Alaska Airlines 737-900 MAX loses a door in-flight out of PDX
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Door plug swap BIS
Re-examining some pictures I suddenly realised that the door plug wasn't intended to be fitted on N704AL (LN 8789), but on N705AL (LN8799), the latter delivered last December. Coincidence, normal practice? Original door plug intended for N704AL with issues, e.g. not a good fit?
But no, this scenario would have meant that the door plug on N704AL wasn't just opened, but removed, which would/should have triggered a QC in Boeing's system logic. That means the swap could only have taken place at Spirit Wichita. And taking into account that this second door plug installed had these issues (the loose rivets), failing Boeing's QC, what was wrong with the door plug originally intended for N704AL?
Last edited by D Bru; 24th Jan 2024 at 15:50. Reason: typo; precision
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Here's what Gates wrote:
The published whistleblower account does not explicitly state who removed and reinstalled the door plug in Renton.
The information that it was Boeing mechanics who removed the plug is from a different source with knowledge of the repair, the person who cannot be identified because of the sensitivity of the ongoing investigation.
The information that it was Boeing mechanics who removed the plug is from a different source with knowledge of the repair, the person who cannot be identified because of the sensitivity of the ongoing investigation.
Last edited by OldnGrounded; 24th Jan 2024 at 14:32. Reason: Fix quote tags.
The Washington Post has an article today about the remarks of the Alaska CEO.
It is a typically long but very flabby article , but a couple of hilites for me:
"I am more than frustrated and disappointed. I am angry, said CEO Ben Minicucci, referencing the accident in which part of a Max 9 jet operated by his airline came loose in midflight early this month. This happened to Alaska Airlines. It happened to our guests and happened to our people.
Inspections at United Airlines since the accident have turned up similar issues."
And:
"Minicucci told NBC that preliminary inspections have taken about 10 hours per door. Both carriers are still awaiting clearance from the FAA to complete formal inspections. Once the FAA issues its directive, Minicucci said, it will take several days to complete all the inspections. The FAA, for its part, has said there is no timeline for when the Max 9 jets will be cleared to resume flying. "
I think it has been reported before that the airline's inspections had turned up loose bolts, and this confirms it, and implies that the issue is widespread.
But also, it appears that all the Inspections have been "preliminary", and that the airlines expect the FAA to eventually issue a set of directives about what inspections, and/or modifications, are required before the Max 9 can return to service. So there is no clear path yet to solve the issue.
It looks like the Max 9's with plug doors may be grounded for a long time.
IB
It is a typically long but very flabby article , but a couple of hilites for me:
"I am more than frustrated and disappointed. I am angry, said CEO Ben Minicucci, referencing the accident in which part of a Max 9 jet operated by his airline came loose in midflight early this month. This happened to Alaska Airlines. It happened to our guests and happened to our people.
Inspections at United Airlines since the accident have turned up similar issues."
And:
"Minicucci told NBC that preliminary inspections have taken about 10 hours per door. Both carriers are still awaiting clearance from the FAA to complete formal inspections. Once the FAA issues its directive, Minicucci said, it will take several days to complete all the inspections. The FAA, for its part, has said there is no timeline for when the Max 9 jets will be cleared to resume flying. "
I think it has been reported before that the airline's inspections had turned up loose bolts, and this confirms it, and implies that the issue is widespread.
But also, it appears that all the Inspections have been "preliminary", and that the airlines expect the FAA to eventually issue a set of directives about what inspections, and/or modifications, are required before the Max 9 can return to service. So there is no clear path yet to solve the issue.
It looks like the Max 9's with plug doors may be grounded for a long time.
IB
Loose rivets: if they were of the solid annealed type then they are now age work hardened, but I doubt these were used in the door plug skin and should not be re worked; if they were standard, then likely a couple of rivet gun bursts with a block would solve the loose issue, followed then by a paint touch up.
Now if they are referring to hi lock type, then removal replacement would be necessary and I doubt a paint dub would pass muster.
Now if they are referring to hi lock type, then removal replacement would be necessary and I doubt a paint dub would pass muster.
From Flight Global:
Boeing is to pause production and delivery of its 737 Max aircraft on 25 January, as it calls a “quality stand down” amid ongoing quality-control issues.
The airframer states that the one-day stand down will take place at its Renton, Washington facility, where its production, delivery and support staff will pause operations “so employees can take part in working sessions focused on quality”.
Boeing Commercial Airplanes chief Stan Deal says the sessions will allow workers involved in the 737 production to “pause, evaluate what we’re doing, how we’re doing it and make recommendations for improvement”.
According to internal employee communications, the airframer states: “During the stand downs, teammates will participate in hands-on learning, reflection and collaboration to identify where quality and compliance can be improved and create actionable plans that will be tracked to closure.” Boeing is expected to roll out these sessions across its other facilities covering its other aircraft programmes.
Boeing is to pause production and delivery of its 737 Max aircraft on 25 January, as it calls a “quality stand down” amid ongoing quality-control issues.
The airframer states that the one-day stand down will take place at its Renton, Washington facility, where its production, delivery and support staff will pause operations “so employees can take part in working sessions focused on quality”.
Boeing Commercial Airplanes chief Stan Deal says the sessions will allow workers involved in the 737 production to “pause, evaluate what we’re doing, how we’re doing it and make recommendations for improvement”.
According to internal employee communications, the airframer states: “During the stand downs, teammates will participate in hands-on learning, reflection and collaboration to identify where quality and compliance can be improved and create actionable plans that will be tracked to closure.” Boeing is expected to roll out these sessions across its other facilities covering its other aircraft programmes.
Last edited by SRMman; 24th Jan 2024 at 15:35. Reason: typo
Poke a finger down my throat for the phrase “quality stand down”.
