823, lost both engines, emergency, making an emergency landing
KAPF: [?] got that emergency, cleared to land runway 23, is that Hop-a-jet 823?
HJ823: We’re cleared to land but we’re not going to make the runway, we’ve lost both engines.
HJ823: Hop-a-jet 823 is with you on a right downwind for a 5-mile final ah runway 23
KAPF: Hop-a-jet 823, roger, make a right turn back toward the airport, [?] departure ahead Challenger jet, runway 23 cleared to land, wind 220 at 12, gust 16
HJ823: Alright, Challenger jet departing, we’re turning back towards the airport and cleared to land runway 23, Hop-a-jet 823
HJ823: OK, ah, Challenger, ah Hop-a-jet 823, lost both engines, emergency, making an emergency landing
KAPF: [?] got that emergency, cleared to land runway 23, is that Hop-a-jet 823?
HJ823: We’re cleared to land but we’re not going to make the runway, we’ve lost both engines.
Last edited by BFSGrad; 9th Feb 2024 at 23:28.
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A similar issue (corroded 5'th stage check valve sticking open due to extended duration storage) was causing multiple in-flight engine shutdowns at top of descent on the 737NG after bunches of them were poorly stored at the beginning of COVID. It is complete pure luck that there were no dual engine flameouts. https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...pany-airplanes
Nah… quick quick turn in Columbus, respectfully I would seriously look at their fuel numbers for an out and back.
(12 years on 604/605 myself)
edit to add, I dont want to read too much into the flames.. remember there is always an amount of unusable fuel that remains so hard to say at this point
(12 years on 604/605 myself)
edit to add, I dont want to read too much into the flames.. remember there is always an amount of unusable fuel that remains so hard to say at this point
Last edited by 605carsten; 10th Feb 2024 at 07:15.
Looking at the airplane's pneumatic diagram, one way the engines are tied together is through the 10'th stage bleed manifold, but there is a check valve that should isolate them. A bad 10th stage bleed check valve could cause a compressor stall and engine flameout at low power settings when you start the APU, which could account for an engine failure in this phase of flight. Having 2 check valves on 2 different engines fail on the same flight? That seems extraordinary unlikely. It was a quick turnaround at OSU so they would not have had time to do any maintenance, so a common mode maintenance failure seems unlikely.
A similar issue (corroded 5'th stage check valve sticking open due to extended duration storage) was causing multiple in-flight engine shutdowns at top of descent on the 737NG after bunches of them were poorly stored at the beginning of COVID. It is complete pure luck that there were no dual engine flameouts. https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...pany-airplanes
A similar issue (corroded 5'th stage check valve sticking open due to extended duration storage) was causing multiple in-flight engine shutdowns at top of descent on the 737NG after bunches of them were poorly stored at the beginning of COVID. It is complete pure luck that there were no dual engine flameouts. https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...pany-airplanes
Last edited by 605carsten; 10th Feb 2024 at 07:13.
no, you dont transition the bleeds(its manually done in the 604/5) until APU is up and running and also switching 10ths off is approved for ops if you have no APU (limitation of pulling two bleed sources at same time off engine) if you want to use Anti-ice for takeoff or landing
No toggle switches like the Global.. they are simply triggers on the back of the thrust levers that need to be pulled to go to cutoff.. hmm so you are thinking like that Falcon20 crew many years ago with worn latches and flamed both out when going back to idle?
Firstly, it's not an airliner with hundreds of passengers. Secondly there's no emergency slide involved. Thirdly on a private jet an item of hand luggage may well have been within easy reach. Natural human reaction to try and save your worldly goods, especially if they are right next to you. I saw nothing in that clip that would have impeded their escape. I'll now get flamed but I honestly think this is a slightly different scenario to a full airliner and it's human instinct. No cabin crew screaming at you to leave everything and get the heck out.
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