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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 28th Jan 2019, 01:50
  #741 (permalink)  
 
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common purpose - contd.

Originally Posted by mryan75 View Post


and check this one out, and this guy had an ATP. And he still needed common purpose with his passengers for the operation ey ran (which the FAA determined he did not have).:

Thanks for that link, it was very informative. It seems that FAA has a stick called "common purpose" that they are prepared to wield when it suits them but it is not linked to any regulation that a private, commercial, or even ATP rated pilot could be expected to know about. 61.113(c) does not mention "common purpose" yet FAA uses it as a reference for their common purpose interpretation.

If they want a rule for pilots to follow it would seem reasonable for it to be included in the regulations that pilots are expected to know about.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 03:21
  #742 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford View Post
dalgetty , might be best to steer clear of air crash investigation!

With apologies, the quantity of errors and assumptions in your post are too numerous to list.

I will, though, do the first one. There is no such thing as an IFR rating, it's simply an IR.

Sorry!
+1.

I have a friend who is very experienced ex Canadian TSB investigator. He tells me that when the actual cause of an accident is determined, it rarely is what everybody originally thought it was. Or was sure it was.

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Old 28th Jan 2019, 04:36
  #743 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cncpc View Post
+1.

I have a friend who is very experienced ex Canadian TSB investigator. He tells me that when the actual cause of an accident is determined, it rarely is what everybody originally thought it was. Or was sure it was.
i dont think recent history supports the broader points. There have been many accidents recently where the basics of what people assume within the first days perfectly align to the basics of a final report several years later. There is little doubt that this accidents cause will focus upon weather and the pilots ratings and the aircrafts equipment with the sub-theme of discussion around the commercials
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 06:26
  #744 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hot 'n' High View Post
Eutychus, I suspect you are in very good company - even amongst the Pros on here. I think you'll find all the Aviation professionals who have posted on/read this sad, sad thread, no matter how many years in the industry, will also have shaken their heads in disbelief and sadness on a significant number of occasions reading about this ......
FWIW, yes, count me in, ATPL, 40’ish years of flying professionally but never in this “niche area” of the industry and just appalled at what I now discover has been going on.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 06:44
  #745 (permalink)  
 
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I do think we should be careful as a million assumptions slowly become 'fact' on this thread.

Whilst the whole duck thing is generally valid (walks like, looks like etc.), there is an absence of hard fact and fast amounts of conjecture...

Just sayin'

PS We're not the only ones reading this thread, and two people (with families) died...
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 07:11
  #746 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cncpc View Post
I have a friend who is very experienced ex Canadian TSB investigator. He tells me that when the actual cause of an accident is determined, it rarely is what everybody originally thought it was. Or was sure it was.
Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't; Cork and Chalgrove are two examples of relatively recent incidents where this forum basically had the primary cause nailed on day 1.

I'd agree that rigorous and thorough accident investigation makes a substantial contribution to air safety and I'm not suggesting for a moment that we shouldn't do all we reasonably can in this, or indeed any other case.

That said, it seems from what's been posted that there are many things that were wrong in this case that will remain wrong whatever the primary cause. In my opinion, even finding wreckage showing incontrovertible proof of catastrophic engine failure won't make conducting this flight in the manner it was conducted any more of a reasonable decision.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 08:24
  #747 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford View Post
I do think we should be careful as a million assumptions slowly become 'fact' on this thread.

Whilst the whole duck thing is generally valid (walks like, looks like etc.), there is an absence of hard fact and fast amounts of conjecture...

Just sayin'

PS We're not the only ones reading this thread, and two people (with families) died...

Ironic though that before signing for Cardiff Sala got a Corporate jet and a Commercial Pilot , after signing he got a Plumber and a Piper
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 08:36
  #748 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by testpanel View Post
A night rating is there for a reason.....
An Instrument rating is there for a reason.