This comes across as "stop being distracted by continued schedule and performance based beatings and do better work with the garbage you're given while we hit you harder."
Note the "workers" are the ones to pause, to evaluate, to make recommendations. The root of the problem appears to be that Boeing management is allowing Spirit to ship so much garbage the Renton workers are drowning.
This comes across as "stop being distracted by continued schedule and performance based beatings and do better work with the garbage you're given while we hit you harder."
Note the "workers" are the ones to pause, to evaluate, to make recommendations. The root of the problem appears to be that Boeing management is allowing Spirit to ship so much garbage the Renton workers are drowning.
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The airframer states that the one-day stand down will take place at its Renton, Washington facility, where its production, delivery and support staff will pause operations “so employees can take part in working sessions focused on quality”.
According to internal employee communications, the airframer states: “During the stand downs, teammates will participate in hands-on learning, reflection and collaboration to identify where quality and compliance can be improved and create actionable plans that will be tracked to closure.” Boeing is expected to roll out these sessions across its other facilities covering its other aircraft programmes.
According to internal employee communications, the airframer states: “During the stand downs, teammates will participate in hands-on learning, reflection and collaboration to identify where quality and compliance can be improved and create actionable plans that will be tracked to closure.” Boeing is expected to roll out these sessions across its other facilities covering its other aircraft programmes.
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I think Boeing executives should close the factories for a week, give the workers a paid holiday and have a serious look at themselves and corporate culture. It needs to a top-down whooping.
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The New York Times has a couple of excellent graphics showing the door closing and the function of the lift assist springs.
https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/f...422hq-640w.mp4
https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/f...422hq-640w.mp4
These may be paywalled, but you can normally access a few stories without a subscription.
There's a third on the action of the guide and rollers but it's not very good.
All in this story https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...door-plug.html
https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/f...422hq-640w.mp4
https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/f...422hq-640w.mp4
These may be paywalled, but you can normally access a few stories without a subscription.
There's a third on the action of the guide and rollers but it's not very good.
All in this story https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...door-plug.html
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Chances of plug door blowing out like that for a new plane
Should be one of those things that never happen. Not even after a million planes are built because that should be the standard of safety. They are not making cars that can afford a recall. I know there were design flaws decades ago like cargo doors opening in midflight, but those were design flaws long ironed out. A plug door isn't a new design nor too complex. This is like 60 year design?? What is scary here is how they could have completely missed installing the 4 critical bolts at Spirit and then QC team couldn't catch it at Boeing!!!
If they can miss something so easy but critical due to "quality escape", I wonder what other quality escape are baked in already and we won't find out until quarter or half of "engineered lifespan" of the aircraft later.
What if there was quality escape in the fuselage or wings?
Cracks and impurities in the composite or cured at wrong temperature? Cutting corners and shoddy inspections to save a buck? Instead of 30,000 cycle, they give out at 15K?
And why would the bean counters care? Management would have long retired 10-15 years later, with golden parachute, and kicked the can of junk and responsibility down the road. Heck, they don't even need 15 years. MCAS shown you can get a golden parachute in 2 years after criminal engineering was discovered.
It's tragic because I know there are alot of smart engineers and visionists at Boeing. I'm sure they have the answer how to turn Boeing around but I'm sure shareholders would just shuffle the MBA bean counters around, too big to failz same old song same old song.
If they can miss something so easy but critical due to "quality escape", I wonder what other quality escape are baked in already and we won't find out until quarter or half of "engineered lifespan" of the aircraft later.
What if there was quality escape in the fuselage or wings?
Cracks and impurities in the composite or cured at wrong temperature? Cutting corners and shoddy inspections to save a buck? Instead of 30,000 cycle, they give out at 15K?
And why would the bean counters care? Management would have long retired 10-15 years later, with golden parachute, and kicked the can of junk and responsibility down the road. Heck, they don't even need 15 years. MCAS shown you can get a golden parachute in 2 years after criminal engineering was discovered.
It's tragic because I know there are alot of smart engineers and visionists at Boeing. I'm sure they have the answer how to turn Boeing around but I'm sure shareholders would just shuffle the MBA bean counters around, too big to failz same old song same old song.
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Airbus has an anonymous tip line and specific training that nobody can be pushished for speaking up.
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Imagine finding that in your backyard.
I wonder, is there a formal process to document and deal with loose and excess parts found on an aircraft factory floor? After all, those bolts must have been found somewhere? They can’t just have disappeared in thin air, I’d imagine. (Barring some genuine Jedi tricks.)
I wonder, is there a formal process to document and deal with loose and excess parts found on an aircraft factory floor? After all, those bolts must have been found somewhere? They can’t just have disappeared in thin air, I’d imagine. (Barring some genuine Jedi tricks.)
Interior Trim
I know they have found the door/plug, but have they found the interior trim panel yet..?
It might have floated much further away from the original site, or be hidden in the weeds.
It might have floated much further away from the original site, or be hidden in the weeds.
Loose rivets: if they were of the solid annealed type then they are now age work hardened, but I doubt these were used in the door plug skin and should not be re worked; if they were standard, then likely a couple of rivet gun bursts with a block would solve the loose issue, followed then by a paint touch up.
Now if they are referring to hi lock type, then removal replacement would be necessary and I doubt a paint dub would pass muster.
Now if they are referring to hi lock type, then removal replacement would be necessary and I doubt a paint dub would pass muster.
The main rivet defects that are easily seen are that the stem of the rivet cracked or the rivet is bucked off center.
Of the two, trying to hide cracks by filling them with paint is the better fit for the report.
Of the two, trying to hide cracks by filling them with paint is the better fit for the report.