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JAL incident at Haneda Airport

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JAL incident at Haneda Airport

Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:29
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Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster. I am not here to speculate, just point out one fact I have heard so far, that given the intensity of the situation could prove to be incorrect later on. I have pulled the LiveATC archive of the incident and you can distinctly here around 17 minutes and 36 seconds or so, a controller or someone report "We have a fire on 34 Left". Given departures were operating on 34L at the time and 34R was JAL516's assigned runway for landing from reading above, it might shed a little bit of light if the information proves correct during the investigation.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:30
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Considering everyone on board the A350 got off safely this looks like an incredibly efficient evacuation. Probably not the right moment to blame people for carrying bags when there is no way of knowing if anyone did.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:32
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Originally Posted by Ivor_Bigunn
Here are 3 screengrabs from the video in post #65.

They are each 2-3 minutes apart, in sequence:





In frame #1 you can see the evacuation ongoing. A steward stands in the doorway with a flashlite, until 1-2 minutes after the last passenger evacuates down the rear slide - so great job there.

In frame #2 you see that the evacuation is apparently complete, and that fire trucks are on the scene but sending no foam. But 1 lone fireman is approaching the LH engine.

You see him very clearly in Frame #3, spraying the LH engine by hand. Also, overall the fire is markedly reduced. Evidently it erupted later, to engulf the entire plane, but minutes after the evacuation was over.

I guess that the firemen are following SOP's, not to spray foam on an empty aircraft? Although the fire is quite small by then.

But what is the "lone fireman" doing? Has he disobeyed orders? What he is doing looks dangerous, and rather pointless, so I think something has not gone to plan.

IB
Agreed - as per my original posts. Lots of people saying you don't fight fires on an empty aircraft, there was a significant amount of firefighting going on over an hour after the incident when a large number of extra resources arrived. Tentatively, these appear to be county resources and they are using aerial platforms to fight the fire, something the airport doesn't have maybe?. You don't do what that lone firefighter is doing and go right up to an engine on fire. You can fight the fire remotely, from the tenders, with the right kit.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:32
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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368 people are very lucky to be alive. That could have been so much worse.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:33
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by milhouse999
If you scroll to the start of this video:

This is incredibly poor, you can't sugar coat it any other way sadly.
​​​​​​Your assessment is premature.
Having worked at night with airport fire crews I'll wait for more info because there were multiple aircraft involved. There are currently 80 persons beavering away at the wreckage of the coast guard plane. The dispatcher would be aware at some point the JAL aircraft was evacuated and made the priority the smaller craft. In this case, a hands on search and rescue of the wreckage to find and extract the victims.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:34
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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He clearly read back 34Right.
Very strong reminiscence of the 1991 LAX crash though without that many casualties, thankfully.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:35
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Having lived in Japan, my expectation is that the vast majority of passengers would have done exactly as instructed and not attempted to take cabin bags with them. It will be interesting to read the accident report to learn just how quickly they did manage to evacuate and how close they came to disaster.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:35
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Last 5 from Dash now confirmed deceased. Captain badly injured.

Reports of 17+ injuries among the passengers. Severity unknown. Numbers may increase.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:35
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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My thoughts:

The firefighter on Engine 1 does appear to be in a spot of danger (look no further than EK521).
I apologise if this has been answered or asked before, but did any passengers take their carry-ons with them? If not, did perhaps their society's culture have a role in the success of this evacuation?
Congratulations to the crew for such a successful evacuation of a pretty dense A350 in a rapidly deteriorating situation.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:38
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Haneda 34R is a CatIII equipped, 60m wide runway with the associated runway lighting. A DH8-300s wing span is 26m - about half of the runway width; the white strobes are mounted on the tail and wing tips on this type.

It was night, but weather was nowhere close to low vis, judging from what Avherald states:

RJTT 020900Z 33008KT 9999 FEW020 07/04 Q1016 NOSIG=
RJTT 020830Z VRB03KT 9999 FEW020 SCT090 08/04 Q1016 BECMG TL0900 30006KT=

Is there any word on what runway lights were switched on at the time of the accident? If the runway was fully lit, it would probably not have been easy for the approaching crew to spot the Dash.

The tower controller and the 350 flight crew will likely have interesting answers to the questions put before them.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:40
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WIN for eastern respect and culture. Try getting 379 westerners off a plane without grabbing their carry-on's and filming/posting everything as they went. "F*** o**! You can't tell me what to do!".
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:40
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Originally Posted by Diff Tail Shim
368 people are very lucky to be alive. That could have been so much worse.
The culture in Japan to be respectful and orderly may well have contributed to the successful evacuation. In particular the videos appear to show passengers on the apron without luggage. Bravo.
Another point worth noting is the onboard video shows a good % of passengers wearing face masks perhaps contributing to survivability within the cabin where smoke is visible.

Last edited by mickjoebill; 2nd Jan 2024 at 11:10.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:43
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Got this from Facebook
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:48
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Prime Minister Kishida speaking, praising the crew and passengers…
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:49
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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This may have no bearing on the accident, but I noticed on FR24 that the runway on which this happened (34R) was the departure runway at the time, traffic was landing on 34L. As far as I can see there had been no recent landings on 34R. I presume JAL516 had been cleared to land on 34R, no one seems to have the ATC recordings so we can't be sure what happened. But clearly one of these aircraft was in the wrong place and the reason for this is not clear.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:50
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at the pitch of that rear slide, I'd be surprised if there weren't injuries. It's not that easy stopping at the bottom even from a 737 at a normal height (personal experience).
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:53
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chalkhill-blue
This may have no bearing on the accident, but I noticed on FR24 that the runway on which this happened (34R) was the departure runway at the time, traffic was landing on 34L. As far as I can see there had been no recent landings on 34R. I presume JAL516 had been cleared to land on 34R, no one seems to have the ATC recordings so we can't be sure what happened. But clearly one of these aircraft was in the wrong place and the reason for this is not clear.
ATC live recordings are available and JAL516 was cleared to land 34R. It was the first of a number of aircraft given 34R for landing.

https://archive.liveatc.net/rjtt/RJT...2024-0830Z.mp3

Landing clearance readback at 15mins.
Report of fire at 17mins 20secs
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:55
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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(They asked the Prime Minister if the smaller aircraft was carrying relief for Noto, but he avoided answering.)
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 11:02
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Saddened to see this, in my former life I used to spend time at Haneda, working in an overhaul shop at the airport. I used to pass the coastguard hangar on the train, and always saw the coastguard guys doing their morning excercises. RIP.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 11:03
  #120 (permalink)  
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If we have the ATC recordings, what were the taxi, runway, hold instructions for the Dash-8?
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