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JAL incident at Haneda Airport

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JAL incident at Haneda Airport

Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:06
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Originally Posted by Diesel_10
Meaning what exactly? I doubt if a fully loaded A350 hits a 20 ton Dash 8 with its NLG at speed, there was anything left of it to conduct a rescue.
They saved one person from the Dash-8, and all made it out of the A350.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:06
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EDLB
They had to fight two fires at the same time. One from a most likely full fuel Dash-8 on the runway and one from the A350 with my estimate a least 1 hour worth of fuel. We might see in the next days what (little) is left from the Dash-8. Regardless two plane on one runway is one too many. Will be interesting who screwed up here, as there are several holes in the cheese needed for this outcome. At least at some point the tower must have seen that there is a problem. Visibility was not bad, so even the A350 should have seen some lights from the Dash.
If you have no person missing in the A350 and 5 missing in the Dash it is clear where the priorities for firefighting and rescue operations are.
How do you know the state of the Coast Guard crew? A basic premise of emergency care is triage, which is to focus on those who you can save quickly and have some realistic hope of survival, not those who are in a hopeless situation.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:06
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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I'm quite alarmed by the amount of energy that was in that fire and the capabilities of the fire crew to defeat it unless it was allowed to burn out

2 fires to deal with - and I wonder if some equipment was out dealing with the fallout of the earthquake

Horrendous

But an absolutely amazing evacuation
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:06
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I haven't see all the footage yet, but it strikes me as remarkable that almost 400 people safely emerged from this...and that is credit to the design of the modern airliner. Not to mention the JAL cabin crew. Something to be celebrated.

The horror is that the Coast Guard crew seem to have perished.

Root causes will emerge later, but for now, something which could have been much, much worse has been avoided.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:08
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if all souls were accounted for, perhaps it was not worth fighting this fire, and more prudent to just let it burn itself out.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:08
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Originally Posted by flt001
All arrivals at the time were using 34L. This was the only aircraft to land on 34R which was operating departures.
They’d just restarted parallel approaches, this accident aircraft was the first in a stream of arrivals for 34R.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:09
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Coastguard MA722 fixed-wing aircraft.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:10
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The crew of DL276 must have seen it up close
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:12
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There’s YouTube footage of the A350 landing where it hits the other aircraft. Just before the moment of collision you can see the strobes of the Coast Guard aircraft. Then it’s engulfed in flames.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:14
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Originally Posted by Innaflap
2 fires to deal with - and I wonder if some equipment was out dealing with the fallout of the earthquake
the earthquake happend on the other side of the island and it is unlikely that ARFF equipment and personell would be sent. Esp. when access to the region seems to be difficult and there is no widespread fire/destruction (compared to the last "big one" that hit Japan).
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:14
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by freshgasflow
if all souls were accounted for, perhaps it was not worth fighting this fire, and more prudent to just let it burn itself out.
Absolutely...fire fighting is for preservation of life. As someone mentioned further up, you then put fire fighters themselves at undue risk if you keep going once passengers / crew are safe. Unless the fire creates additional collateral risk to life.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:14
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Originally Posted by Dct_Mopas
They’d just restarted parallel approaches, this accident aircraft was the first in a stream of arrivals for 34R.
Also still operating departures then as one aircraft was holding short
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:17
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Originally Posted by Diesel_10
Quite right too - these plastic aircraft full of Lithium ion Batteries and various pressurized accumulators should, once all pax and crew off, be cordoned off and left to burn. Also, there is residual fuel in the empty aux/tail tanks and probably 20% fuel in the main tanks.

Foam does not prevent Lion Batteries self sustaining....
Now, take into account that the battery installation on the A350 is about 1/100 the size of a medium Tesla battery, or contains the energy equivalent to 1/10.000 of a ton of jet fuel. do you really think it provides amounts of energy that even registers in a fire such as todays?

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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:17
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Dash crew update. 4 just been confirmed dead. The captain in serious state, concerning one other, no pronouncement yet.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:17
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Guessing there’s no live streams of Haneda Tower ATC?
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:25
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Diesel_10
Quite right too - these plastic aircraft full of Lithium ion Batteries and various pressurized accumulators should, once all pax and crew off, be cordoned off and left to burn. Also, there is residual fuel in the empty aux/tail tanks and probably 20% fuel in the main tanks.

Foam does not prevent Lion Batteries self sustaining....
When you say 'full of', how many are we talking about? I thought it only had two. Or do you mean passenger and crew hand held devices too.
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:25
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Former JAL pilot speculates from the quick fire spread that JAL 516 wing tank might have ripped, leaked and sparked off from engine. He thinks one or other of the pilots must have misheard ATC instructions.
In Japanese:
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/202...307221000.html
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:27
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Originally Posted by TimmyTee
Guessing there’s no live streams of Haneda Tower ATC?
https://archive.liveatc.net/rjtt/RJT...2024-0830Z.mp3
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:28
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Here are 3 screengrabs from the video in post #65.

They are each 2-3 minutes apart, in sequence:





In frame #1 you can see the evacuation ongoing. A steward stands in the doorway with a flashlite, until 1-2 minutes after the last passenger evacuates down the rear slide - so great job there.

In frame #2 you see that the evacuation is apparently complete, and that fire trucks are on the scene but sending no foam. But 1 lone fireman is approaching the LH engine.

You see him very clearly in Frame #3, spraying the LH engine by hand. Also, overall the fire is markedly reduced. Evidently it erupted later, to engulf the entire plane, but minutes after the evacuation was over.

I guess that the firemen are following SOP's, not to spray foam on an empty aircraft? Although the fire is quite small by then. The trucks did not spray foam at any time during the evacuation, so they cannot have run out of foam.

But what is the "lone fireman" doing? Has he disobeyed orders? What he is doing looks dangerous, and rather pointless, so I think something has not gone to plan.

IB
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Old 2nd Jan 2024, 10:29
  #100 (permalink)  
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This is MA720, a sister ship, while I was witnessing developmental testing in 2008



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