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JAL incident at Haneda Airport

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JAL incident at Haneda Airport

Old 2nd Jan 2024, 11:58
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Transport Ministry and Coastguard spokespeople.
Joint press conference announcement update.
Apparently the details are not yet known, but the Dash Captain had simply reported that a) his aircraft had exploded, that b) he had escaped, and c) he knew nothing about the other crew members.
They also said that it is not yet clear if the JAL flight hit the Dash side-on or from the rear.
(The rest was what we already know so far.)
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:01
  #142 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by chalkhill-blue
Checking on FR24 I cannot see the Dash 8 at all.
FR will not show many Government/Military Aircraft.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:03
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dct_Mopas
ATC live recordings are available and JAL516 was cleared to land 34R. It was the first of a number of aircraft given 34R for landing.
I know this is standard at many airports around the world to cope with the shifting balance from more outgoing to more incoming, but any time there is a change from one system to another - especially if itís a regular changeover - then itís possible for people to slip into regular habits. Itís one reason so many checks and double checks are in place in so many industries.

As it appears both pilots survived then the investigation will be interesting and I feel that lessons will definitely be learned from this most unfortunate accident.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:05
  #144 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Rie
FR will not show many Government/Military Aircraft.
Can you get replays from adsb exchange? I've never used it but I believe it shows a lot more of the "blocked* aircraft than FR24.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:13
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I'm curious to understand why tcas in sby mode is not used more often and would/could it have made a difference to the outcome that's just occurred.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:15
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill
The culture in Japan to be respectful and orderly may well have contributed to the successful evacuation. In particular the videos appear to show passengers on the apron without luggage. Bravo.
Another point worth noting is the onboard video shows a good % of passengers wearing face masks perhaps contributing to survivability within the cabin where smoke is visible.
You are correct. I worked on the ground at LHR for a number of years and the Japanese groups were always the easiest. They'd typically have one group leader - you'd tell him/her what you wanted the group to do and the rest would follow their directions meticulously. My guess is that if the crew here said "leave everything behind" then they left everything behind. I believe that a lot of people survived here because of the Japanese culture.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:15
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:17
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Hustler
I know this is standard at many airports around the world to cope with the shifting balance from more outgoing to more incoming, but any time there is a change from one system to another - especially if it’s a regular changeover - then it’s possible for people to slip into regular habits. It’s one reason so many checks and double checks are in place in so many industries.

As it appears both pilots survived then the investigation will be interesting and I feel that lessons will definitely be learned from this most unfortunate accident.
From all I've read here so far, it would seem the JAL flight was where it was supposed to be doing what it was supposed to do. Ergo, the Dash-8 probably was not. The big question then is why was he not where he was supposed to be?
.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:26
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Originally Posted by 2b2
Can you get replays from adsb exchange? I've never used it but I believe it shows a lot more of the "blocked* aircraft than FR24.
yes one can and it does, but the Dash did not appear when i checked...

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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:26
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Originally Posted by 2b2
Can you get replays from adsb exchange? I've never used it but I believe it shows a lot more of the "blocked* aircraft than FR24.
Doesn't show up on mine..



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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:33
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Not that it is entirely relevant to the incident, but how long might the operational area be blocked [even after the wreckage is removed] so that any resurfacing [I guess may be needed?] could be undertaken.

I am not familiar with that airport, and am certainly not flight crew, but will the position of the accident create longer-term disruption for the facility [again, once the wreckage is moved away - and any in-place investigation has taken place].
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:34
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They went to cover Japan from the plane even before ppl were evacuating? is that a standard practice in these scenarios, a priority to first cover the name of the airline or is that foam or some other substance covering japan on the plane's right side?
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:35
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Originally Posted by milhouse999
Agreed - as per my original posts. Lots of people saying you don't fight fires on an empty aircraft, there was a significant amount of firefighting going on over an hour after the incident when a large number of extra resources arrived. Tentatively, these appear to be county resources and they are using aerial platforms to fight the fire, something the airport doesn't have maybe?. You don't do what that lone firefighter is doing and go right up to an engine on fire. You can fight the fire remotely, from the tenders, with the right kit.
I wonder, even with very good training, if "human nature" sometimes takes over, meaning you think you are helping out whilst putting yourself unknowingly (sic) at risk.

The firefighter, whatever their gender [but I presume a male being Japan] has "big balls", whether judged to be personally foolish or not. I don't tread in their shoes or dare to tell them how to their job. I struggle to comprehend, but admire, those who rush /to/ a fire or similar disaster when the human response would be to be going the other way.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:37
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Screengrab fom video referenced in Post #155:



A lot of passengers coming down the RH Front Slide. Good!!

But the RH engine is obviously still running strongly. See sparks at rear, and internal fire/blades rubbing on casing.

I recall several recent incidents where the Engine Kill Switches did not work. This engine does not look to be majorly damaged.

And the fire overall is very serious but not massive. The plane was only engulfed after the passenger evacuation.

IB
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:41
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Regardless of the reports I would say this is a textbook evacuation result. Quite extraordinary.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:43
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Just listened to Japan's transport minister. He said the aircraft landed on runway C. I don't know HND. Does runway C equate to 34R?
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:43
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Five confirmed fatalities.
Japan Airlines plane fire: Five dead on coastguard plane after crash with jet on Haneda Airport runway - BBC News
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:45
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Originally Posted by Ivor_Bigunn
Screengrab fom video referenced in Post #155:
This engine does not look to be majorly damaged.
Are we looking at the same picture?
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:45
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Regardless of cause and disregarding speculation about the cause of the incident, the cabin crew and flight deck have to be commended for swiftly and safely evacuating the passengers before the aircraft was totally consumed by fire and from some of the video available not all the chutes were deployed. Hats off to them.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 12:49
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A350 approaching on the opposite side to the Dash's captain.

I'm impressed at how, with this damage, the A350 crew controlled the rollout and stopped on the runway, and equally impressed at how tough the A350 structure appears to be.

Apart from the A400M prototype this is the first burnout of a composite wide body that I'm aware of. Composite structure must have a different flammability profile to aluminium alloy, and I wonder whether that explains the firefighting approach?
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