Alaska Airlines 737-900 MAX loses a door in-flight out of PDX
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On SeatGuru, I left a review for seat 26A on flight AS1282. I said it was very drafty, but the window was enormous.
It's an excellent website for choosing your seat and it warns of particular seats that have limited or no recline and tables built into armrests that make the seat narrower.
Apparently, seat 10A on the 737-800 and 11A on the 737-900 do not have a window inAlaska Airline's configuration. The opposite seat does have a window. I wonder why.
It's an excellent website for choosing your seat and it warns of particular seats that have limited or no recline and tables built into armrests that make the seat narrower.
Apparently, seat 10A on the 737-800 and 11A on the 737-900 do not have a window inAlaska Airline's configuration. The opposite seat does have a window. I wonder why.
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Before we get too carried away here with theoretical theories ...
- The flight's scheduled type was a smaller MAX-8, which was used on all preceding days. However, as this particular MAX-9 had been restricted from ETOPS flying, there was a switcharound, and it was used.
- The additional seat rows it provided were at the back, where the plug is. These rear seats were all completely unreserved when the aircraft switch was made.
- Most passengers in the USA select their seats at booking, which would be before the additional seats were known.
- The most favoured seats are forward, to be first out of the aircraft.
- In the USA, there is a notable preference for aisle seats. This may seem strange to Europeans, where there is more of a preference for window seats. Note the one passenger in the incident row was in the aisle seat.
- There were several seats which were vacant, not just these two. Likely they were all around this area.
- The flight's scheduled type was a smaller MAX-8, which was used on all preceding days. However, as this particular MAX-9 had been restricted from ETOPS flying, there was a switcharound, and it was used.
- The additional seat rows it provided were at the back, where the plug is. These rear seats were all completely unreserved when the aircraft switch was made.
- Most passengers in the USA select their seats at booking, which would be before the additional seats were known.
- The most favoured seats are forward, to be first out of the aircraft.
- In the USA, there is a notable preference for aisle seats. This may seem strange to Europeans, where there is more of a preference for window seats. Note the one passenger in the incident row was in the aisle seat.
- There were several seats which were vacant, not just these two. Likely they were all around this area.
I covered this topic days ago.
On SeatGuru, I left a review for seat 26A on flight AS1282. I said it was very drafty, but the window was enormous.
It's an excellent website for choosing your seat and it warns of particular seats that have limited or no recline and tables built into armrests that make the seat narrower.
Apparently, seat 10A on the 737-800 and 11A on the 737-900 do not have a window inAlaska Airline's configuration. The opposite seat does have a window. I wonder why.
It's an excellent website for choosing your seat and it warns of particular seats that have limited or no recline and tables built into armrests that make the seat narrower.
Apparently, seat 10A on the 737-800 and 11A on the 737-900 do not have a window inAlaska Airline's configuration. The opposite seat does have a window. I wonder why.
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It's been pointed out that this is not an emergency exit row, but it does have a misaligned window spacing due to the extra space taken up by the hidden door frame. Is it possible that Alaska typically assigns this row last to mitigate complaints about "I paid extra for this window seat and all I see is sidewall?"
Also regarding empty emergency row seats - in the USA most all airlines, including Alaska, charge a significant premium to pre-select an exit row seat, and many people find that the $150 extra charge is not worth the result of getting slightly more legroom in exchange for slightly reduced hip and shoulder room, and a lumpy seat that won't recline. So I have frequently been on trips with partially or totally empty exit rows.
Also regarding empty emergency row seats - in the USA most all airlines, including Alaska, charge a significant premium to pre-select an exit row seat, and many people find that the $150 extra charge is not worth the result of getting slightly more legroom in exchange for slightly reduced hip and shoulder room, and a lumpy seat that won't recline. So I have frequently been on trips with partially or totally empty exit rows.
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- 7 empty seats total
- 2 unknown
- 2 were 26A and 26B
- at least 3 were forward of row 25 because 25ABC occupants were relocated forward:
- "The flight attendant helped them find new seats. The boy was placed in a middle seat about four rows ahead of row 25 and on the other side of the plane from the hole. Faye and her seatmate were seated together eight to 10 rows ahead of him."
- https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ht-to-her-son/
Of course, NTSB and Alaska know all the details, but we are temporarily forced to reconstruct these things from crumbs and tea leaves.
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It's been pointed out that this is not an emergency exit row, but it does have a misaligned window spacing due to the extra space taken up by the hidden door frame. Is it possible that Alaska typically assigns this row last to mitigate complaints about "I paid extra for this window seat and all I see is sidewall?"
Also regarding empty emergency row seats - in the USA most all airlines, including Alaska, charge a significant premium to pre-select an exit row seat, and many people find that the $150 extra charge is not worth the result of getting slightly more legroom in exchange for slightly reduced hip and shoulder room, and a lumpy seat that won't recline. So I have frequently been on trips with partially or totally empty exit rows.
Also regarding empty emergency row seats - in the USA most all airlines, including Alaska, charge a significant premium to pre-select an exit row seat, and many people find that the $150 extra charge is not worth the result of getting slightly more legroom in exchange for slightly reduced hip and shoulder room, and a lumpy seat that won't recline. So I have frequently been on trips with partially or totally empty exit rows.
It's been pointed out that this is not an emergency exit row, but it does have a misaligned window spacing due to the extra space taken up by the hidden door frame. Is it possible that Alaska typically assigns this row last to mitigate complaints about "I paid extra for this window seat and all I see is sidewall?"
