Ryanair Nosegear Collapse
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im not sure it’s so much to do with a tailwind landing, more to do with DUB now has 3 runways none of which face the predominant wind direction. And sure that’s not unique (eg LHR) but in my experience the wind in DUB tends to be more severe for more of the time.
that Ryanair landing looks more like they forget to continue to fly the wing after touchdown.
that Ryanair landing looks more like they forget to continue to fly the wing after touchdown.
On touch-down, the spoilers extent, and gone is your lift. Though, the resolution is somewhat low to be able to see the spoilers extended and/or the aileron input.
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The windsock at the very start of the recording seems to show a straight sock, without fluttering.
Running the YT again on a wide screen, looking at the details, some 10 m above the runway, the airplane rapidly starts to sink, arrested some 3 m above the runway with significant pitch-up, with wobbling wings (indication of a near stall), subsequently seemingly a heavy touch down on first the left main gear. And then banking to the right, seemingly due to the heavy touch down with bouncing on the left main gear, with limited lift available from the wings. Maybe, the spoilers saved the day, destroying the lift on both wings, giving the airplane the opportunity to settle.
With such an amount of wind, the vertical shearing (expressed in speed units, not percentage wise) might be significant, too.
from Avherald
So the aircraft is in the hangar since the morning after the incident, the two engines are off it and both are being replaced due to the amount of debris/FOD that was ingested into them. There's a nice dent in the fuselage below the Capt side and also a nice big hole too. The inboard flaps on Engine one side have been removed too due to damage.
So the word so far is, now take this with a pinch of salt, that the flare was too early, the aircraft bounced, in reaction to it the PF pushed the nose down, the nose gear impacted the runway burst the tires, the aircraft veered left, was brought back onto the centerline and she grinded the rest of the way to a stop.
my first solo I bounced, pushed the stick forward and got into a PIO becausn I had never been taught what to do. My last flight with the owner of a pa28 lookalike but better ended up with the nose gear pushed back into the fuselage blocking the rudder..he had more than 1’000 hours on type..never taught what to do with a bounce. My hands were on my knees and I wasn’t quick enough to stop him although I did manage to stop two successive attempts at killing us.
Too many pilots are not taught what to do with demonstrations…probably because of the fear or incompetence of the instructor..from experience.
So the aircraft is in the hangar since the morning after the incident, the two engines are off it and both are being replaced due to the amount of debris/FOD that was ingested into them. There's a nice dent in the fuselage below the Capt side and also a nice big hole too. The inboard flaps on Engine one side have been removed too due to damage.
So the word so far is, now take this with a pinch of salt, that the flare was too early, the aircraft bounced, in reaction to it the PF pushed the nose down, the nose gear impacted the runway burst the tires, the aircraft veered left, was brought back onto the centerline and she grinded the rest of the way to a stop.
my first solo I bounced, pushed the stick forward and got into a PIO becausn I had never been taught what to do. My last flight with the owner of a pa28 lookalike but better ended up with the nose gear pushed back into the fuselage blocking the rudder..he had more than 1’000 hours on type..never taught what to do with a bounce. My hands were on my knees and I wasn’t quick enough to stop him although I did manage to stop two successive attempts at killing us.
Too many pilots are not taught what to do with demonstrations…probably because of the fear or incompetence of the instructor..from experience.
from Avherald
So the aircraft is in the hangar since the morning after the incident, the two engines are off it and both are being replaced due to the amount of debris/FOD that was ingested into them. There's a nice dent in the fuselage below the Capt side and also a nice big hole too. The inboard flaps on Engine one side have been removed too due to damage.
So the word so far is, now take this with a pinch of salt, that the flare was too early, the aircraft bounced, in reaction to it the PF pushed the nose down, the nose gear impacted the runway burst the tires, the aircraft veered left, was brought back onto the centerline and she grinded the rest of the way to a stop.
my first solo I bounced, pushed the stick forward and got into a PIO becausn I had never been taught what to do. My last flight with the owner of a pa28 lookalike but better ended up with the nose gear pushed back into the fuselage blocking the rudder..he had more than 1’000 hours on type..never taught what to do with a bounce. My hands were on my knees and I wasn’t quick enough to stop him although I did manage to stop two successive attempts at killing us.
Too many pilots are not taught what to do with demonstrations…probably because of the fear or incompetence of the instructor..from experience.
So the aircraft is in the hangar since the morning after the incident, the two engines are off it and both are being replaced due to the amount of debris/FOD that was ingested into them. There's a nice dent in the fuselage below the Capt side and also a nice big hole too. The inboard flaps on Engine one side have been removed too due to damage.
So the word so far is, now take this with a pinch of salt, that the flare was too early, the aircraft bounced, in reaction to it the PF pushed the nose down, the nose gear impacted the runway burst the tires, the aircraft veered left, was brought back onto the centerline and she grinded the rest of the way to a stop.
my first solo I bounced, pushed the stick forward and got into a PIO becausn I had never been taught what to do. My last flight with the owner of a pa28 lookalike but better ended up with the nose gear pushed back into the fuselage blocking the rudder..he had more than 1’000 hours on type..never taught what to do with a bounce. My hands were on my knees and I wasn’t quick enough to stop him although I did manage to stop two successive attempts at killing us.