An Instrument rating is a very useful rating for those with limited experience.
Off course city lights may be of help..... only if you know what to look for..
But we are now flying VMC.
If this "pilot" ended up at (a dark) night (over sea, with no horizon) with none of the above ratings/endorsements....

its suiside.....
Thank you for your words of wisdom, by the way, Suicide has only one s.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 08:48
  #749 (permalink)  
 
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Echo Romeo/ test panel

Suicide is something a person decides on and kills them self, flying by night in IMC without the appropriate training is not suicide it is stupidity.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 08:54
  #750 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by red9 View Post
Ironic though that before signing for Cardiff Sala got a Corporate jet and a Commercial Pilot , after signing he got a Plumber and a Piper
Ironic indeed. And probably something to do with the poor lad agreeing to the hairbrained penny pinching fatal scheme.
It’s clear from his voice message that he expected somewhat better arrangements. What a pity he didn’t refuse to board the thing.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 09:41
  #751 (permalink)  
 
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There is of course some missing text or conversation, but did not McKay say to Sala : it's the SAME Company?

The question here of course what was McKay referring to? The same company that took Sala to Cardiff the first time?

I have tried to go trough most of the posts, and might have missed this, but did they Eclipse also fly him back to France after the signing for Cardiff? Or how did he return to France after the trip on the Eclipse?

I am curious to know what company is referring to when he says, it's the SAME company.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 09:46
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There is of course some missing text or conversation, but did not McKay say to Sala : it's the SAME Company?

The question here of course what was McKay referring to? The same company that took Sala to Cardiff the first time?
It's all supposition and guesswork but from he voicemail and messages I think at this point he (as in Sala) had asked to where to go to get access to the aircraft and the reply means the same ground handling agent at Nantes as before.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 09:49
  #753 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
There is of course some missing text or conversation, but did not McKay say to Sala : it's the SAME Company?

The question here of course what was McKay referring to? The same company that took Sala to Cardiff the first time?

I have tried to go trough most of the posts, and might have missed this, but did they Eclipse also fly him back to France after the signing for Cardiff? Or how did he return to France after the trip on the Eclipse?

I am curious to know what company is referring to when he says, it's the SAME company.
He returned to NTS on the fated PA46 which may or may not have flown via GCI. The original plan was that it should.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 09:59
  #754 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
From the BBC Vid of DH (2015) it looks like a BK KT97 (immediately below the Strike Finder) which is Mode C

Nothing to say it didn't get an upgrade between then and now.

ELT circled in red from earlier post.
N264DB is in the Airframes dot org database with a Mode S Hex code: A28E26 (ICAO24). This strongly suggests that it was Mode S equipped.
None of the tracking sites have Mode S data though, while most have good coverage in the area. Mode S not switched on / unserviceable?
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 10:12
  #755 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at this thread, the sidebar advertising on my screen currently is all for Wingly. Cardiff-Jersy flights £108 per seat, Cardiff-Cherbourg for £139 per seat. Not the best place for such ads at the moment.

SND
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 10:12
  #756 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Daysleeper View Post
It's all supposition and guesswork but from he voicemail and messages I think at this point he (as in Sala) had asked to where to go to get access to the aircraft and the reply means the same ground handling agent at Nantes as before.
No - I believe he was referring to the group of pilots that flew him around and their " company "
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 10:19
  #757 (permalink)  
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Mode S not switched on / unserviceable?
unlikely to take off and/or enter class D airspace without a working transponder I would say , especially at night ., not to mention entering UK airspace afterwards... Only possibility is it went u/s or inadvertently turned to SBY in flight ( still happens ) But you would at least notice its departure from NTS on FR24 then.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 10:25
  #758 (permalink)  
 
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I'm getting the impression that general view on this forum is that this type of service conforms completely to the principle of jam-pot economics i.e. if the customer is stupid enough to select this type of service provider then they deserve all they get.

When the death toll is restricted to a few footballers, jockeys and businessmen some may deem that acceptable.

What happens when these cowboys get legitimised by their omnipresence in the market and they start spreading their wings to providing other services involving the wider public e.g. the medical recovery service.

How would fancy her-in-doors or one of the kids being transported, sight-unseen, by one of these characters.

Rank Amateur.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 11:27
  #759 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NAROBS View Post
I'm getting the impression that general view on this forum is that this type of service conforms completely to the principle of jam-pot economics i.e. if the customer is stupid enough to select this type of service provider then they deserve all they get .
Then maybe you should try reading it.

You'll find that that the consensus is the opposite. That the public should be protected from being able to make uninformed decisions to become involved in this shady business of ‘sharing’.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 11:34
  #760 (permalink)  
 
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NAROBS No, it's not saying that - but there is a mingling of what is illegal, and what people might not like but is legal.

Like lumping weed and tobacco in together, I suppose...

Some sharing is shady business, some is not.
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