I am sure the NTSB knows whether those seats were off limits on the seat map. And if they were, that opens up some issues for the carrier. What issues did this plane have while it was continued to be used for revenue flights? The fact that the airframe was taken off the ETOPS roster because of the repeated pressure warning lights means that there was a certain degree of mistrust at play here. As Joe Kernan said on CNBC, how can an airliner deemed to be not safe to fly to Hawaii be good to fly to Ontario?
Has the carrier or the NTSB been directly asked as to whether those seats were blocked? Would you block A and B but not C? We sure have spent an inordinate amount of discussion on these seats being unoccupied including mathematical analysis far beyond my ability to comprehend.
Has the carrier or the NTSB been directly asked as to whether those seats were blocked? Would you block A and B but not C? We sure have spent an inordinate amount of discussion on these seats being unoccupied including mathematical analysis far beyond my ability to comprehend.
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The plane was taken off ETOPs to be within three hours of an airport. This was AA being ultra cautious. It was due to there being multiple write ups for maintenance, not specifically because of the pressurisation controller faults.
I am sure the NTSB knows whether those seats were off limits on the seat map. And if they were, that opens up some issues for the carrier. What issues did this plane have while it was continued to be used for revenue flights? The fact that the airframe was taken off the ETOPS roster because of the repeated pressure warning lights means that there was a certain degree of mistrust at play here. As Joe Kernan said on CNBC, how can an airliner deemed to be not safe to fly to Hawaii be good to fly to Ontario?
Has the carrier or the NTSB been directly asked as to whether those seats were blocked? Would you block A and B but not C? We sure have spent an inordinate amount of discussion on these seats being unoccupied including mathematical analysis far beyond my ability to comprehend.
Has the carrier or the NTSB been directly asked as to whether those seats were blocked? Would you block A and B but not C? We sure have spent an inordinate amount of discussion on these seats being unoccupied including mathematical analysis far beyond my ability to comprehend.
But where's the fun in that ... ?
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See ImbracableCrunk's post of the NTSB B roll at #388. Given the statements by the NTSB cited above, they clearly looked behind the interior panels.
If Alaska suspected the door plug was unsafe, do you really think they would block two seats on the left, but not on the right? If they had had noise complaints I'm pretty sure Alaska would not have left the plug uninspected. The risks to passengers and the company's reputation are just too great.
Seriously folks get a grip. No domestic carrier, especially Alaska, is going to make a plane with a "leaky door plug" "safe" by removing two (not three!!!) passengers from that row.
"Oh that row has this annoying draft and squealing sound, we blocked it off. Well, 2/3 blocked it off."
Nor is anyone going to fly a plane that has any real indication of pressurization problems, as in, a measured loss of pressure or failure to maintain expected cabin altitude climb/decent profile. That planes not going anywhere except to maintenance.
People play roulette and win on 23. So did the passengers who missed their connection.
Dismiss this scenario from your mind.
And, again, in what universe other than "Soviet Russia" would an airline mitigate a "leaky door plug" by blocking off the two seats nearest the window? Think about what you're saying. What logic brings an airline to do that?
(PS to be clear I'm agreeing 👍 with your sentiment)
ETOPS
ETOPS, In early 1980's I was the Techy on a committee for an Asian Airline which had purchased B767-ER's and had thought that was all they needed to go ETOPS. From my side I had to demonstrate the control of defects carried by the aircraft was closely monitored such, that for example a normally MEL item, lets say the APU, which might be taking several attempts to start (cold soak condition) on an aircraft, would not depart on an ETOPS flight until the problem was solved and it had operated on a standard flight (or several flights) without occurrence of the problem.
Along with defects, the oil consumption of main engines and the APU was monitored closely; in those days, communication with Base was mostly by SITA telexes and Station Engineers would have to rush back to the office to one finger type the debrief message.
No doubt Alaska had pulled this aircraft off 180 minute ETOPS for some repeat defect or MEL reasons which did not impact a standard flight.
Along with defects, the oil consumption of main engines and the APU was monitored closely; in those days, communication with Base was mostly by SITA telexes and Station Engineers would have to rush back to the office to one finger type the debrief message.
No doubt Alaska had pulled this aircraft off 180 minute ETOPS for some repeat defect or MEL reasons which did not impact a standard flight.
Homendy Briefing 18th Jan
"He (Calhoun) called me and said they've made errors in the past, and they want to rectify that," she said. "Great, but my focus is less on the executive team and more on what happened here with this aircraft"
Homendy said the NTSB will move next week onto destructive testing of the door plug, or testing to the exact point of failure. So far the investigation has not been able to establish whether the door plug was outfitted with the four bolts that prevent it from vertical movement, but Homendy said it is too early to say whether the root cause was missing or wrongly installed bolts.
"We're also looking at the seal. We're looking at, was there any sort of structural flexing of the aircraft?" she said. "It may not be bolts.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...st-2024-01-18/
Homendy said the NTSB will move next week onto destructive testing of the door plug, or testing to the exact point of failure. So far the investigation has not been able to establish whether the door plug was outfitted with the four bolts that prevent it from vertical movement, but Homendy said it is too early to say whether the root cause was missing or wrongly installed bolts.
"We're also looking at the seal. We're looking at, was there any sort of structural flexing of the aircraft?" she said. "It may not be bolts.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...st-2024-01-18/