Too many pilots are not taught what to do with demonstrations…probably because of the fear or incompetence of the instructor..from experience.
Second paragraph: Every pilot from student pre first solo to PPL and commercial airline captain should know what causes and how to recover from a PIO. Anyone who doesn't has been exposed to substandard flight training.
from Avherald
So the aircraft is in the hangar since the morning after the incident, the two engines are off it and both are being replaced due to the amount of debris/FOD that was ingested into them. There's a nice dent in the fuselage below the Capt side and also a nice big hole too. The inboard flaps on Engine one side have been removed too due to damage.
So the word so far is, now take this with a pinch of salt, that the flare was too early, the aircraft bounced, in reaction to it the PF pushed the nose down, the nose gear impacted the runway burst the tires, the aircraft veered left, was brought back onto the centerline and she grinded the rest of the way to a stop.
So the aircraft is in the hangar since the morning after the incident, the two engines are off it and both are being replaced due to the amount of debris/FOD that was ingested into them. There's a nice dent in the fuselage below the Capt side and also a nice big hole too. The inboard flaps on Engine one side have been removed too due to damage.
So the word so far is, now take this with a pinch of salt, that the flare was too early, the aircraft bounced, in reaction to it the PF pushed the nose down, the nose gear impacted the runway burst the tires, the aircraft veered left, was brought back onto the centerline and she grinded the rest of the way to a stop.
If the early flare theory is correct then that could well be a result of the strong, quartering tailwind. This has been previously refered to with reference to DUB's operating preference due taxi way constraints.
Higher rate of descent plus changed perspective and differing body angle led to a misjudgement. Hopefully the crew involved can get some refresher training to erase the ghosts and Dublin airport can get it's act together? Or I am being terribly naive?
Thanks blind pew for bringing the thread back to the incident and away from some people's concept of landing with a full stall (a 737 is not a C152, Widescreen) from a completely different flight last year.
If the early flare theory is correct then that could well be a result of the strong, quartering tailwind. This has been previously refered to with reference to DUB's operating preference due taxi way constraints.
Higher rate of descent plus changed perspective and differing body angle led to a misjudgement. Hopefully the crew involved can get some refresher training to erase the ghosts and Dublin airport can get it's act together? Or I am being terribly naive?
If the early flare theory is correct then that could well be a result of the strong, quartering tailwind. This has been previously refered to with reference to DUB's operating preference due taxi way constraints.
Higher rate of descent plus changed perspective and differing body angle led to a misjudgement. Hopefully the crew involved can get some refresher training to erase the ghosts and Dublin airport can get it's act together? Or I am being terribly naive?
Last edited by Confusious; 15th Apr 2023 at 21:29.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with all of that. Pilots are trained thoroughly to cope with tailwind and crosswind landings at the aircraft limits. DUB ATC/OPS have no blame in this whatsoever - The option to refuse a clearance of any description or execute a go-around rests solely with the pilots. IF inexperience ('misjudgement') was a contributing factor then perhaps Ryanair should make a conscious effort not to roster its pool of very inexperienced F/Os with their inexperienced low hour Captains.
Don't know what planet you are on but the only deliberate training up to crosswind limits was with VC10 command courses flying up to keflavic..I certainly never was trained in landing at max crosswind nor tailwind.
My first real crosswind landing after training was onto the cross runway into Dublin when I stuffed in a boot full of rudder but was behind with my aileron inputs which nearly led to two wing tip dings before sir grabbed it.
The only approach and landing in 22 years I witnessed was into Paris with the chopper training captain on the fleet..
We were given the wind over our limit thrice..After the last report, not only did I state that's its over our limit but I said over the legal limit..he took it (below 700ft) and then he took off some of the drift..which ended with me trying to get him back on the centre line..we arrived..twit.
My first real crosswind landing after training was onto the cross runway into Dublin when I stuffed in a boot full of rudder but was behind with my aileron inputs which nearly led to two wing tip dings before sir grabbed it.
The only approach and landing in 22 years I witnessed was into Paris with the chopper training captain on the fleet..
We were given the wind over our limit thrice..After the last report, not only did I state that's its over our limit but I said over the legal limit..he took it (below 700ft) and then he took off some of the drift..which ended with me trying to get him back on the centre line..we arrived..twit.
Don't know what planet you are on but the only deliberate training up to crosswind limits was with VC10 command courses flying up to keflavic..I certainly never was trained in landing at max crosswind nor tailwind.
My first real crosswind landing after training was onto the cross runway into Dublin when I stuffed in a boot full of rudder but was behind with my aileron inputs which nearly led to two wing tip dings before sir grabbed it.
The only approach and landing in 22 years I witnessed was into Paris with the chopper training captain on the fleet..
