Light Aircraft Crash in Oxfordshire
Avoid imitations
We don't have pre- canned low level IFR routes in here so far as I know except for departure from major airports -eg. the "Juliet" departure from Luton and possibly heli routes within the London CTR/CTA.
Radar units will sometimes be able to provide a radar service in Class G airspace (very often with limitations) but below MSA, terrain clearance is solely the pilot's responsibility and ATC will normally remind pilots of that fact.
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There are definitely no IFR heli routes in the London area!
Radar units will sometimes be able to provide a radar service in Class G airspace (very often with limitations) but below MSA, terrain clearance is solely the pilot's responsibility and ATC will normally remind pilots of that fact.
Radar units will sometimes be able to provide a radar service in Class G airspace (very often with limitations) but below MSA, terrain clearance is solely the pilot's responsibility and ATC will normally remind pilots of that fact.
Would that be the totality of his options for the flight?
Avoid imitations
PB24, basically, yes (although I'm not in a position to confirm your airway route) or alternatively, below the TMA it's possible to fly not below 1,000 ft above the tallest obstacle within 5nm of track, which is slightly less than 2400 feet in that area.
Well he obviously was at the point of the accident, and I've not heard of any report of a mayday call - which an experienced pilot might reasonably have made if things had gone wrong and he had the height, and thus time, to make it.
None of which is more than circumstantial of course.
G
None of which is more than circumstantial of course.
G
Destination was Chalgrove just a few miles West of the crash site. Literally about 25 miles from Turweston. 39 or so by road. Maybe doing some kind of cloudbreak technique using GPS onto a Westerly final? Who knows.
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This is my part of the world and I've flown in the area many times. The mast isn't 1000' or anything like it; it's only a little over 300' AGL and tbh if low enough to worry about hitting it, I'd be equally worried about hitting one of the many trees along the ridge.
Would there be a METAR for Benson at the time of the accident? Low lying fog is notoriously patchy but I'd expect conditions to be similar to those at Chalgrove.
Not sure if they have automatic reporting/someone to take readings on a Sunday.
Without inferring anything specific, I'll repeat something I've posted before: descent below MSA in IMC whilst not on a published approach procedure has killed a lot of pilots, some highly experienced.
Would there be a METAR for Benson at the time of the accident? Low lying fog is notoriously patchy but I'd expect conditions to be similar to those at Chalgrove.
Not sure if they have automatic reporting/someone to take readings on a Sunday.
Without inferring anything specific, I'll repeat something I've posted before: descent below MSA in IMC whilst not on a published approach procedure has killed a lot of pilots, some highly experienced.
Last edited by Sillert,V.I.; 18th Jan 2017 at 17:03.
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Without inferring anything specific, I'll repeat something I've posted before: descent below MSA in IMC whilst not on a published approach procedure has killed a lot of pilots, some highly experienced.
**I am not implying that this was in any way the cause or part cause of the accident mentioned here - just a reply to the previous poster - I'll wait for the AAIB for the verdict**
Without inferring anything specific in relation to this accident, I'll repeat something I've posted before: descent below MSA in IMC whilst not on a published approach procedure has killed a lot of pilots, some highly experienced.
I wonder if the Benson ILS was radiating at the time? If so, it could have guided the aircraft to a point overhead Chalgrove at about 1000ft agl.
I too am very familiar with the area, having lived there for many years before moving to France. I agree with the remarks of others about fog, orographic cloud, etc.
I remember a Cessna 182 crashed in a nearby location in the 1990s on the way to Booker. Bad weather was, I believe, a factor.
Very sad.
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About 5 nm.
Also when you fly past the Stokenchurch mast, you don't see too many similarly tall trees! It's about 330ft tall!!
Also when you fly past the Stokenchurch mast, you don't see too many similarly tall trees! It's about 330ft tall!!
Last edited by Arfur Dent; 18th Jan 2017 at 18:06.
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Not commentating on this accident - we must wait for information. But many accidents have resulted from people who had "designed" instrument let downs themselves and had used them many many times before successfully.
Not sure what aids would be available at Benson but I would have though it would have been possible to set something up using the CPT VOR, WCO NDB and GPS.
Not sure what aids would be available at Benson but I would have though it would have been possible to set something up using the CPT VOR, WCO NDB and GPS.
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Not commentating on this accident - we must wait for information. But many accidents have resulted from people who had "designed" instrument let downs themselves and had used them many many times before successfully.
Shades of Graham Hill at Elstree???
Mind you, I have done as suggested; let down on the ILS at LTN and followed the M1 to cut off to Elstree.
Shades of Graham Hill at Elstree???
Mind you, I have done as suggested; let down on the ILS at LTN and followed the M1 to cut off to Elstree.
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Shades of Graham Hill at Elstree???
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Graham Hill came over the top of Barnet, apparently misidentified the lights of Borehamwood for Elstree and clipped the trees at Arkley Golf Course - I saw the wreckage the next day
It's been said previously, ATCOs at LTN were expecting him to divert to them, but 'pressonitis' got him
It's been said previously, ATCOs at LTN were expecting him to divert to them, but 'pressonitis' got him
Graham Hill came over the top of Barnet, apparently misidentified the lights of Borehamwood for Elstree and clipped the trees at Arkley Golf Course - I saw the wreckage the next day
It's been said previously, ATCOs at LTN were expecting him to divert to them, but 'pressonitis' got him
It's been said previously, ATCOs at LTN were expecting him to divert to them, but 'pressonitis' got him
Re this accident for info here is wx at Benson around the time of the accident.
SA 15/01/2017 14:50->
METAR EGUB 151450Z AUTO 29007KT 9999 // BKN006/// BKN014///
08/08 Q1021=
SA 15/01/2017 13:50->
METAR EGUB 151350Z AUTO 29007KT 9999 // BKN008/// BKN015///
08/07 Q1021=
Cloud base on METARs are above aerodrome level and Benson is 203 ft AMSL so the cloud base there would be in the order of 800 to 900 ft QNH. From the information I have gleaned so far the accident site would have been about 800 ft amsl.
As has been said we will have to wait for AIB for any conclusions.
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Turweston, approximate crash location, and Chalgrove.
Chalgrove, approximate crash location, and the Stokenchurch Mast.