We were given the wind over our limit thrice..After the last report, not only did I state that's its over our limit but I said over the legal limit..he took it (below 700ft) and then he took off some of the drift..which ended with me trying to get him back on the centre line..we arrived..twit.
My first real crosswind landing after training was onto the cross runway into Dublin when I stuffed in a boot full of rudder but was behind with my aileron inputs which nearly led to two wing tip dings before sir grabbed it.
The only approach and landing in 22 years I witnessed was into Paris with the chopper training captain on the fleet..
We were given the wind over our limit thrice..After the last report, not only did I state that's its over our limit but I said over the legal limit..he took it (below 700ft) and then he took off some of the drift..which ended with me trying to get him back on the centre line..we arrived..twit.
Simulators are only as good as the programming often on what investigators think happen.
I nearly ended up in the black forest in a new md81 after a max take off on rwy 34 zrh after we hit a massive temperature inversion with a negative windshear of 23 knots reported by a mate on a 310 who had just taken off on 28. The skipper went for the recent procedure for downdraft of pitch and full power which didn't work as we had lost too much speed..I overrode the stick to descend and accelerate.
I was taught to forecast world meteorology in 1970..I've flown most civil types including paragliding off slieve binnian today..one of the guys crashed into the slope. The atmosphere is unpredictable..if your employer if it is the DAA,.was serious then they should invest in a geo stationary drone which would give soundings between the surface and say 1500ft. I've tried to get a cheap small one for safety for paragliding.
I once hit wake turbulence on short finals on 28L lhr with a light headwind from a 747 a long way in front..I guessed that there was a tailwind but sea breeze at low level ..I decided to land long but the skipper overruled and we went around..same thing on next approach..this time he allowed me to set up a normal 3 degree approach with an aiming point further in. Whilst highly trained our company had a common sense approach to anomalies that happen.At that stage I had 12 years plus rhs jets.. one can't expect young pilots having been taught on machines using binary codes to understand the real world.
Simulation has its place.but...
I nearly ended up in the black forest in a new md81 after a max take off on rwy 34 zrh after we hit a massive temperature inversion with a negative windshear of 23 knots reported by a mate on a 310 who had just taken off on 28. The skipper went for the recent procedure for downdraft of pitch and full power which didn't work as we had lost too much speed..I overrode the stick to descend and accelerate.
I was taught to forecast world meteorology in 1970..I've flown most civil types including paragliding off slieve binnian today..one of the guys crashed into the slope. The atmosphere is unpredictable..if your employer if it is the DAA,.was serious then they should invest in a geo stationary drone which would give soundings between the surface and say 1500ft. I've tried to get a cheap small one for safety for paragliding.
I once hit wake turbulence on short finals on 28L lhr with a light headwind from a 747 a long way in front..I guessed that there was a tailwind but sea breeze at low level ..I decided to land long but the skipper overruled and we went around..same thing on next approach..this time he allowed me to set up a normal 3 degree approach with an aiming point further in. Whilst highly trained our company had a common sense approach to anomalies that happen.At that stage I had 12 years plus rhs jets.. one can't expect young pilots having been taught on machines using binary codes to understand the real world.
Simulation has its place.but...
N4790P
Bounced landings is an area which is poorly simulated in just about every data pack despite the FAA requiring this area to be addressed on MD11 and ATRs especially many years ago.
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Effectively, what blind pew quotes from AVHerald (be it correct or not) is, in my opinion, exactly what I wrote about. Running out of lift, when having some significant height above the runway (not wanting to discuss landing technics), which is, whatever airplane you fly, not such a healthy situation. Either a hard/bounced landing, or PIO with a high risk of an initial terra firma nose-wheel touchdown, something in development, but in the end avoided, in the YT example, I gave.
First paragraph: Thats an unofficial source and nobody knows who 'Boeingdriver40' is.
Second paragraph: Every pilot from student pre first solo to PPL and commercial airline captain should know what causes and how to recover from a PIO. Anyone who doesn't has been exposed to substandard flight training.
Second paragraph: Every pilot from student pre first solo to PPL and commercial airline captain should know what causes and how to recover from a PIO. Anyone who doesn't has been exposed to substandard flight training.
, fire, etc.Regarding the "unofficial" source: Yep, unofficial, though the amount of detail provided suggests, it's probably no fantasy, but reality. Not to say, it does match with the Ryanair policy to not screw around with questionable decisions around the safety of its hardware: Do it properly (Ryanair fully understands the business impact of a crash, due to sloppy Ryanair work).
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First paragraph: Thats an unofficial source and nobody knows who 'Boeingdriver40' is.
Second paragraph: Every pilot from student pre first solo to PPL and commercial airline captain should know what causes and how to recover from a PIO. Anyone who doesn't has been exposed to substandard flight training.
Second paragraph: Every pilot from student pre first solo to PPL and commercial airline captain should know what causes and how to recover from a PIO. Anyone who doesn't has been exposed to substandard flight training.
